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It's both Emission Buso and Advanced Hao
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One Piece, Wano Powers and Abilities
- Thread starter KingTempest
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We need a seperate thread to discuss Haki, especially the new advanced HH, before we rush into assumptions like this.
Also what the f King? we're supposed to wait on Wano revisions until it is over!
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- #43
Exactly, but we see the emission as of now, so I don't wanna drop that part. I don't want a thread about Haoshoku until we find out wtf it does.
That's for the verse wide AP revisions
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I prefer @CinCameron20 and @Damage3245 weighed in on that.
As I said, better to handle both in one thread. I'm not sure we can 100% qualify the difference between AAH VS AHH until we get a better understanding of what is currently in play. Remember we already messed up thinking what Roger and Whitebeard did was emission and missed HH. End of Wano should have a much better idea so we don't jump the gun with mistakes/assumptions
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Also I have some thoughts on the proposed revisiosn but will wait because I don't have the time now and because I want @CinCameron20 and @Damage3245 to comment. Hopefully this does not get closed before I can.
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Regarding Eustass Kid, I'm not so sure that I'd call that regeneration. He is consciously manipulating the metal into just forming a certain shape, right? He's not generating more metal from it to make up for pieces that are destroyed.
That feels a bit like giving him "Size Manipulation" because he can add more metal together to make a bigger metal weapon.
That feels a bit like giving him "Size Manipulation" because he can add more metal together to make a bigger metal weapon.
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Thanks for that, cause I was mistaking it for the explanation on the regen page, but it doesn't seem like it's regen.
How's everything else?
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For Nico Robin, I think it should be a Limited Teleportation for now. I don't think it's actually specified that is Nico Robin's original body and not a clone that she bloomed into existence in the room. We've seen that she can make her body appear at a distance, which this would fit into.
Making her original body just teleport there seems like a bigger leap and something I think we'd need more confirmation on.
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Revised Nico Robin.
Also I wanted your opinion on this. How does "Limited Haoshoku" for Zoro sound? He can't let off the incap energy but he somehow manipulates it in his Asura form?
Edit: Also, how do you feel about this?
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That sounds fine. He hasn't shown any deliberate control over it and hasn't trained with it.
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I already addressed this. Save it for the Haki revision. For now I guess "limited HH" however that isn't actual a thing so I might just put limited in brackets.
This should be fine.
1. We discussed this already and it was rejected because minor injuries have a habit to dissapear.
2. This was already explained more than once. Haki coverd it. Kaido cannot resist Radiation from a non-DF source.
3. See above
4. What happened to his resistance to Lightning?
5. Resistance to Ice/Cold via his flames.
6. Levitation/Telekinesis-for his obvious feat of Onigashima.
7. Resistance to sound/vibration/illusion manipulation tanking Killer's move.
1. Doesn't she have this already?
2. I do not think this meets the standard and the power profile lists all or nothing instead of stages.
3. Link does not work.
4. See above
1. I agree it looks like a forcefield but since it has no feats I'm skeptical about applying it.
2. I'm not sure this applies. Homies are not ghosts, they're just plasma instead of solids.
1. Seems fine I guess. Kind of curious if this is soul manipulation instead
2. Sure
3. I feel like there is a way to word this better.
4. Looks like a fireball to me
5. Should get durability negation via Heat/Sound & maybe Soul Manip
1. Regen does nto apply for reasons Damage stated
2. Seems fine
Looks fine.
EDIT: Made some additions you missed.
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IMO, this should be either noted as non-combat applicable or non-offensive as far as we know.
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1. We see his scars bleeding and later they heal up. His scar was reopened, bleeding, then it closed up.
2. What makes DF radiation different from normal radiation?
4. What does he have resistance to Lightning for?
5. That's not resistance, that's just countering it regularly
6. Agreed
7. Agreed
1. Nope
2. The power profile says nothing of the sort
This fits Danmaku
3. https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/One-Piece-Digital-Colored-Comics/0848-005.png
Having no feats ≠ Not applicable
His profile says he can only use healing fire. It's just to revise/add on to that.
Fair.
Maybe
Noticed, thanks
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1. Take it up with @Damage & @CinCameron20 . I have neither the time nor interest in discussing this since it comes down to staff. I brought up that this was rejected before and nothing has changed so my job is done.
2. The source, obviously.
3. Originally for being surrounded by lightning a couple years ago. Currently he would also get tanking Zeus's Lightning when it targetted Killer (Who was on Kaido).
4. Fair enough.
1. Absurd. She should get those. Remove the part about Law though since that is his DF ability.
2. The profile makes no mention of sub categories as it pertains to number of attacks. It does list categories of direction but that is not what I meant.
Yeah it does mean precisely that actually.
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Disagreed, the attacks not being strong enough to harm him seriously and an actual resistance aren't the same, Kaido even reacted to it with a roar and there are very small amounts of blood coming from his mouth, that's absolutely not resistance to sound, much less illusions.
Eminiteable
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I agree with this.
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So do I.
He didn't resist the attack itself, just endured its effects because it wasn't strong enough. Also, resistance to illusions doesn't even make sense now that I think about it. He didn't see through or avoided anything, he just endured the attack.
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I agree that Kaido shouldn't get resistance to that.
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Obviously ya'll need a lesson in durability negation and resistance
First let us understand why it is durability negation to begin with:
"The Powers That Be" (Ie the staff founders and calc experts) acknowledge that different types of energy operate in different ways without consideration for amount of energy (AKA Attack potency units). They also acknolwedge that different types of matter have varying thresholds for said different types of energy
No one wants that format
Alternative
The powers that be instead decided to apply Durability Negation and Resistance to profiles. Every profile is more or less treated as Human Physiology by default with our applicable standards for types of energy. Heat, cold, electricity, etc are all treated as bypassing the durability rating and have no seperate Durability rating X of their own. In other words it does not matter the different in energy units. Killer or X bypasses whatever rating the other character has. Only with Resistance would we apply the 6-B rating. It is a null factor until then. If a character at anytime resists one of these energies they automatically acquire said resistance.
Personally I was not a fan of this model and argued against it years ago when I didn't fully understand it. It was absurd to give a character durability negation just for not being a puncher. Again the powers that be made the case that matter and energy have varying forms and interactions which would be too cumbersome to apply to the profile model. Therefore the default is too give someone durability negation even if they never bypass durability and also give characters resistance just not being destroyed. I begrugingly accept the real world science of this and that having too many seperate Durability ratings on every profile is overtyly cumbersome and cluttered.
Conclusion
This is not a matter of debate or vote. By the standards of the VSWIKI we have to apply durability negation to Killer and Resistance to Kaido.
First let us understand why it is durability negation to begin with:
"The Powers That Be" (Ie the staff founders and calc experts) acknowledge that different types of energy operate in different ways without consideration for amount of energy (AKA Attack potency units). They also acknolwedge that different types of matter have varying thresholds for said different types of energy
Example 1: Mr Fantastic and Luffy have rubber physiology. As a result they gain the real world properties of said substance. Rubber has a very high threshold for stretching and thus concussive energy. On the other hand it substantially easier to melt rubber with a heat even if said heat's energy is factually lower than the yield of soemthign concussive.
Example 2: Diamonds have a very high durability to cutting which does not extend to other forms of energy. Hence Jozu can withstand Mihawk's slash but not freezing. It is also easier to hammer a Diamond to pieces then it is to try and cut one.
While the powers that be acknowledge these two truths as it relates to type of energy and the medium which they are used on, they refuse to apply the obvious and grueling following page format:AP: Country Level
Speed: Relativistic
Lifting Strength: Class T
Striking Strength: 6-B
Durability A) 6-B
Durability B) Low 6-B
Dirability C) High 7-A
.
.
.
.
Durability L) High 6-A
Durability M) 9-B
Alternative
The powers that be instead decided to apply Durability Negation and Resistance to profiles. Every profile is more or less treated as Human Physiology by default with our applicable standards for types of energy. Heat, cold, electricity, etc are all treated as bypassing the durability rating and have no seperate Durability rating X of their own. In other words it does not matter the different in energy units. Killer or X bypasses whatever rating the other character has. Only with Resistance would we apply the 6-B rating. It is a null factor until then. If a character at anytime resists one of these energies they automatically acquire said resistance.
Personally I was not a fan of this model and argued against it years ago when I didn't fully understand it. It was absurd to give a character durability negation just for not being a puncher. Again the powers that be made the case that matter and energy have varying forms and interactions which would be too cumbersome to apply to the profile model. Therefore the default is too give someone durability negation even if they never bypass durability and also give characters resistance just not being destroyed. I begrugingly accept the real world science of this and that having too many seperate Durability ratings on every profile is overtyly cumbersome and cluttered.
Conclusion
This is not a matter of debate or vote. By the standards of the VSWIKI we have to apply durability negation to Killer and Resistance to Kaido.
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1. Their old arguments have nothing against new ones. I said the same exact thing you just did in the FTL thread and all I heard was "those are old arguments, we're not them" yadayadayada.
Kaido's second huge scar against Zoro was something that he said "it would stay with him", which means that the others didn't, which means they healed. Those mini blood bruises are inconsistent. Stab wounds are not.
2. The source doesn't matter. That's like saying Haki can neg elemental intan from logias but not anyone else. We've already explained in other threads that the source is irrelevant.
3. Alright
1. Agreed with the first half. The second half is eh.
2. A lot of abilities do that, which is why every page doesn't say "minor" explanations on them, but we give a myriad of characters "minor" abilities.
Not at all.
Sanji has no feats of melting ice with his fire, we know he can do it.
Ace has no feats of burning people. Does that mean he can't do it?
We've never seen Luffy kill somebody. Does that mean he's incapable of it?
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No? We don't, even if the attack cut his internal organs, the fact he was actually cut removes it from being a resistance and becomes endurance, and even if we had to give Kaido some resistance it would be Limited (he still suffered damage and we have no idea how the attack is supposed to damage the organs, only that it targets them directly) and wouldn't include the illusion part (if there is an illusion part to it, Kaido was completely inside it).
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The fact that the attack damaged him in the first place kinda eliminates the possibility of him getting resistance.
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I mean, doesn't sound like a limited resistance is entirely out of the question if it didn't fully effect him, but I have no idea what scene you guys are talking about.
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I don't see why it would even be limited resistance tbh. the attack did exactly what it was meant to do in that situation, harm Kaido by attacking him internally with sound instead of externally.
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Yes it does. Was it not you who recently tried to get mimicry resistance for DF specifically because of the source? Haki on a fundementle level resists/negates DF abilities. This should not be a question anymore after Ray, Doffy, Vergo, Kaido/Big Mom etc.
I would like to see these pages. If Danmaku is measured by numbers and we are loose with how many numbers it leaves it open to interpretation.
Those are all horrible examples.
I already explained this. Resistance includes limited. Not having any resistance means you can't tank at all. Strength is irrelevant.
If that still confuses you consider the relationship between virus and antibodies. no resistance means no anti bodies means byebye. Resistance means you are still effected but can be to varying levels and VSWIKI does not distinguish set multipliers for how much.
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Horrible false equivalency.
I tried to get resistance to mimicry because of the source via examples and because Devil Fruits are stuck in the spirit of the fruit.
Haki and Devil Fruits are 2 separate power systems. Haki doesn't care about the "spirit of the fruit", it cares about the ability in itself. It doesn't say "this fire came from a DF and this one did not", no, it just stops the ability.
And that thread was declined, so I don't even understand why you're using it as an example.
You cannot compare me trying to stop people from mimicking an ability and an alternate ability resisting DF abilities.
And it's not a question, because we accept that already, so if you want to say "Haki resists DF abilities", I can go add Radiation Manipulation on the Haki page, can I not?
Kin'emon, Minor Body Control.
Zoro, Minor Fire Manipulation.
Luffy, Minor Rage Power.
Blackbeard, Minor Heat Resistance.
We've always done "Minor" on abilities that don't 100% follow the ability but hold some portions to it. I don't know why you just found out that.
Go find an ability page that has "Minor" on it for me. You can't, because there is none. It's a known wiki concept.
Didn't even elaborate on why they're bad.
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No these are false equivalencies. We do not know if that was a barrier function or not.
Also these:
We're speaking exclusively to Danmaku which is an ability defined by # of projectiles. Those abilities are not defined by such.
No because Haki was cited by Ray to counter Devil fruits. He never said anything about other phenomenon. Law's radiation, teleportation, spatial slicing are all DF.
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We can see a forcefield/shield type in front of him when he does the technique. It can't be anything but a forcefield tbh.
I spoke for everything, and we can't even count Danmaku, it never says "you need 74 projectiles moving to qualify as danmaku"
Verse equalization doesn't apply because Haki gets equalized, not Devil Fruits, which is one of the many reasons we give resistance to those specific abilities.
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I was afraid this was the reason. I hope you have another. You did cite "many". Giving out many different abilities to suit your VS matchups is compromising site credibility for the sake of outcomes. As I said Haki was cited by Ray to counter devil fruits. Law's powers are DF. They are countered by Haki. No Haki user has used haki to resist/negate those abilities produced any other way tmk. Making things accurate is more important than giving One Piece characters abilities they do not have to give them VS wins. Please do not do it, especially as you are staff and set the example.
True, it does not give a specific number. Only visuals which show a great deal more than what Zeus made.
It is called a curtain. Not a shield. It does not seem to act as a shield. Law's abilities are anything but conventional so as I said I am not convinced enough to give benefit of the doubt but if other experts on here want to do so I do not care either way.
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Fix. I never said that we did that because of that, I said that since DFs aren't equalized, it wouldn't apply.
Devil Fruits aren't the primary power source, they're a separate ability, so we have to list the specific abilities, or else we'd just equalize it if it was possible, which isn't.
Devil Fruits' source have nothing to do with the ability at hand.
Yes they are from devil fruits, yes they resist devil fruit abilities.
We consider Devil Fruit abilities the same as any other ability, which is why we list what it's resistant to.
Heck, I'll even CRT it after this.
Which is why we're giving it minor Danmaku, because it's not the same extent as regular.
Fix, we give Minor to many abilities. Saying "no" to it now is like changing the entire site.
The technique is called curtain. Do you think he literally pulls out a curtain? He pulls out something that is used to defend him, which via Occam's Razor (it's meant for defense, it shows a shield) can be considered a forcefield.
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Idk if i should be included on said experts, but i think a "possibly Barrier Creation" could be enough if you really have a problem with the addition, but i really don't think we should ignore Curtain while Kama Sonic will get even it's unconfirmed illusion hax.
Kaido didn't tank, that's the point, a roar, some blood and blank eyes are anything but tanking.
Fighting after suffering internal damage is basic thing in OP and we have no idea how much internal damage Kama Sonic is supposed to do and how much it actually did (not everyone is Law, there are characters in OP with really minor internal damage), we don't even know which organs were possibly affected, but we know they were and that's more than enough to not add the sound/vibration resistance (i think i don't have to explain why the illusion part isn't resisted).
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I respect Occam's razor. I think when it comes to the Opie fruit never expect straight forward abilities. As a rule of thumb regardless of Law or One Piece, do not give abilities based on assumptions.
Like I said those are different because the standard for Danmaku is a high (Albeit unspecific) number.
You did actually.
Devil fruits are the literal source. They are the ability. We give resistance to Devil fruit abilities via haki because it is a fact. Don't give resistance to a laundry list of otherwise unrelated abilities through haki when it isn't supported.
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1) No offense but you're not. Keep in mind I am referring to a very high standard of literally years of experience posting walls of text knowing the ins and outs of site abilities and when they apply, and following through on site standards.
2) read what I said here. If you still have concerns and/or questions please quote. Respectfully I feel like I am repeating myself.
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Ok, so we can't assume Shambles is teleportation then? We can't assume that Counter Shock is electricity? We can't assume that the eternal youth operation is giving immortality? That's your logic
THERE IS NO STANDARD.This is why I changed it to minor because it's a minor version.
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"Primary power source" means "the main thing that is used in the verse" not "the main thing devil fruits are". The primary power source is Haki since hundreds of more people utilize Haki than Devil Fruits.
Unrelated? Ok now.
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Sorry, but who the **** are you in this wiki? Who are you to tell who is an expert or not? Who decides what is "expert"? Anyone can give their opnions here, you are not someone who knows more than the others here (That's obvious, the amount of wrong stuff you say is amazing). I can read One Piece and become an expert, we all can. Experience means shit, Tempest is new here and is already a discussion moderator. Walls of text are for people who can't explain simple stuff within a few words. Really, **** off, stop with arrogance. Experts my ass.
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Wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. No matter how much anyone's contributed to a verse in the past, that doesn't give them the right to belittle others in such a condescending manner. Nobody holds a monopoly over what is correct and who's an "expert". Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course, but you can't under any circumstances enforce that opinion onto others regardless of how many text walls you've produced.
This isn't a dictatorship, it's a debating site. If you don't want to debate with others, then you're probably on the wrong platform.
This isn't a dictatorship, it's a debating site. If you don't want to debate with others, then you're probably on the wrong platform.
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This is all false equivilancies
I'm not sure. If something is defined by needing a great many, than less than does not fit. I don't have anythign more to say on that.
Yea, that is the subject at hand.
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Please tone it down a notch and address arguments instead of people. I have no hate for @XDragnoir . They questioned what I meant and I defined it. I'm going largely by who @Antvasima has considered an "expert" but I appreciate everyone that can bring something to the table.
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Also I apologize for not addressing this before. I am supportive with this since "possibly" and "Likely" are our golden ticket for that which have a likelihood but not a 100% confirmation.
Also if I offended you in any way in miscommunication I apoligize.
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