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Hes literally in the Zoro pirates... He won't betray his captain (discord thing)Lets keep this civil. I've been liking the discussion so far.
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Hes literally in the Zoro pirates... He won't betray his captain (discord thing)Lets keep this civil. I've been liking the discussion so far.
I mean, it's pretty easy to say Zoro is more skilled than Luffy because of the Hachi feat ( and him being a swordsman and on the verge of collapse tho). But Luffy's skill feats are not necessarily about him using weapons or copying other people's skills like any other generic martial arts master, it's him quickly figuring out his enemy's weaknesses and taking advantage of what he learned in the span of sec/mins accordingly. Luffy quickly deduces the timing and distance of Arlong's shark on darts after seeing it twice, that being said Luffy's Gomu Gomu Shield is normally useless and he rarely uses it against anyone, but he used this technique to counter Arlong's shark on darts due to the insane speed, no other technique would've stopped Arlong from spamming shark on darts.I think you're the one missing the point, these two are very similar like you said so the way of defining who wins is determining who is greater in each category and in how many more categories no matter how big of a difference there is as those will be the defining factors of who wins the battle regardless of how similar they are in other aspects. This isn't a case of downplaying one or the other, instead we're coming to a conclusion of what they're capable off.
When did i compare Luffy to other swordsmen to make Zoro seem more skilled? I listed one of Zoro's best skill feats that is all. Also it very much isn't disproved, looking at how Luffy overcame Kuro we see he used a rock to break his katana claws and grabbed him as he hit him so that he could restrain his movements. So you'd need to prove that these examples would work on Zoro to throw away Zoro's skill advantage.
To my knowledge I've never claimed Zoro had more experience than Luffy, as I don't see that being the defining factor of this battle as experience is relative. And Zoro not having the breathe of all things at this point doesn't really matter as none of my points as to why I think Zoro wins involves it.
Endurance is definitely a big factor as it determines who can endure more damage and fight longer, and considering how close/equal they are in other categories that's kind of important considering it will mostly be an endurance battle.
Eh, that wasn't really my point either. I'm literally just saying intelligence doesn't matter here nor was I ever suggesting Luffy using the same strategy twice against a different enemy, whom he also knows very well. Luffy's strategies and fighting style doesn't have a set pattern anyways, we literally accept it as unpredictable after all, so why am I supposed to prove something that wasn't my point to begin with (why would Luffy use a rock against Zoro when he full well know that Zoro can cut rocks with ease? Wouldn't make any sense)When did i compare Luffy to other swordsmen to make Zoro seem more skilled? I listed one of Zoro's best skill feats that is all. Also it very much isn't disproved, looking at how Luffy overcame Kuro we see he used a rock to break his katana claws and grabbed him as he hit him so that he could restrain his movements. So you'd need to prove that these examples would work on Zoro to throw away Zoro's skill advantage.
Yee he doesn't just copy fighting styles but literally everything around him or he can think off... That's specifically effective against the opponent his fightingLuffy's skill feats are not necessarily about him using weapons or coping other people's skills like any other generic martial arts master
It's pretty easy to say since it blatantly is better than what Luffy has shown (to my knowledge).I mean, it's pretty easy to say Zoro is more skilled than Luffy because of the Hachi feat ( and him being a swordsman and on the verge of collapse tho).
Zoro does the same, it's even on his profile for this keyit's him quickly figuring out his enemy's weaknesses and taking advantage of what he learned in the span of sec/mins accordingly.
Zoro on the verge of falling unconscious deduced the timing and distance of Hachi's "tentacle sword overload" without ever seeing it prior.Luffy quickly deduces the timing and distance of Arlong's shark on darts after seeing it twice, that being said Luffy's Gomu Gomu Shield is normally useless and he rarely uses it against anyone, but he used this technique to counter Arlong's shark on darts due to the insane speed, no other technique would've stopped Arlong from spamming shark on darts.
He didn't know where he was going to attack him next, he knew after he was already attacked; if anything this is a good reaction feat. Zoro has also showed good battle instincts as he reacted to the attacks of Vivi and the other baroque works agent without even looking; this also was without prior knowledge that they would attack.Also the fact that Luffy's battle instincts shouldn't be underestimated, he knew where Kuro was going to attack him next (referring to his ultimate technique), where he catches his leg after seeing the technique once. (I posted the scans twice, you will see the scans in my very first argument presented in this thread)
I'm not saying Luffy's endurance isn't impressive, just not as impressive as Zoro. We literally got confirmation in the databooks that he lost a liter of blood in the buggy/cabaji fight in which fight he literally cut himself deeper to prove that trying to aim for his injury would be ineffective. In the battle with the Nyaban brother he lost 1.5 liters of blood and still defeated them. Against Mihawk and up to his battle with Hatchan and Arlong he lost 5 liters of blood and still kept battling. Zoro's endurance is insane and this isn't to say Luffy isn't good just that feat wise Zoro's shown more.Are we literally going to ignore the fact that Arlong bit through Luffy's stomach twice and Luffy shrug off that and KO'd him with Gomu Gomu Stomp? Krieg piercing through Luffy's entire body, and Luffy still rushing towards him and knocking him down with a rifle, Luffy surviving multiple explosions from his spear just to destroy it while mischievously laughing at him like it's nothing. If you were to ask me, Luffy holds the endurance advantage here
I never claimed Luffy would definitely use the same strategy twice either, but you made the claim that Kuro (who you deem more intelligent than Luffy) losing to luffy disproves those with higher intelligence (Skill) won't work on Luffy. Which is wrong as I explained, you would need to determine how he lost and how that compares to Zoro. Saying Luffy is unpredictable and can come up with strategies against his opponent extremely quickly is fine but that doesn't prove Zoro's skill is ineffective against him or that it would be useless unless you can prove it with examples.Eh, that wasn't really my point either. I'm literally just saying intelligence doesn't matter here nor was I ever suggesting Luffy using the same strategy twice against a different enemy, whom he also knows very well. Luffy's strategies and fighting style doesn't have a set pattern anyways, we literally accept it as unpredictable after all, so why am I supposed to prove something that wasn't my point to begin with (why would Luffy use a rock against Zoro when he full well know that Zoro can cut rocks with ease? Wouldn't make any sense)
Can zoro utilize his air slashes during the East Blue Arc? I can't quite remember. If he can then Zoro's range is nothing to scoff at either.The Luffy argument from what I'm seeing pales in comparison to Zoro's especially the endurance portion. Zoro's endurance has pretty much always been higher than Luffy's. In like every arc. As for range, Luffy does have the range advantage, but it's way too risky on his part to bother because Zoro could easily exploit that, but not so much vise versa.
Luffy can make it not risky... As in he has many range techniques that'll/can be effective against Zoro... I mean luffy could steel his swordLuffy does have the range advantage, but it's way too risky on his part to bother because Zoro could easily exploit that, but not so much vise versa.
not reallyThe Luffy argument from what I'm seeing pales in comparison to Zoro's especially the endurance portion. Zoro's endurance has pretty much always been higher than Luffy's.
Yes.. But I think Just with techniques or somethingCan zoro utilize his air slashes during the East Blue Arc? I can't quite remember. If he can then Zoro's range is nothing to scoff at either.
Also someone pls help me with grace period are there a list of rules for vs threads I can look at?
Luffy could attempt it but he is hilariously bad at swordsmanship to the point it would only put him at a disadvantage.I mean luffy could steel his sword
He only ever broke Arlong's sword after getting a rage amp, and even then you would have to prove he could break Zoro's swords who's durability are extremely high.Luffy could also brake some of Zoro's sword
Not his old onesand even then you would have to prove he could break Zoro's swords who's durability are extremely high.
Based on?Not his old ones
Isn't it the opposite... Why would his east blue swords be extremely durable?Based on?
They were used by Zoro since his childhood and those from his village are from wano who have crafted some of the best/most durable swords in the world.Isn't it the opposite... Why would his east blue swords be extremely durable?
Prove he can break those swords easily, they can take being used in conjunction with Zoro's full power AP, so unless you're arguing Luffy can easily overpower Zoro in AP (which would also require proof) he can't break them swords.Well this is east blue so... Zoro has Wado Ichimonji and two normal Katanas in this fight... luffy can break them easily... Which Zoro would have to relie on his one sword style which he hasn't master up until alabasta
Isn't it lifting strength? Or striking strength?Prove he can break those swords easily, they can take being used in conjunction with Zoro's full power AP, so unless you're arguing Luffy can easily overpower Zoro in AP (which would also require proof) he can't break them swords.
No breaking a sword is AP against the sword's durability.Isn't it lifting strength? Or striking strength?
Is grip strength ap?No breaking a sword is AP against the sword's durability.
If it's attempting to break something then yeah.Is grip strength ap?
Well his normal katana have the same dura as steel? unless you can prove otherwise luffy will break themIf it's attempting to break something then yeah.
If they had the same durability as steel they would have broken whenever Zoro used an attack or blocked an attack from anybody above street level. Luffy can't break them.Well his normal katana have the same dura as steel? unless you can prove otherwise luffy will break them
Your cheatingIf they had the same durability as steel they would have broken whenever Zoro used an attack or blocked an attack from anybody above street level. Luffy can't break them.
losing ounces of blood and damn near everybody being shocked as to how he's still standing let alone fightingNo proof.
It's not luffy's weakness... It's a way to hurt him same as other humans.
This is east blue Zoro.
I don't... Lol scan?he used those moves in east blue iirc I 100% remember dragon twister
I literally posted it aboveI don't... Lol scan?
Oh... Did realize that was his dragon...I literally posted it above
Am I changing your vote to Incon as well?Incon FRA