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Well then why the hell can’t haki users resist elemental attacks??? if they are all natural then We do have reasons to think Haki users would be safe from a non-DF elemental attack. Because what’s the difference?
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Busoshoku Haki Huge Addition
- Thread starter KingTempest
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Well then why the hell can’t haki users resist elemental attacks??? if they are all natural then We do have reasons to think Haki users would be safe from a non-DF elemental attack. Because what’s the difference?
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I see your point.
I understand and agree, there should be no reason why it shouldn't count.
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Akuma no Mi aren't magic. There is no reason to assume that a lightning of Enel and a real lightning are different, in fact Enel says just the opposite. Btw, some akuma no mi even have a superiority in relation to common elements (Akainu Magma can melt a sword just by being close and fully vaporizing an iceberg bigger than giants in 1 second), but this is part of the creative freedom of the author after all this is a fictional work, no author will fully follow the logic of things.
Also, the justification of "Shanks could have a sword with better material than the fodder" is based on absolutely nothing, pure guesswork. If Shanks wasn’t using Haki in that scene, he would not stop a logia.
Also, the justification of "Shanks could have a sword with better material than the fodder" is based on absolutely nothing, pure guesswork. If Shanks wasn’t using Haki in that scene, he would not stop a logia.
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Yeah if Shanks didn't use Haki the magma wouldn't have been stopped.
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So from what I've seen.
The Heat and Fire is a semi controversial topic.
Regen Negation is not an issue.
Spacial Manip is not an issue.
Resistance to Intan neg isn't an issue.
Resistance to resistance negation is a mini issue.
Petrification, Paralysis, Corrosion, and Poison manip isn't an issue.
Resistance to all elements under the logia category is an issue that some people agree with and some don't.
Extras isn't an issue.
The Heat and Fire is a semi controversial topic.
Regen Negation is not an issue.
Spacial Manip is not an issue.
Resistance to Intan neg isn't an issue.
Resistance to resistance negation is a mini issue.
Petrification, Paralysis, Corrosion, and Poison manip isn't an issue.
Resistance to all elements under the logia category is an issue that some people agree with and some don't.
Extras isn't an issue.
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Now that I think about it, I do have a bit of an issue with this.
If we liken Luffy's Armament Haki to a forcefield over his hands preventing the poison from touching him, then his body wouldn't be in a position to be affected by the poison. So it wouldn't count as resistance towards each of those effects.
Also, this is Luffy that we're using as the only example for this. A character with a high degree of poison resistance already thanks to Magellan.
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I'm referring to the portion where it just crumbled off.
The thread is for resistances of Buso, so if Buso is the "forcefield" in this example, it would need to resist that poison.
This would apply to his physical body via the antibodies of Ivankov. His Haki is independent of his physical bodies' DNA and body structure, or else we're saying that Goken pushes poison antibodies into people's body.
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Don't forcefields typically "resist poison"?
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We're not taking "forcefield" literally, and we're referring to the virus that petrifies what it touches, which wasn't the case for Luffy's haki
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Don't we take Forcefield literally? It's the first power listed for Armament Haki.
While I get the petrifying bit, I don't think the poison or paralysis apply.
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I have a problem with resistance against Spatial Manipulation. If that were the case why didn't Vergo stop Amputate? Since his Armament Haki was superior to Smoker's. I believe that Smoker was only able to deflect and stop Law's blows because he prevented or hindered his movement with Observation Haki (And he didn’t specify which type of Haki Tashigi wasn’t good to fighting Law). Because we see that when Smoker deflected Law's sword movements, he cut everything in the direction that the sword had been hit then the cut had not been stopped.
Injection Shot is a concentrated attack and it affected Doflamingo internally, so if he cut his organs we didn’t see (There is also no evidence that Doflamingo used haki to defend himself in this scene).
Injection Shot is a concentrated attack and it affected Doflamingo internally, so if he cut his organs we didn’t see (There is also no evidence that Doflamingo used haki to defend himself in this scene).
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Question, if DFs aren't magic and thus are = natural elements, then there would be no resistance to non-natural elements (i.e magically created)?
Yes the resistance page says through varying means, but it does not mean that simply putting a forcefield (Busoshoku) in your body and tanking elemental attacks will give you resistance to that, i agree with giving resistance to side effects (heat, cold, corrosion, etc) and hax DFs, but elemental attacks by themselves i disagree, even if both sides can be valid i don't think we can say the difference between resisting a light kick and tanking one.
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I always get a chuckle out resistance to resistance to resitance infinity negatives
On topic I'm pretty sure all this stuff has already been applied with the exception of Reddit FF. If they are not than I'm 90% sure they got removed by someone making edits in the past few months.
On topic I'm pretty sure all this stuff has already been applied with the exception of Reddit FF. If they are not than I'm 90% sure they got removed by someone making edits in the past few months.
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I disagree, Oden was boiled alive and did not even consider the possibility of using busoshoku.
Sakazuki did not melt the sword of these unconfirmed haki users. If one was melted and the others were not, there is clearly a difference in degrees, or even decided hardness in creation that distinguishes these swords.
Marco's regeneration has a limit (possibly expending energy), and he tends to prioritize healing more serious injuries, such as the Garp's punch that twisted his neck.
In the last chapter it was possible to see an example of my argument, because Marco prioritized the recovery of his wing cut by King, but neglected the wounds on his face.
Apparently it is necessary for Law to complete the move with his sword for AMPUTATE to be activated. Just as in the first scan the cut was blocked normally, and in the third presented in your post, , the sword was deflected, being able to complete the movement and activate the cutting hax.
hardness.
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True.
The poison didn't get into Luffy's body for it all to happen.
Saying "he has a forcefield" in a debate is NLF types of reaching, or else we can just say in every versus thread "Luffy has a force field, it doesn't get through".
We need to list what gets through, and tangible Poison is not one of them.
Spreading anything out through your entire body is going to be weaker than focusing it in a blade.
Observation Haki is everything except physical. Smoker smacked his attacks out of mid air. His sword would've been diced.
You're gonna need a lot of proof to convince me that precognition is what can stop spacial manipulation, especially when Smoker didn't even know how good his opponents' Observation was.
The cut didn't affect him. I'm not saying it stops his power from working, I'm saying it doesn't work on them.
It was never concentrated, since we see a wide range of destruction on the second page.
Fair about the haki part.
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So if "I was born to boil" is poetic, and he stayed in there for an hour while holding people... you'd think plot has something to do with it right?
We don't even know their names, and who says they don't have haki? If random marine field soldiers have haki, they probably do too. And the fact that we see it once says a lot.
Marco went to a funeral hours (if not days) after the war and still had bandages from Garp's attack.
In the same exact scan you posted, it says he was tired.
Marco rested and went to a funeral and still had those wounds from the Haki'd attacks.
Please explained why Marco didn't heal himself when the war was over.
Law chopped Vergo's face with a finger swipe not even half of a meter in distance.
Idk where it says he needs to fully swipe.
What does this have to do with blocking out DF abilities?
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The Japanese phrase is "let me boil". Plot ... EVERYTHING IS PLOT. Luffy having black hair is a plot, Smoker having the fruit of the smoke is a plot, fruit of the smoke being not being paramecia is a plot. Our duty as readers is not just to rely on a mental crutch of "it's a plot, I'm not going to argue", but to analyze whether that plot is consistent with what is presented in the manga.
What is not lacking are examples of this type that show users of haki not even considering the use of this ability against thermal energies. Busoshoku is definitely not effective in these situations.
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In all my time here, i never saw a profile that lists everything a force field can block unless it blocks things like spiritual and conceptual attacks. It would be a NLF to say a 6C force field can block a 4A attack, but it blocking poisons, liquids, gases, elemental attacks (i.e everything that is physical) isn't a NLF, it is an impermeable barrier after all.
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Plot-Induced Stupidity
Plot-Induced Stupidity, or PIS for short, is a term used to refer to events in a story that contradict a character's normal capabilities for the purpose of the plot. For example, if a generally competent, intelligent villain does something stupid like not killing the hero immediately when he has...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Character-Induced Stupidity
Character-Induced Stupidity, or CIS for short, refers to the mental limits of a character that cause them to perform at below the true potential of their powers. The term is somewhat of a misnomer, since it refers to more than just stupidity - it could also refer to a character's unawareness...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Huge difference.
Monets' powers are draining his energy. His Buso is a part of his energy, so he can clearly not use it.
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The point is that when the poison touched his haki, it crumbled.
That did not happen with Doffy's strings, Kata's hands, none of that.
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In the same way that we don't know the name of the pirate who had his blade melted, how can you tell me that he doesn't have haki, but the others do?
We don't know what kind of limitation was imposed on Marco's regeneration, there is no guarantee that a "rest" can recover his regeneration. In addition, the marineford war did not end with Garp's punch, Marco remained on the battlefield suffering injuries from other people.
Completed the movement of the finger.I will add information that reinforces the "complete movement" argument below.
It is impossible to cut something hard with a sharp object of less rigidity. The smoker's warning to tashigi about haki, and Doffy masturbating Vergo's Busoshoku is about that. Unless you think the smoker's Jitte who, according to his speech, stopped an "amputate" from the law, is tougher than Vergo's Busoshoku.
Vergo body + haki>Bamboo + haki> Jitte + haki.
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@KingTempest
You need to prove that spreading Haki all over your body makes you weaker than focusing on a single point. If that were the real case Vergo wouldn’t need to transform with Fullbody Haki to beat Law, and Luffy wouldn't get any power-up after spreading Haki all over his body (Gear 4th). Vergo's Haki simply has no comparison, it literally destroys Smoker's Haki. Smoker's Haki being able to stop something that Vergo's Haki was unable to do is simply non-sense.
When I say that Smoker was referring to Observation, it is because with this haki he could predict Law's movements and stop him before he complete the sword movement (What is needed to do the Amputate). It is a simple matter of agility, Law's weakness is that if his sword is stopped or reflected his space cuts are also because they depend on the movement.
I'm not going to go into the Injection Shot question because you already admitted that this scene has no evidence that Doffy used Haki.
You need to prove that spreading Haki all over your body makes you weaker than focusing on a single point. If that were the real case Vergo wouldn’t need to transform with Fullbody Haki to beat Law, and Luffy wouldn't get any power-up after spreading Haki all over his body (Gear 4th). Vergo's Haki simply has no comparison, it literally destroys Smoker's Haki. Smoker's Haki being able to stop something that Vergo's Haki was unable to do is simply non-sense.
When I say that Smoker was referring to Observation, it is because with this haki he could predict Law's movements and stop him before he complete the sword movement (What is needed to do the Amputate). It is a simple matter of agility, Law's weakness is that if his sword is stopped or reflected his space cuts are also because they depend on the movement.
I'm not going to go into the Injection Shot question because you already admitted that this scene has no evidence that Doffy used Haki.
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Peep how i ended the sentence with a "And the fact that we see it once says a lot".
I said his rest can recover his stamina which would allow him to heal.
Didn't Law not swing while Tashigi tried to attack him and she split his sword?
I love how everyone forgot that Vergo was just fighting someone that matched his AP while getting electrocuted by Law prior, is obviously tired, and is still using him as a counter point.
Vergo just got out of a fight. Stop using him as a counter
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"Let it flow from the parts you don't need it in"
We don't need to prove common sense, that's like proving that the OP planet's air isn't primarily oxygen and nitrogen. Focusing always was better than spreading out.
And again.
VERGO JUST GOT OUT OF A FIGHT, he isn't at peak strength. He is a horrible example.
Why would he need fullbody haki just to block one sword swing? That's the dumbass logic, which is why we only see those 2 idiots (Vergo and Pica) do it. It would've been smarter just to do it where they would get hit. That's a prime example of Character induced stupidity.
Luffy's power up comes from his elasticity, huge difference.
I'll ignore this since I just added this at the top.
Has never been stated to require that, because he smacked his sword the opposite direction and Law still cut the hills and ships in his path even without completing the full movement.
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The fact that we see that Haki work against paramecias, Doflamingo hints to Haki blocking his technique, Smoker hints to it, and we get a statement that Haki is meant to counter DFs should be enough to say that the resistance to Spacial Manipulation is alright.
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Hm, so in the post you say that busoshoku has thermal resistance, but when a haki user (who you claimed to be) is shown having his sword melted, does he automatically lose the ability to use haki? lol
But there is still nothing that relates physical fatigue to the regeneration of the flames.
The sword had already been cut before.
He didn't even gasp during the fight, there are no plausible reasons that indicate that Busoshoku was weaker.
It is only possible to focus the entire aura of the body in one place with the emission of haki. In all 1006 chapters, there is no indication that showing users of busoshoku kouka having the autonomy to increase the hardness of their haki.Increasing the area does not decrease the hardness, it only increases the consumption of aura.
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I never said these people obviously have haki, I put that as a possibility, which is why I focused on a different point at the end.
Please prove that there is some other energy at work that stops him from regenerating.
I'm not focusing on the spacial manipulation counters anymore. You're countering arguments that don't shut down the claim.
This is good enough.
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Okay, except for this "possibility", there is nothing else in the manga that indicates the resistance to the thermal energy of Busoshoku.
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I think @Karlsefni makes a fair point. Akainu is a DF user and Dfs are resisted by Haki. Natural heat might not operate the same way.
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The fact that WB and Shanks' weapons weren't melted by lava says a lot about resistance to thermal energy.
I sent the example of Akainu melting blades because it shows that his lava is hot enough for stuff like that, but since the other "antifeat" is present, nevermind.
If we easily said all DFs are resisted by Haki, we would just say "Haki resists DFs" and give them resistances to every DF ability in the book (transmutation, vibrations, etc).
DFs still produce natural effects, so they still are resisting those effects as well.
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Can paramecia df usersthat manipulate their environment be harmed by an attack made by whatever they manipulate ?
If yes, the how can Whitebeard create a sphere of condensed vibrations around his arm and not get affected by it? Is that not proof of vibration resistance?
If yes, the how can Whitebeard create a sphere of condensed vibrations around his arm and not get affected by it? Is that not proof of vibration resistance?
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I have absolutely no idea, but lemme just say this.
Mr. 5 is immune to his own explosions, Miss Valentine and Machvise don't die from their weight, Daz Bones is a blade man who can't get hurt by blades (unless Haki based), things of that nature.
Idk if Doflamingo gets cut by strings or if Katakuri can suffocate in his own Mochi, I have no idea, but a lot of DF users are resistant/immune to their own abilities.
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I think this is a rather typical thing in fiction, of characters not usually being affected by their own abilities, unless it gets specifically pointed out.
To give an example from another verse, Sasuke doesn't get hurt when he encases his own hand in Chidori to stab through someone - but I very much doubt he'd be immune if Kakashi tried to stab him through the chest with his own Chidori.
To give an example from another verse, Sasuke doesn't get hurt when he encases his own hand in Chidori to stab through someone - but I very much doubt he'd be immune if Kakashi tried to stab him through the chest with his own Chidori.
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Huh... That's funny.
I wonder why that doesn't come up later?
I wonder why that doesn't come up later?
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Probably his hand got stronger, there's really nothing I can pull out of my head for this
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Probably his hand got stronger, there's really nothing I can pull out of my head for this
Puberty
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But yeah, devil fruit users do show a lot of resistances to their own attacks.
This thread is for Haki though, but if someone wants to focus on devil fruit resistances, see what you can get!
This thread is for Haki though, but if someone wants to focus on devil fruit resistances, see what you can get!
One thing I wanted to tackle was the fact that haki resists devil fruits in general.
How would that work out in VS threads? We know it's not just the ones listed here and that it's more than a few DFs that are resisted, but are we gonna say "all of these abilities" or no, because we know for sure that Haki and Paramecia fruits have a connection.
How would that work out in VS threads? We know it's not just the ones listed here and that it's more than a few DFs that are resisted, but are we gonna say "all of these abilities" or no, because we know for sure that Haki and Paramecia fruits have a connection.
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There is nothing natural about what Sugar does :S
As I said we apply DF resistance to Haki for obvious stated reasons, but I do not recall Haki being cites as effective in more natural efects.
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