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It's both Emission Buso and Advanced Hao^^^^^^^
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It's both Emission Buso and Advanced Hao^^^^^^^
We need a seperate thread to discuss Haki, especially the new advanced HH, before we rush into assumptions like this.It's both Emission Buso and Advanced Hao
Exactly, but we see the emission as of now, so I don't wanna drop that part. I don't want a thread about Haoshoku until we find out wtf it does.We need a seperate thread to discuss Haki, especially the new advanced HH, before we rush into assumptions like this.
That's for the verse wide AP revisionsAlso what the f King? we're supposed to wait on Wano revisions until it is over!Patience grasshopper
I prefer @CinCameron20 and @Damage3245 weighed in on that.That's for the verse wide AP revisions
Exactly, but we see the emission as of now, so I don't wanna drop that part. I don't want a thread about Haoshoku until we find out wtf it does.
Thanks for that, cause I was mistaking it for the explanation on the regen page, but it doesn't seem like it's regen.Regarding Eustass Kid, I'm not so sure that I'd call that regeneration. He is consciously manipulating the metal into just forming a certain shape, right? He's not generating more metal from it to make up for pieces that are destroyed.
How's everything else?
Revised Nico Robin.For Nico Robin, I think it should be a Limited Teleportation for now. I don't think it's actually specified that is Nico Robin's original body and not a clone that she bloomed into existence in the room. We've seen that she can make her body appear at a distance, which this would fit into.
Making her original body just teleport there seems like a bigger leap and something I think we'd need more confirmation on.
As I said, better to handle both in one thread. I'm not sure we can 100% qualify the difference between AAH VS AHH until we get a better understanding of what is currently in play. Remember we already messed up thinking what Roger and Whitebeard did was emission and missed HH. End of Wano should have a much better idea so we don't jump the gun with mistakes/assumptions
How does "Limited Haoshoku" for Zoro sound? He can't let off the incap energy but he somehow manipulates it in his Asura form?
I already addressed this. Save it for the Haki revision. For now I guess "limited HH" however that isn't actual a thing so I might just put limited in brackets.Roronoa Zoro (Spoiler Warning)
Haoshoku Haki with Asura
Statistics Amplification (Durability, can parry Kaido's attacks with broken bones, can block attacks that his base can't block)
This should be fine.Killer
Sound Manipulation, Illusion Manipulation, and Durability Negation with Scyther Sonic (When spun at enough speed, the Punishers can generate powerful soundwaves to inflict damage to its target from the inside)
Resistance to Sound Manipulation (His headphones block out sound based attacks)
1. We discussed this already and it was rejected because minor injuries have a habit to dissapear.Kaido
Mid-Low Regeneration (All of his many wounds on his body were regenerated)
Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Could take a Gamma Knife inside his body)
Advanced Busoshoku Haki (Emission)
1. Doesn't she have this already?Charlotte Linlin
Resistance to Fire and Electricity Manipulation (Can hold, wear, and ride Prometheus and Zeus, and Hera who are made out of Fire and Lightning, respectively, and she can take Counter Shock inside her body)
Minor Damnaku and Homing Attacks with Tenjin (Self Explanatory [Explained here])
Her homies get telepathy (Can hear other homies)
Advanced Busoshoku Haki (Emission)
1. I agree it looks like a forcefield but since it has no feats I'm skeptical about applying it.Trafalgar Law
Forcefield Manipulation with Curtain (Self Explanatory)
Non-Physical Interaction (Can teleport homies)
1. Seems fine I guess. Kind of curious if this is soul manipulation insteadNon-Physical Interaction (Can harm Prometheus, who is pure fire)
Heat Manipulation (Can heat people's bodies up)
Offensive Fire Manipulation (Can fire fireballs and flames that can harm others) instead of just healing flames.
Air Manipulation (Can fire shockwaves)
1. Regen does nto apply for reasons Damage stated
Looks fine.Nico Robin
Limited Teleportation (Can bloom her flowers anywhere and appear where they are)
IMO, this should be either noted as non-combat applicable or non-offensive as far as we know.
1. We see his scars bleeding and later they heal up. His scar was reopened, bleeding, then it closed up.1. We discussed this already and it was rejected because minor injuries have a habit to dissapear.
2. This was already explained more than once. Haki coverd it. Kaido cannot resist Radiation from a non-DF source.
3. See above
4. What happened to his resistance to Lightning?
5. Resistance to Ice/Cold via his flames.
6. Levitation/Telekinesis-for his obvious feat of Onigashima.
7. Resistance to sound/vibration/illusion manipulation tanking Killer's move.
1. Nope1. Doesn't she have this already?
2. I do not think this meets the standard and the power profile lists all or nothing instead of stages.
3. Link does not work.
4. See above
This fits DanmakuTypes
- Various different kinds of projectiles can be used
- Linear projectile trajectories or curving shots
- One directional, multi-directional or omni-directional
- From one origin point or multiple origin points
Having no feats ≠ Not applicable1. I agree it looks like a forcefield but since it has no feats I'm skeptical about applying it.
His profile says he can only use healing fire. It's just to revise/add on to that.3. I feel like there is a way to word this better.
Fair.4. Looks like a fireball to me
Maybe5. Should get durability negation via Heat/Sound & maybe Soul Manip
Noticed, thanksEDIT: Made some additions you missed.
1. Take it up with @Damage & @CinCameron20 . I have neither the time nor interest in discussing this since it comes down to staff. I brought up that this was rejected before and nothing has changed so my job is done.1. We see his scars bleeding and later they heal up. His scar was reopened, bleeding, then it closed up.
2. What makes DF radiation different from normal radiation?
4. What does he have resistance to Lightning for?
5. That's not resistance, that's just countering it regularly
1. Absurd. She should get those. Remove the part about Law though since that is his DF ability.1. Nope
2. The power profile says nothing of the sort
Yeah it does mean precisely that actually.Having no feats ≠ Not applicable
Disagreed, the attacks not being strong enough to harm him seriously and an actual resistance aren't the same, Kaido even reacted to it with a roar and there are very small amounts of blood coming from his mouth, that's absolutely not resistance to sound, much less illusions.7. Resistance to sound/vibration/illusion manipulation tanking Killer's move.
I agree with this.Disagreed, the attacks not being strong enough to harm him seriously and an actual resistance aren't the same, Kaido even reacted to it with a roar and there are very small amounts of blood coming from his mouth, that's absolutely not resistance to sound, much less illusions.
So do I.Disagreed, the attacks not being strong enough to harm him seriously and an actual resistance aren't the same, Kaido even reacted to it with a roar and there are very small amounts of blood coming from his mouth, that's absolutely not resistance to sound, much less illusions.
1. Their old arguments have nothing against new ones. I said the same exact thing you just did in the FTL thread and all I heard was "those are old arguments, we're not them" yadayadayada.1. Take it up with @Damage & @CinCameron20 . I have neither the time nor interest in discussing this since it comes down to staff. I brought up that this was rejected before and nothing has changed so my job is done.
2. The source, obviously.
3. Originally for being surrounded by lightning a couple years ago. Currently he would also get tanking Zeus's Lightning when it targetted Killer (Who was on Kaido).
4. Fair enough.
Do Devilfruit based elemental attacks show any difference from regular elemental attacks?
Devil Fruit based elemental attacks are all Natural.
They can merge with things in Nature that copy their ability (Gasu Gasu), they copy the speeds of their element (Goro Goro and Pika Pika), they can control already existing elements in nature (Suna Suna), they show similarities with their elements irl (Goro Goro stated to be SoLightning and moves through gold, + doesn't work on rubber, plus a scientific standpoint was needed to defeat the user), referred to as nature in an SBS, literally means "Nature System", yeah they're all natural.
3. AlrightAkuma no Mi aren't magic. There is no reason to assume that a lightning of Enel and a real lightning are different, in fact Enel says just the opposite. Btw, some akuma no mi even have a superiority in relation to common elements (Akainu Magma can melt a sword just by being close and fully vaporizing an iceberg bigger than giants in 1 second), but this is part of the creative freedom of the author after all this is a fictional work, no author will fully follow the logic of things.
Also, the justification of "Shanks could have a sword with better material than the fodder" is based on absolutely nothing, pure guesswork. If Shanks wasn’t using Haki in that scene, he would not stop a logia.
1. Agreed with the first half. The second half is eh.1. Absurd. She should get those. Remove the part about Law though since that is his DF ability.
2. The profile makes no mention of sub categories as it pertains to number of attacks. It does list categories of direction but that is not what I meant.
Not at all.Yeah it does mean precisely that actually.
No? We don't, even if the attack cut his internal organs, the fact he was actually cut removes it from being a resistance and becomes endurance, and even if we had to give Kaido some resistance it would be Limited (he still suffered damage and we have no idea how the attack is supposed to damage the organs, only that it targets them directly) and wouldn't include the illusion part (if there is an illusion part to it, Kaido was completely inside it).This is not a matter of debate or vote. By the standards of the VSWIKI we have to apply durability negation to Killer and Resistance to Kaido.
Yes it does. Was it not you who recently tried to get mimicry resistance for DF specifically because of the source? Haki on a fundementle level resists/negates DF abilities. This should not be a question anymore after Ray, Doffy, Vergo, Kaido/Big Mom etc.2. The source doesn't matter
I would like to see these pages. If Danmaku is measured by numbers and we are loose with how many numbers it leaves it open to interpretation.2. A lot of abilities do that, which is why every page doesn't say "minor" explanations on them, but we give a myriad of characters "minor" abilities.
Those are all horrible examples.Not at all.
Sanji has no feats of melting ice with his fire, we know he can do it.
Ace has no feats of burning people. Does that mean he can't do it?
We've never seen Luffy kill somebody. Does that mean he's incapable of it?
No? We don't, even if the attack cut his internal organs, the fact he was actually cut removes it from being a resistance and becomes endurance, and even if we had to give Kaido some resistance it would be Limited
The fact that the attack damaged him in the first place kinda eliminates the possibility of him getting resistance
I already explained this. Resistance includes limited. Not having any resistance means you can't tank at all. Strength is irrelevant.Killer or X bypasses whatever rating the other character has. Only with Resistance would we apply the 6-B rating. It is a null factor until then. If a character at anytime resists one of these energies they automatically acquire said resistance.
Horrible false equivalency.Yes it does. Was it not you who recently tried to get mimicry resistance for DF specifically because of the source? Haki on a fundementle level resists/negates DF abilities. This should not be a question anymore after Ray, Doffy, Vergo, Kaido/Big Mom etc.
Kin'emon, Minor Body Control.I would like to see these pages. If Danmaku is measured by numbers and we are loose with how many numbers it leaves it open to interpretation.
Didn't even elaborate on why they're bad.Those are all horrible examples.
No these are false equivalencies. We do not know if that was a barrier function or not.Horrible false equivalency.
Also these:Sanji has no feats of melting ice with his fire, we know he can do it.
Ace has no feats of burning people. Does that mean he can't do it?
We've never seen Luffy kill somebody. Does that mean he's incapable of it?
We're speaking exclusively to Danmaku which is an ability defined by # of projectiles. Those abilities are not defined by such.Kin'emon, Minor Body Control.
Zoro, Minor Fire Manipulation.
Luffy, Minor Rage Power.
Blackbeard, Minor Heat Resistance.
No because Haki was cited by Ray to counter Devil fruits. He never said anything about other phenomenon. Law's radiation, teleportation, spatial slicing are all DF.I tried to get resistance to mimicry because of the source via examples and because Devil Fruits are stuck in the spirit of the fruit.
Haki and Devil Fruits are 2 separate power systems. Haki doesn't care about the "spirit of the fruit", it cares about the ability in itself. It doesn't say "this fire came from a DF and this one did not", no, it just stops the ability.
And that thread was declined, so I don't even understand why you're using it as an example.
You cannot compare me trying to stop people from mimicking an ability and an alternate ability resisting DF abilities.
And it's not a question, because we accept that already, so if you want to say "Haki resists DF abilities", I can go add Radiation Manipulation on the Haki page, can I not?
We can see a forcefield/shield type in front of him when he does the technique. It can't be anything but a forcefield tbh.No these are false equivalencies. We do not know if that was a barrier function or not.
I spoke for everything, and we can't even count Danmaku, it never says "you need 74 projectiles moving to qualify as danmaku"Also these:
We're speaking exclusively to Danmaku which is an ability defined by # of projectiles. Those abilities are not defined by such.
2. A lot of abilities do that, which is why every page doesn't say "minor" explanations on them, but we give a myriad of characters "minor" abilities.
Verse equalization doesn't apply because Haki gets equalized, not Devil Fruits, which is one of the many reasons we give resistance to those specific abilities.No because Haki was cited by Ray to counter Devil fruits. He never said anything about other phenomenon. Law's radiation, teleportation, spatial slicing are all DF.
And in case you are thinking about VS matchups with other series remember vers equalization is a thing.
I was afraid this was the reason. I hope you have another. You did cite "many". Giving out many different abilities to suit your VS matchups is compromising site credibility for the sake of outcomes. As I said Haki was cited by Ray to counter devil fruits. Law's powers are DF. They are countered by Haki. No Haki user has used haki to resist/negate those abilities produced any other way tmk. Making things accurate is more important than giving One Piece characters abilities they do not have to give them VS wins. Please do not do it, especially as you are staff and set the example.Verse equalization doesn't apply because Haki gets equalized, not Devil Fruits, which is one of the many reasons we give resistance to those specific abilities.
True, it does not give a specific number. Only visuals which show a great deal more than what Zeus made.I spoke for everything, and we can't even count Danmaku, it never says "you need 74 projectiles moving to qualify as danmaku"
It is called a curtain. Not a shield. It does not seem to act as a shield. Law's abilities are anything but conventional so as I said I am not convinced enough to give benefit of the doubt but if other experts on here want to do so I do not care either way.We can see a forcefield/shield type in front of him when he does the technique. It can't be anything but a forcefield tbh.
Fix. I never said that we did that because of that, I said that since DFs aren't equalized, it wouldn't apply.I was afraid this was the reason. I hope you have another. You did cite "many". Giving out many different abilities to suit your VS matchups is compromising site credibility for the sake of outcomes. As I said Haki was cited by Ray to counter devil fruits. Law's powers are DF. They are countered by Haki. No Haki user has used haki to resist/negate those abilities produced any other way tmk. Making things accurate is more important than giving One Piece characters abilities they do not have to give them VS wins.
Which is why we're giving it minor Danmaku, because it's not the same extent as regular.True, it does not give a specific number. Only visuals which show a great deal more than what Zeus made.
The technique is called curtain. Do you think he literally pulls out a curtain? He pulls out something that is used to defend him, which via Occam's Razor (it's meant for defense, it shows a shield) can be considered a forcefield.It is called a curtain. Not a shield. It does not seem to act as a shield. Law's abilities are anything but conventional so as I said I am not convinced enough to give benefit of the doubt but if other experts on here want to do so I do not care either way.
Idk if i should be included on said experts, but i think a "possibly Barrier Creation" could be enough if you really have a problem with the addition, but i really don't think we should ignore Curtain while Kama Sonic will get even it's unconfirmed illusion hax.It is called a curtain. Not a shield. It does not seem to act as a shield. Law's abilities are anything but conventional so as I said I am not convinced enough to give benefit of the doubt but if other experts on here want to do so I do not care either way.
Kaido didn't tank, that's the point, a roar, some blood and blank eyes are anything but tanking.I already explained this. Resistance includes limited. Not having any resistance means you can't tank at all.
I respect Occam's razor. I think when it comes to the Opie fruit never expect straight forward abilities. As a rule of thumb regardless of Law or One Piece, do not give abilities based on assumptions.The technique is called curtain. Do you think he literally pulls out a curtain? He pulls out something that is used to defend him, which via Occam's Razor (it's meant for defense, it shows a shield) can be considered a forcefield.
Like I said those are different because the standard for Danmaku is a high (Albeit unspecific) number.Which is why we're giving it minor Danmaku, because it's not the same extent as regular.
Fix, we give Minor to many abilities. Saying "no" to it now is like changing the entire site.
Fix. I never said that we did that because of that, I said that since DFs aren't equalized, it wouldn't apply.
You did actually.which is one of the many reasons we give resistance to those specific abilities.
Devil fruits are the literal source. They are the ability. We give resistance to Devil fruit abilities via haki because it is a fact. Don't give resistance to a laundry list of otherwise unrelated abilities through haki when it isn't supported.Devil Fruits aren't the primary power source, they're a separate ability, so we have to list the specific abilities, or else we'd just equalize it if it was possible, which isn't.
1) No offense but you're not. Keep in mind I am referring to a very high standard of literally years of experience posting walls of text knowing the ins and outs of site abilities and when they apply, and following through on site standards.Idk if i should be included on said experts, but i think a "possibly Barrier Creation" could be enough if you really have a problem with the addition, but i really don't think we should ignore Curtain while Kama Sonic will get even it's unconfirmed illusion hax.
Kaido didn't tank, that's the point, a roar, some blood and blank eyes are anything but tanking.
Fighting after suffering internal damage is basic thing in OP and we have no idea how much internal damage Kama Sonic is supposed to do and how much it actually did (not everyone is Law, there are characters in OP with really minor internal damage), we don't even know which organs were possibly affected, but we know they were and that's more than enough to not add the sound/vibration resistance (i think i don't have to explain why the illusion part isn't resisted).
Ok, so we can't assume Shambles is teleportation then? We can't assume that Counter Shock is electricity? We can't assume that the eternal youth operation is giving immortality? That's your logicI think when it comes to the Opie fruit never expect straight forward abilities. As a rule of thumb regardless of Law or One Piece, do not give abilities based on assumptions.
THERE IS NO STANDARD.This is why I changed it to minor because it's a minor version.Like I said those are different because the standard for Danmaku is a high (Albeit unspecific) number.
-_-You did actually.
"Primary power source" means "the main thing that is used in the verse" not "the main thing devil fruits are". The primary power source is Haki since hundreds of more people utilize Haki than Devil Fruits.Devil fruits are the literal source. They are the ability. We give resistance to Devil fruit abilities via haki because it is a fact. Don't give resistance to a laundry list of otherwise unrelated abilities through haki when it isn't supported.
Sorry, but who the **** are you in this wiki? Who are you to tell who is an expert or not? Who decides what is "expert"? Anyone can give their opnions here, you are not someone who knows more than the others here (That's obvious, the amount of wrong stuff you say is amazing). I can read One Piece and become an expert, we all can. Experience means shit, Tempest is new here and is already a discussion moderator. Walls of text are for people who can't explain simple stuff within a few words. Really, **** off, stop with arrogance. Experts my ass.No offense but you're not. Keep in mind I am referring to a very high standard of literally years of experience posting walls of text knowing the ins and outs of site abilities and when they apply, and following through on site standards.
Actual chad.Sorry, but who the **** are you in this wiki? Who are you to tell who is an expert or not? Who decides what is "expert"? Anyone can give their opnions here, you are not someone who knows more than the others here (That's obvious, the amount of wrong stuff you say is amazing). I can read One Piece and become an expert, we all can. Experience means shit, Tempest is new here and is already a discussion moderator. Walls of text are for people who can't explain simple stuff within a few words. Really, **** off, stop with arrogance. Experts my ass.
This is all false equivilanciesOk, so we can't assume Shambles is teleportation then? We can't assume that Counter Shock is electricity? We can't assume that the eternal youth operation is giving immortality?
I'm not sure. If something is defined by needing a great many, than less than does not fit. I don't have anythign more to say on that.THERE IS NO STANDARD.This is why I changed it to minor because it's a minor version.
Yea, that is the subject at hand.the main thing devil fruits are
Please tone it down a notch and address arguments instead of people. I have no hate for @XDragnoir . They questioned what I meant and I defined it. I'm going largely by who @Antvasima has considered an "expert" but I appreciate everyone that can bring something to the table.Sorry, but who the **** are you in this wiki? Who are you to tell who is an expert or not? Who decides what is "expert"? Anyone can give their opnions here, you are not someone who knows more than the others here (That's obvious, the amount of wrong stuff you say is amazing). I can read One Piece and become an expert, we all can. Experience means shit, Tempest is new here and is already a discussion moderator. Walls of text are for people who can't explain simple stuff within a few words. Really, **** off, stop with arrogance. Experts my ass.
Also I apologize for not addressing this before. I am supportive with this since "possibly" and "Likely" are our golden ticket for that which have a likelihood but not a 100% confirmation.but i think a "possibly Barrier Creation" could be enough if you really have a problem with the addition, but i really don't think we should ignore Curtain while Kama Sonic will get even it's unconfirmed illusion hax.