The Big 3 (Naruto, Luffy and Ichigo) vs The Dynamic Duo (Goku Ul and Vegeta UE) Stats equal!

[Fezzih_007]

I see this on Reddit, so i got a little curious if in this site is a stomp or not.

Stats equalized
Everyone start already transformed in they lastest strongest form (Gear 5, Ultra Instict goku etc..) excluding Naruto, who is not on Baryon Mode for this fight.
Manga version of Goku and Vegeta is used
They fight on the back of a Enormou flying whale that is super strong, so it can hold they weight without dying. And every so often it spouts a geyser of steam from its blowhole while meteorites fall all around.
They start 10 meters apart from each other.
There's is civilazation on the planet, so Goku can use Spirit bomb.
Reiatsu Crush is restricted for this match

Votes:
The Big Three with ease:

Goku and Vegeta duo is the best:

Inco:

 

[RoggerReggor]

Lovely matchup. But I don't think stats can be equalized (except for speed). Quoting from Versus Thread Rules:

Match-ups with equalized statistics (with the exception of speed) are not allowed, as they turn the entire tiering system unnecessary.

This is probably for Fun and Games I guess.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Lovely matchup. But I don't think stats can be equalized (except for speed). Quoting from Versus Thread Rules:

This is probably for Fun and Games I guess.

Oh whoospie, i trought it was in Fun and Games

 

[Phoenks]

Does soul crush work on Goku and Vegeta?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Does soul crush work on Goku and Vegeta?

Does a soul destruction resistance protect them from soul crush

 

[Hellscream]

Soul crush gg

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Depends, can Goku and Vegeta resist Ichigo’s layered Soul Hax and Naruto’s Rasenshuriken hax and can Ichigo and Naruto resist Goku’s incomplete and especially Vegeta’s more potent Hakai. I know Ichigo’s soul hax and resistances is layered but idk how layered, and he resists deconstruction and EE. Idk if the wiki counts Naruto interacting with TSOs as a resistance or not, too many profiles to check through on mobile lmao

If the Big 3 can take out Vegeta with their hax before he can get amped, the 3 of them have a good chance jumping Goku. Stats = makes MUI difficult to deal with but Luffy’s Future Sight is probably better than MUI’s Instinctive Reactions, Naruto has his Sage Mode senses to help, and Ichigo has instinctive reactions and analytical prediction of his own. Naruto being able to spam thousands of clones with = speed, Ichigo’s canonically spamming flash step as a part of his fighting style and Luffy’s Obs Haki and Future Sight while jumping him 3 (thousand) V1 makes me favor them, especially since Goku doesn’t use Hakai in character though he has a deconstruction move which Ichigo and Naruto should resist

On top of Naruto and Ichigo having in character spammable AOE nukes that are their go to moves in character

This is ignoring Reiatsu Crush for the sake of the match being fun

 

[Ryuga21]

What stops Vegeta from spamming EE on all of them?

 

[That_moron2]

What stops Vegeta from spamming EE on all of them?

Doesn't Naruto resist EE?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Depends, can Goku and Vegeta resist Ichigo’s layered Soul Hax

No. That's what i said to my friend btw.

 

[Fezzih_007]

If the Big 3 can take out Vegeta with their hax before he can get amped

Not sure if they can do that before Vegeta just hard counters both Naruto and Luffy with Spirit fission.

Vegeta can use Spirit fission to separate Kurama from Naruto, and he gonna lose ALL his powers, and can possibly do the same with Luffy Akuma no Mi.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Doesn't Naruto resist EE?

Hakai does Mind Soul and Body while TSB only does body iirc

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

Latest and strongest form for Ichigo should be his Merged Hollow Form key
RC is restricted, but he should still have his passive from Hollow Physiology
Which would be Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])
Unless ofc you also restrict that

 

[Fezzih_007]

Latest and strongest form for Ichigo should be his Merged Hollow Form key
RC is restricted, but he should still have his passive from Hollow Physiology
Which would be Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])
Unless ofc you also restrict that

Yeah, i don't think that gonna be nescessary,

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

What stops Vegeta from spamming EE on all of them?

Ichigo should resist them

possibly Resistance to Existence Erasure (Can touch Aizen despite his Reiatsu erasing beings in close range)

resisted Aizen who has

Possibly Passive Existence Erasure (Aizen's Reiatsu is so potent that things that get near his body are erased)

 

[Cass5373]

Latest and strongest form for Ichigo should be his Merged Hollow Form key
RC is restricted, but he should still have his passive from Hollow Physiology
Which would be Corruption (Type 2: which causes Poison Manipulation/Power Reduction/Death Manipulation) (Hollow's passive existence/Reiryoku is innately poisonous to those without antibodies against them, just being around them causes these people's souls to erode away and die, as well as causing their spiritual powers to decrease[10])
Unless ofc you also restrict that

How long does it take to take effect? From what I understand it should be with equal statistics because otherwise Goku and Vegeta would climb much higher much faster.

 

[Cass5373]

Ichigo should resist them

resisted Aizen who has

It says that it deletes things and the example is given of Aizen deleting an object.
The hakai erases the soul, mind and matter, reducing it to zero.

 

[Cass5373]

Isn't Vegeta's basic ki attack the hakai when he uses the UE?

 

[Hellscream]

It says that it deletes things and the example is given of Aizen deleting an object.
The hakai erases the soul, mind and matter, reducing it to zero.

That's what Aizen's soul crush does as well

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Does soul crush work on Goku and Vegeta?

There are arguments, since Hakai's EE that affects souls is basically just one of the effects of the energy of destruction, so consequently other energy affect the soul, which would make a more comprehensive resistance to the manipulation of the soul. But this hasn't gone to a crt yet, but this is fun and games so you can take it into consideration if you want.

Depends, can Goku and Vegeta resist Ichigo’s layered Soul Hax

Bleach doesn't have a tiers blog or go through the review thread, so for now it doesn't have tiers. Anyway, it's fun and games so I think you might not take that into consideration.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump lol

 

[Killerdrone123]

Just gonna say this but goku has some insane level of analytical prediction he can literally predicts a guy who can skip so we can clearly say that he has more than enough battle iq,skill and experience to counter luffy precog

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

both has genius in combat
so eh
idk

 

[Padaruyos]

Can't Naruto create an absurd amount of clones?

Goku's a genius and all but even with MUI I doubt he's handling two thousand Narutos all on his level.

Not to mention that MUI stamina even at this point is still atrocious, he can't maintain that power for long. At some point we'll end up with Goku having to downgrade his power to TUI or worse, SSB. Now Goku loses hard to any of the three.

Vegeta would have to hard carry this, since UE seems to be better in stamina than MUI. Tho again if Vegeta just so happens to use any of his haxes on a clone of Naruto, Naruto will realize what are Vegeta's powers and avoid them.

FSF requires Vegeta to land a direct hit on Naruto, the real one. He's not separating Kurama from Naruto until he finds the real Naruto amongst the thousands Naruto creates. Vegeta even in UE at this point is still not all that good at using Hakai, so I don't think he can just EE Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, right off the bat like that. As far as I know the three all have powerful sensory abilities (especially Luffy's, who can just outright see the future)

Another problem for Goku and Vegeta here is that the way the match is setup, Goku and Vegeta are at their peak of power, while the HST has lots of stat amps they have yet to use. Naruto has Boil Release, which is a one shot level AP boost with a significant speed boost as well (Boil Release Naruto > Kaguya's Vacuum Fist > (one shot) Sasuke's Perfect Susano'o = Kurama Avatar > Naruto). The Asura Avatar is even more powerful than that. Luffy has Haoshoku Infusion, a power boost even greater than Gear 4th Boundman, Ichigo has a ton of stat amping techniques of his own too. Ironically, the DB chars gets outstatted here. UE Vegeta can only grow stronger by taking damage (leaving him open to one shots), while MUI Goku will only get weaker as the fight goes on.

I think Naruto Ichigo and Luffy has better chance at winning this.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Clones can be dealt with ki blasts barrage or goku could spam destructo discs to deal with clones and destructo discs also provide a big amp iirc krillin powerlevel was 13000 but while using destructo discs it was 75000 so it is more than 5× amp also vegeta would just need a big hakai ball blast to wipe out the clones plus they can protect themselves by using ki barriers also destruction energy users can cover themselves in destruction aura just like how toppo did which could also save him from attacks by erasing them.

Goku can also use deconstruction by just pointing his hands towards the target plus vegeta is more skilled than naruto so obviously landing a hit on him isn't a big deal also goku can also catch them offguard by using solar flare

 

[Cass5373]

The attack range of Goku and Vegeta's attacks could easily encompass the area in which Naruto and his clones are.

Instinctive reaction, analytical prediction, barrier, light giant, light manipulation, perception manipulation, paralysis, teleportation, resistance to extrasensory perception, deconstruction, telekinesis, creation of illusions, BFR and resistance to analysis information would make Goku a very difficult opponent for Naruto while at that moment Vegeta could use the forced partition and the same with Luffy only with some other ability of Goku that would not work on Luffy, the only real problem is Ichigo with his soul Crush which I still don't have much of an idea of how it works.

The statistics should be the same because Goku and Vegeta would climb much higher than the rest during the fight.

 

[Padaruyos]

The statistics should be the same because Goku and Vegeta would climb much higher than the rest during the fight.

Vegeta would grow stronger true. But MUI Goku only gets weaker and his UI becomes less accurate over time, we were shown this during Goku vs Granola fight.

 

[Cass5373]

Vegeta would grow stronger true. But MUI Goku only gets weaker and his UI becomes less accurate over time, we were shown this during Goku vs Granola fight.

That was at the beginning of the Granola saga, it is not known if True UI has those same weaknesses. It is also with equal statistics because Vegeta would continue to climb much more than the rest.

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Just gonna say this but goku has some insane level of analytical prediction he can literally predicts a guy who can skip so we can clearly say that he has more than enough battle iq,skill and experience to counter luffy precog

Technically speaking, don't all analytical prediction users have to at least predict not where their opponent is, but where their opponent will be in short timeframes into the future? But either way, Goku fought people with comparable combat intelligence to Ichigo who don't have their own analytical prediction and didn't style on them. In fact, Vegeta and Ichigo's combat intelligence is comparable, and Vegeta managed to beat Goku in their most recent showing, Base to Base at least. And Vegeta doesn't have analytical prediction of his own.

Ichigo at least does have analytical prediction and instinctive reactions, and for what its worth...he fought someone that could see all possible futures, and that person said Ichigo could change the future as he fights and implied that 'ability' would've worked on him had he not been able to see all possible futures and just 'the' future. Luffy and Naruto have comparable battle IQ to Goku, though rather than predicting, Luffy can just straight up see the 'de facto' future. I agree Goku is more skilled, but, with few exceptions, Dragon Ball usually has less skilled characters comparable to more skilled ones if their power is relative, and the trio, especially Ichigo, tend to fight and contend with or beat people with far more skill and experience than them

 

[Killerdrone123]

Technically speaking, don't all analytical prediction users have to at least predict not where their opponent is, but where their opponent will be in short timeframes into the future? But either way, Goku fought people with comparable combat intelligence to Ichigo who don't have their own analytical prediction and didn't style on them. In fact, Vegeta and Ichigo's combat intelligence is comparable, and Vegeta managed to beat Goku in their most recent showing, Base to Base at least. And Vegeta doesn't have analytical prediction of his own.

Ichigo at least does have analytical prediction and instinctive reactions, and for what its worth...he fought someone that could see all possible futures, and that person said Ichigo could change the future as he fights and implied that 'ability' would've worked on him had he not been able to see all possible futures and just 'the' future. Luffy and Naruto have comparable battle IQ to Goku, though rather than predicting, Luffy can just straight up see the 'de facto' future. I agree Goku is more skilled, but, with few exceptions, Dragon Ball usually has less skilled characters comparable to more skilled ones if their power is relative, and the trio, especially Ichigo, tend to fight and contend with or beat people with far more skill and experience than them

No goku and vegeta eclipse ichigo combat experience they have fought opponents who are thousands of years old and goku has fought beerus and outskilled him who is millions of years old old and had training from an angel who is probably older than universe goku can master ui which gods never could in millions of year in just 45 min and vegeta defeating goku was not because if skill but because of showing how they can conserve their ki and not wasting it by meditating or a calm mind

There are different levels of analytical prediction just predicting your opponents movements and here goku was predicting someone who is not even in the present he is appearing in future it is not same

 

[Cass5373]

There should be different levels of Analytical Prediction since Goku and Ichigo both have the same ability but for different reasons, Goku analyzes and predicts through intentions, movements and gusts of air, etc. while Ichigo does not.
Goku fought with beings with an advantage over him and still prevailed in several circumstances.
Vegeta should also have the Genius classification by learning to use the spirit faster than Goku.
Goku has greater instinctive reactions and various levels of analytical predictions.
Ichigo should have resistance to precognition, maybe that will help him in a fight against Luffy, but Goku doesn't have precognition.
Yes, Luffy can see the future but he also could not reach or harm Goku due to greater instinctive reaction, Ki barrier, teleportation, analytical prediction, etc.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

future sight counters instinctive reaction lol

Goku due to greater instinctive reaction

Intermediate Kenbunshoku grants :

Instinctive Reaction (Kin'emon can sense and fight even without connection to his other senses, as his legs and torso moved around Punk Hazard using only his Kenbunshoku Haki and not any others[23][24][25]. Big Mom and Whitebeard can sense and fight while they're sleeping[26][27]. Rayleigh said that Luffy could unconsciously sense the emotions of living things[6])

 

[Cass5373]

future sight counters instinctive reaction lol

Intermediate Kenbunshoku grants :

It may be, that's why I mentioned that Goku has greater instinctive reactions, several other abilities that serve him against Luffy such as greater analytical prediction (with which he can predict Hit), teleportation, paralysis induction, telekinesis, deconstruction, greater attack range and creating force fields whereby Luffy would be paralyzed and split from his fruit with the forced participation of the spirit or severely damaged by some ki attack or perhaps erased from existence by Vegeta.

 

[MeidoIzayoi]

greater analytical prediction

Luffy has

Precognition (Much more potent than before. Can see many seconds into the literal future[19][6])

erased from existence by Vegeta.

ok, afaik Luffy has no answer to EE
but Ichigo should resists

besides
Luffy has Hao which do this at its initial stage

Fear-Inducing Aura, Status Effect Inducement, Empathic and Fear Manipulation (By directly dominating the willpower of opponents, victims often fall unconscious and are extremely shaken by this Haki, and even those who aren't are still slightly scared[65][64][1][4]. Boa Marigold and Sandersonia obeyed Luffy's command of not harming the petrified warriors[16]. Those with barely enough willpower black out for a small period of time and get mild headaches[49])

looking at Goku's and Vegeta's profile, I don't think they have enough willpower to fight against Luffy's hao

 

[Cass5373]

Yes, I have a notion about Luffy's future vision, that's why I had mentioned that Goku was able to fight Hit with his time skip and that together with the rest of Goku's abilities they could face Luffy.

Ki users in general must have a right mind, balance self-control and remain true to oneself, Goku has resisted the water of the gods which "affects the spirit and requires immense willpower to survive, the same poison that kills instantly and that Goku endured for 6 hours, I think he should have enough willpower to toughen the Hao.

 

[DivineAura44]

Y'all having 3 different arguments at once and it's hilarious to keep track of

 

[SuperStar]

Average HST thread

 

[Ednaxel2]

Voting Superman FRA