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Saber (F/SN) vs. Archer (F/SN)

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Burning_Full_Fingers

Burning_Full_Fingers

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I can't remember if anything was said or shown on who's canonically stronger so I decided to make this. If there's something on it, I'll remove the thread. The fight takes place in Archer's marble.

Seib─ü:

Mirai!Shirou:

Standard Battle Assumptions

Shirou is Saber's master and Tohsaka is Archer's. They start off 4 kilometers away from each other.

This is Fate Saber and Base Archer with Unlimited Blade Works. Saber's only allowed to put out a 7-A Excaliblast and no Avalon shenanigans. Who wins?

Images Saber
Images Archer
 
Area, starting distance, which master, etc..., we rly need more informations?

(both Rin, close distance for example: Saber utterly destroys him.

Saber with Emiya, Archer with Rin, long distance: pretty good chance for Archer.

Both with Rin, long distance: Most likely Saber, but it's a good fight, etc...)
 
I think Standard Battle Assumptions takes care of distance issues and they have their normal masters. That is, Shiro for Saber and Tohsaka for Archer. What do you mean by area?
 
@Burning

For the record, Saber nearly slices Archer in half in literally every route at the start of the game. Assuming they're both in striking range. Saber stomps. The only way Archer can hold a candle to her in hand-to-hand is by sniping at Shirou from a distance or fending her off with Unlimited Blade Works, which he wouldn't be able to get off with Saber in his face.
 
Saber takes this handily, based on Shirou's own words to Gilgamesh : "Having an infinite number of swords wouldn't let me stand up to a Servant who has mastered one" - and while Archer would definitely be more skilled than Shirou, I still think that there would be a big gap between their skill level. In UBW, Archer is clearly inferior to all three Warrior Servants (Saber, Lancer and Berzerker). He is only better at fighting than Caster/Rider and possibly equal to Assassin - who had his own share of issues
 
Archer might not be as strong or as fast as Lancer, but his Eyes of the Mind mean his skill is enough to make up for it. And he was still able to take down 6 of Berserker's god-hand lives without using UBW. And this was a berserker who had utterly broken stats and also had and instinctually used his own Eyes of the Mind.

Saber's instinct probably trumps Eyes of the Mind though, so close up I would say Saber wins

But that 4km starting distance... not sure. Sniping at her with Hrunting or Caladabolg would force her to use up energy dodging or blocking, and once she gets close UBW is basically GoB - 1

Might need to think about this a bit more.
 
Unless the place that this battle took place is empty with no people or Shirou and Saber pull the same thing that they did in Hollow Ataraxia, Archer would win after some time with that range.
 
@Monarch

Archer was getting stomped by Lancer during their second bout in Unlimited Blade Works since the latter was no longer being held back by Kirei's Command Spell, with Archer's experience from their first round being the only reason why he was able to hold on, so that might not be the best example.

That said, assuming we're starting at 4 km, Archer would have the opportunity to take pot shots at her and Shirou with Hrunting. With the additional assumption that Shirou and Rin aren't going at it (since this is Saber vs Archer and not Saber and Shirou vs Archer and Rin), Saber would have some problems getting close enough, but given that Archer had to fire at Shirou rather than Saber to keep her back, I would say that she would still win out in the end.

P.S. Thanking my host family for providing me with their Wi-Fi so I can comment here guilt free.
 
@Fab

Location matters.

If Saber is in a City, she won't Excaliblast him. If they aren't, Archer is eating a holy sword beam to the face.
 
IIRC Archer's Aias was struggling against a thrown version of Gae Bolg, just barely blocking it, although Shirou's Aias blocked several NPs from Gilgamesh's GoB.
 
@Monarch

It could probably resist it, given that Excalibur Morgan was overwhelmed by HF Shirou's Four-Petal Rhos Aias when used along with Rider's Bellerophon. The Gilgamesh case was more than likely Gil holding back due to heavily underestimating a mere third-rate Magus like Shirou rather than his Rhos Aias' holding up all that well.

However, every time a layer shatters, Archer receives a proportionate amount of damage back, meaning that he'll be left grievously injured even if Rhos Aias manages to tank Excalibur.
 
Yeah true. That part about recieving proportional damage always seemed stupid to me - what's the point of having 7 layers to block if you take damage each time one breaks?

Hmmmm

If Saber closes the distance, Archer dies. But with his Hrunting homing arrows that get stronger with each shot, Caladabolg nukes and when/if she gets close enough, the entire Unlimited Blade Works marble spamming Broken Phantasms at her from every angle, I'm not sure she can close the distance. She was getting hit pretty hard by Gil's bladespam, and in UBW Archer's is on the same level in both speed, angles of attack, and power (at least with the BPs)
 
@Monarch

Excalibur is still faster though. It has one of the fastest activation times among Noble Phantasms, and even a partial charge is enough to force Gilgamesh to dodge (albeit while he wasn't wearing his armor).
 
Does he need to say the whole "I am the bone of my sword.... have withstood.... never hold... as I pray... UBW" in order to activate UBW? If so, then yeah, by the time Saber enters UBW's range, she'll be able to excaliblast him
 
@Monarch

No, but by the time the swords reach her she'll have already unleashed Excalibur, which will also buy time by vaporizing all the swords coming from the front.
 
Saber can easily block his normal arrows with her instincts and skill, and broken phantasms takes 30-40 sec to charge up which is enough time for Saber to rush him down, since Archer in character doesn't start off with firing broken phantasms. Once Saber gets close she destroys him in CQC or if he somehow gest UBW off she Excaliblasts and one shots him .
 
Hmmm ok i say Saber wins after reading the whole thread, she is probably too much for Archer to handle.
 
I don't think that saber can beat Archer In CQC just for a single reason: Triple-Linked Crane Wings

An unblocable unavoidable letal attack that is used by Shirou to beat Saver Alter 1 on 1
 
You are kidding right? Archer would never even get the chance to use it since he would die instantly in CQC. Shirou beat Saber alter by numerous factors Triple-Linked Crane Wings is not one of them.
 
To give you an example the beginning of the fate route a Shirou gimped Saber badly wounds Archer in CQC and would have killed him and Rin after being summoned incompetently by Shirou. But she was stopped by Shirou.
 
You ignore the fact that that was a surprice attack that got him without guard

Also Shioru survived an exchange of blows with her and pulled of the the tecnique 1 on 1

So I don't see why Archer couldn't do the same or even better because his body would not be transforming into swords or losing his mind every time he tries to project
 
Did you even read the VN Saver Alter wasn't continuously assaulting Shirou she was clearly holding back with her mana burst, she became 3x stonger against Diarmuid with more magical energy. Alter has a near limitless magical energy supply so she can power up to her body's limit. Saber Alter lost because her agility, instincts where downgraded after becoming an Alter. You heavily overestimate Archers CQC ability did you forget that Archer would get insta killed by Cu if he didn't have previous experience fighting him? "Saber Alter is more powerful in this fight" she has infinite mana sure but she didn't abuse her massively stronger mana burst or use Excalibur so there goes one of her biggest advantages and the reason why she is more powerful, Agility ranked down and instincts are downgraded yeah more powerful but less skilled slower and dulled senses and didn't use her main advantage in power to crush Shirou. While Regular Saber always uses mana burst at her max power available so in CQC Archer gets obliterated.
 
"Holding back" She literaly thinks that a hero must destroy their enemies with all their strength

Archer and her have the same agility and he knows how Saber fights like Cu so he knows how to fight her also he can pull of an anti dragon or anti king weapon and o no saber gets one shoted

And I mean if they have the same agility that mean that Archer can stop her from using Excalibur at distance

Also unlimited blades works is an Multilateral attack how do you defend yourself agains that?
 
Saber Alter held back against Shirou this is fact, she didn't use Excalibur or powered up Mana burst and even waited for Shirou to use his projection. The argument that Shirou beat Saber Alter means that Archer beats Saber is false and goes against canon.

No Archer does not know how to fight Saber when she is using her enhanced mana burst, go read the VNs or even hollow ataraxia Saber was stated to be easily able to rush him down.... She doesn't need o defend against UBW because Archer dies before he uses it lol. No Saber has superior agility because Mana burst and how is Archer going to bring out a anti dragon sword when he needs to try his hardest not to die? The only way Archer wins if he goes long range and spams broken Phantasms which he never does in character.
 
You are talking about Saber with Shirou right?

She can barely pull of 1 shot with excalibur if she spams mana burst she is going to weaken hersefl when she arrives to fight Archer also if she does take her time to reach him he has time to pull of unlimited blades work and also inside of ulimited blades works all the swords are already created so he doesnt have to project them and only has to send them flying to kill saber and I think that that is faster than saber trying to pull of excalibur
 
She always spams mana burst because that's literally how she fights. She gets close and kills him with superior technique, speed and power. And yes Shirou gimped Saber was stated to be easily able to rush down Archer and kill him because she can block his regular arrows very easily.


Not even close Excalibur has a activation speed of a fraction of a second Archer dies before he sends his swords. Or even uses UBW because in CQC he dies.
 
Giovannimx said:
I don't think that saber can beat Archer In CQC just for a single reason: Triple-Linked Crane WingsAn unblocable unavoidable letal attack that is used by Shirou to beat Saver Alter 1 on 1
Click to expand...
Lmao, Saber Alter would have blasted Shirou into oblivion without holding back.

And besides Excali. spam is Alter significantly weaker than usual Saber.

Archers only (pretty small)chance is range, he dies amlost instantly in CQC.
 
Giovannimx said:
So what about 9 lives bladeworks if he uses that Saber is dead
Click to expand...
Nothing is about that, he would be dead long before he can even just think about using(which he can't) that in CQC.
 
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