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Why can't he use it?
Shirou projected it using his arm also the fight starts with a distance of 4 km
Shirou projected it using his arm also the fight starts with a distance of 4 km
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Saber (F/SN) vs. Archer (F/SN)
- Thread starter Burning_Full_Fingers
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Because he never copied it from Berserker.. Why would Archer project a giant sword and waste mana trying to replicate Berserkers strength when he should be trying to snipe Saber?
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Never copied from berserk? dude he is Shirou He already saw berserk in his vertion of the grail war
because as you said she can avoid his arrows well unless he uses gaes bollg as one
because as you said she can avoid his arrows well unless he uses gaes bollg as one
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He can't use Gae Bolg's heart piercing effect. At best he can use it's ability to not let wounds heal, but he needs to hit her first.
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He can use it by the same logic with wich Shirou used nine lives
He copies the skills of the original owner of the weapon
He copies the skills of the original owner of the weapon
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Ok firstly the only Shirou that has nine lives is heaven' feel Shirou, who let go of his ideals eliminating the possibility of him becoming Archer so he doesn't have it from when he was Shirou. Secondly he only fought Berserker in close range and in person in the fate route and he didn't copy it from him either because his would get ranked down. So Archer has 0% possibility to have Nine lives.
He can't use Gae Bolgs anti unti thrust technique at long range..... Unless you are going to tell me that Archer somehow learned how to modify how Gae Bolg rewrites causality..... He can only activate Gae Bolg if he throws it like Cu with its always hitting effect but it would be ranked down to C+ and with Sabers instinct she would be able to block it with Excaliblast. Or do it at close range which requires a stance and charge up so he can't do it without Cus agility and disengage in CQC and besides he never did any of this in canon. The only way he wins is by spamming broken phantasms which he doesn't do in character.
He can't use Gae Bolgs anti unti thrust technique at long range..... Unless you are going to tell me that Archer somehow learned how to modify how Gae Bolg rewrites causality..... He can only activate Gae Bolg if he throws it like Cu with its always hitting effect but it would be ranked down to C+ and with Sabers instinct she would be able to block it with Excaliblast. Or do it at close range which requires a stance and charge up so he can't do it without Cus agility and disengage in CQC and besides he never did any of this in canon. The only way he wins is by spamming broken phantasms which he doesn't do in character.
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I'm not saying that Archer is Shirou from the heavens feel
What I'm saying is that if Shirou could copy nine lives just using the knoledge and power of Archer then Archer can do it too
Also in a spin off Archer actually uses gaebolg and who says that it can't be rwisted to become an arrow like other weapons that Archer uses, even if it is a C+ weapon it can still rewrite causality and is not like a C- weapon was enough to one shot Saber Alter that has a higher endurance and with the distance Archer has time to shot a few times so even with her luck and instincts that is a dead sentence
What I'm saying is that if Shirou could copy nine lives just using the knoledge and power of Archer then Archer can do it too
Also in a spin off Archer actually uses gaebolg and who says that it can't be rwisted to become an arrow like other weapons that Archer uses, even if it is a C+ weapon it can still rewrite causality and is not like a C- weapon was enough to one shot Saber Alter that has a higher endurance and with the distance Archer has time to shot a few times so even with her luck and instincts that is a dead sentence
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Bcoz at that time Shirou has something to be copied, namely Berserker. Archer has nothing to copy to get Nine Lives in this fight. Hence he doesn't has it in this fight, not like he'll possess it normally anyway
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1.Shirou (Archer) can copy any weapon he has seen
2.Archer already lived trought the Grail war once so that means he has already seen the weapon before and can trace it
2.Archer already lived trought the Grail war once so that means he has already seen the weapon before and can trace it
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The Shirou in all of F/SN routes is different to the Shirou that became EMIYA. Check the circumstances when HF Shirou replicate Nine Lives again, HF Shirou is the only one who has NLBW. To say other iteration of Shirou and by extension Archer to possess NLBW without evidence is fallacious, simply put your argument is downright idiotic and you should just drop it. And in case that Archer somehow possess it, it would be irrelevant since NLBW is a complete shit compared to the real deal and it won't make any difference whatsoever in this match
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why wouldn't it make a difference I mean Shirou even copied the strenght of berserk and a 9 slash attack faster than sound is pretty powerfull enogh to kill Berserk at least
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Also: The beginning conditions for Archer's Holy Grail War were mostly the same as that of the Fate/stay night universe, but it could be said that "something was missing." The following events of the war happened in a similar manner to the Fate scenario, having summoned Saber and continued fighting together with her until the end, but while he understood her, he didn't "save Saber's heart." After they destroyed the Grail and parted, he went on to cooperate with Rin and headed to London.
So he saw Berserk and he has a copy of his weapon I mean they fight him the same night that he becomes master
So he saw Berserk and he has a copy of his weapon I mean they fight him the same night that he becomes master
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it is possible that Archer saw Nine Lives when he saw his version of the war, and can copy it. It is Berserker's main weapon after all, and unless there is a quote saying that Archer never Berserker in his timeline's war, it's actually quite likely that he saw it.
Of course, considering the rank down, I'm uncertain it could be used to beat Saber in combat, even with Archer's Eyes of the Mind supplementing it.
Although, this is Saber under Shirou's mastery, so she is severely crippled in terms of power, to the point I would say that using an excaliblast would be suicidal as Saber fades away hours later.
Of course, considering the rank down, I'm uncertain it could be used to beat Saber in combat, even with Archer's Eyes of the Mind supplementing it.
Although, this is Saber under Shirou's mastery, so she is severely crippled in terms of power, to the point I would say that using an excaliblast would be suicidal as Saber fades away hours later.
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What killed Berserker wasn't NLBW alone, it has something to do with Illya being there. Shirou himself almost lose even with NLBW in consideration. And Saber is not a Berserker, Archer pull that fanon shit you're spouting, she'll dodge it
Read what i wrote. You have eyes, you certaintly can read. Don't make yourself looks like an idiot.
Circumstances
There's no circumstance in both Fate route and UBW route that would led Shirou to replicate Berserker and obtaining NLBW. Hence they don't have it. And there's no exact detail as to what happened to Shirou that became EMIYA so there's 0 evidence of him possessing NLBW either.
simply put, just like Ramesses said earlier, Archer have 0 probability of having NLBW and he has 0 reason to try to attempt to do it now
And NLBW being a technique that can barely deliver 8 slashes with the 9th slash having a significant time lag already tells you how weak it is compared to the real deal.
Basically. Archer doesn't has it, he doesn't has any reason to try to obtain now, even if he somehow has it, it wouldn't make any difference because what hes fighting now is a Saber and not a Berserker
Tl;dr
Archer is not winning this. Your argument is basically a baseless fanon that heavily relies on speculation without further evidence backing it up. Thus whatever you said regarding Archer thus far is none other than irrelevant, moot points
Read what i wrote. You have eyes, you certaintly can read. Don't make yourself looks like an idiot.
Circumstances
There's no circumstance in both Fate route and UBW route that would led Shirou to replicate Berserker and obtaining NLBW. Hence they don't have it. And there's no exact detail as to what happened to Shirou that became EMIYA so there's 0 evidence of him possessing NLBW either.
simply put, just like Ramesses said earlier, Archer have 0 probability of having NLBW and he has 0 reason to try to attempt to do it now
And NLBW being a technique that can barely deliver 8 slashes with the 9th slash having a significant time lag already tells you how weak it is compared to the real deal.
Basically. Archer doesn't has it, he doesn't has any reason to try to obtain now, even if he somehow has it, it wouldn't make any difference because what hes fighting now is a Saber and not a Berserker
Tl;dr
Archer is not winning this. Your argument is basically a baseless fanon that heavily relies on speculation without further evidence backing it up. Thus whatever you said regarding Archer thus far is none other than irrelevant, moot points
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The circumstances required would simply be Archer Shirou seeing 9 lives in his own timeline's war, would it not? Is it really so impossible that Archer never once saw Berserker in his entire war?
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Read what happened in HF that led Shirou to copied Herakles' Nine Lives. Simply seeing Herakles isn't a reason enough to say he'll possess NLBW. It certaintly doesn't happen in Fate, it certaintly doesn't happen in UBW, the only time it happened was in HF, and there's also no proof of Archer actually possessing NLBW. Its unknown as to what exactly happening in HGW that the Shirou-that-will-become-EMIYA experienced to conclude that Archer having NLBW
Fate Shirou and UBW Shirou and by extension Archer could arguably use it. But there's simply no proof of it. Not to mention they prolly won't use it even if they can pull it off. And if Nine Lives Revolver scene is any indication, using NLBW still leaves the user very wide open to counterattack, which is not a good thing when you're fighting against an opponent like Saber
Fate Shirou and UBW Shirou and by extension Archer could arguably use it. But there's simply no proof of it. Not to mention they prolly won't use it even if they can pull it off. And if Nine Lives Revolver scene is any indication, using NLBW still leaves the user very wide open to counterattack, which is not a good thing when you're fighting against an opponent like Saber
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Ofc he has Gae Bolg, but it's not the ability of the weapon to rewrite causality it's the technique Cu uses with Gae Bolg that is a noble phantasm that does it and it is a close ranged attack.... If he projects Gae Bolg and fires it as a arrow he won't be able to use the causality effect because you have to use Cu's technique. And no he won't use it in CQC because he lacks Cu's speed and disengage in order to gain distance, take a stance, charge the attack before attack again. Seriously stop spouting nonsense Archer has never used Cu's causality attack.....Giovannimx said:
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Simply seeing the sword wouldn't give him Nine Lives and Berserker can't use Nine Lives anyway so there is a 0 probability of him seeing it or having it. Nine Lives isn't the Axe Sword it's the technique, he would need to trace Berserkers history in order to gain his skill, replicate his strength before projecting the axe sword in order to do a degraded version that goes from D-B+ that is much slower. Archer would never use it since not only is it a mere B+ Anti Unit Noble phantasm at best, it's much slower and requires a bunch of mana to use and can't function as a broken phantasm which is his main source of firepower.Monarch Laciel said:
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I think UBW trace the history of the weapons that Archer had seen (so that mean that NL technique is recorded in the Axe sword itself), store in UBW, wait for Archer to recreat it.
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He needs to replicate Hercs strength to be able swing the damn thing which he won't be able to do in CQC because it takes to long. Excalibur>>>UBW bladespam activation. Excalibur reaches Archer before he blade spams or uses Rho Aias.
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Archer hasn't even surpassed Lancer by the end of UBW, even if we combined his expierience from his two fights with him and started in UBW, how is Saber losing?!
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My vote goes for Archer. I think he having 4 kilometers of a distance is a way too advantage, besides Saber herself said it in Fate hollow ataraxia if he had Rin as a master by his side he would have won. Can somebody explaim me more about the conditions? Are there buildings with people around? Are their masters with them? Is Shirou experienced in tracing and does he have a Rho Aias? Also, any command seals that can be used?
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The fight is taking place in Archer's UBW. Can't remember if there were buildings there, but I do like the idea of that since they might be able to do fancy stuff. But nobody's around.LukeSky001 said:
Are their masters with them?
No.
Is Shirou experienced in tracing and does he have a Rho Aias?
Doesn't Archer already fulfill those conditions? This isn't Archer + Tohsaka vs Saber + Shirou. It's meant for Archer and Saber to have a good time alone.
Also, any command seals that can be used?
Hmm, no.
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Completely forgot about this. Dunno what bs I was saying in the earlier replies Saber always uses Mana Burst lol. Still voting Saber because Excalibur one shot and she can blitz and wreck him in CQC.
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I think that if Saber has to cross 4km even with mana burst that is not enough to just run over Archer and beat him I mean In fate hollow ataraxia I think that Shirou teleports her to the bridge to catch him off guard even if the excaly blast is able to reach him at that distance saber has to aim the blast hitting something at 4km is hard and she has one full powered shot or a few not so powerfull.
Also about Archer losing to lancer its true that he beat him but also note that he also beat Saber at the beginning and in both cases he uses his noble fantasm.
And I don't remember but is Saber able to activate and use Excalibur faster than wait it takes for The gate of babylone to spam her?
Also about Archer losing to lancer its true that he beat him but also note that he also beat Saber at the beginning and in both cases he uses his noble fantasm.
And I don't remember but is Saber able to activate and use Excalibur faster than wait it takes for The gate of babylone to spam her?
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Hmm, I guess I could add some pics. 
For the activation time for Excalibur, I think it's either a second or a few if Saber doesn't want to look cool or anything. I don't imagine she would, since she'd be under some kind of pressure from the blade spam.
For the activation time for Excalibur, I think it's either a second or a few if Saber doesn't want to look cool or anything. I don't imagine she would, since she'd be under some kind of pressure from the blade spam.
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True but she still has to scream EEEEXXCAAAALIIIBAAA is a requisit to use it. lol
So it should take her a fem more seconds
And considering that creating and firing swords inside UDW is faster thah the gate (Hell in the time that a weapom is shot from GOB Shirou can see it store it recreate it and fire fast enough to overhelm Gill), I think that it's posible to hit her before she uses her noble fantasm
So it should take her a fem more seconds
And considering that creating and firing swords inside UDW is faster thah the gate (Hell in the time that a weapom is shot from GOB Shirou can see it store it recreate it and fire fast enough to overhelm Gill), I think that it's posible to hit her before she uses her noble fantasm
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Im leaning towards Saber who has higher stats as a servant in general. UBW is archer's trump card and it is a reality marble with magical copies of swords being spammed. It is not very impressive to what saber has a noble phantasm and it can be avoided by magic resistance. I wouldn't compare UBW to GOB because there is a huge gap in power and quality between the two. The fight in the UBW anime didn't even have Gil fully equipped and the ending fight looked like it was forced by the plot.
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Magic resistance doesn't protect her against noble fantasms that why she can be for example be defeated by a pair of kanshou and byakuga also she can be defeated with a single shot from cadabolg 2
And about the stats I think that he can reinforce his body using his magecraft skill so that gap is not as abysmal
And about UBW y GOB the only advantage that UBW has is its speed thats why Shirou manages to beat Gilgamesh he took too long to pull out Ea
And about the stats I think that he can reinforce his body using his magecraft skill so that gap is not as abysmal
And about UBW y GOB the only advantage that UBW has is its speed thats why Shirou manages to beat Gilgamesh he took too long to pull out Ea
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Archer isn't even Lancer level let alone Saber level.
Saber wins via CQC and Excaliblast
Saber wins via CQC and Excaliblast
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Archer isn't even at gimped Lancer due to being summoned in Japan and having Kirei as a master level.
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We are talking abot Saber with Shirou She was defeated by lancer
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Look Creating and firing a sword at supersonic speed is faster than her screaming excalibur also she is not able to block the swords from hitting her with wind because is isnt strong enoughf Example Shirou is able to stan beside her when using her noble fantasm against Rider in Fate withou being flungby the wind
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That too.Ramesses the Sun King said:
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If either of them go into spirit form, would they be unaffected by attacks from each other? Since they'd be intangible.
Technically, they can materialize somewhere else to evade attacks from each other, right?
Technically, they can materialize somewhere else to evade attacks from each other, right?
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Don't think they can do that Mid fight
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Okay. I could have sworn I'd seen it used as an argument in other threads.
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I mean they are already in UBW so he can spam her with a multidirectional attack that she has no way of blocking at 4kReppuzan said:
and she has to aim the blast at a target at 4km that is something that she simply canot do
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Or she just blocks his attacks which she 100% can, and kills him then with Excalibur...Giovannimx said:
But hey why easy if we can also let the inferior one win, by just saying the superior one can't do things she obviously can.
Archer has zero buisness fighting Saber without prep and a extremely good plan, end of story.
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