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Questioning the legitimacy of High 6-A Devil May Cry

CinCameron20

CinCameron20

5,107
1,786
I'll get right to it, then:

The reasoning for High 6-A for the top tiers of the verse comes from, what I can see, a calculation from the anime where Abigail opens a portal into the demon world, releasing demons, and more importantly, "pushes away" large clouds that engulf a large portion of the planet's sky. The value came out as 172.4 Petatons of Tnt, so yeah, High 6-A, but here's the issue:

The energy value comes as an after-effect of the portal being open, which is reality-warping. Abigail did not show any implication of pushing them away when the portal was made. As seen from the anime, Abigail is shooting out beams, blowing up portions of the city while the 'clouds' simply 'vanish' in the background despite showing up later throughout the rest of the episode. Nothing the clouds being "blown away". Also, later in the same episode, there are small clouds in the sky that can be seen both before and after this feat takes place, so now I'm left doubting the legitimacy of this feat.

Edit: ^ The above paragraph was edited considering I got the entire feat argument wrong xD. Slap me.

Either way, this feat came from a portal opened by Abigail, not Abigail himself, and as seen later in the episode, there's not a single showing of clear skies. And even then, this is a massive outlier, seeing as how he has only shown lower end tier 7 feats, there are only tier 7 feats in the entire verse disregarding this one (base-line 7-B being the highest iirc), and many other issues already presented with this.

Even if someone can argue the legitimacy of this feat, no one can argue why we should accept a feat this questionable, considering there are no clouds to be seen immediately after this, and especially since it is billions of times more powerful than anything else accepted on the wiki by equal or higher tier characters--an outlier of ridiculous proportions.


(Small Edit: Apparently the feat regards the clouds being "blown away", not made... but I still argue against that in the thread. I edited the 2nd paragraph accordingly)
 
@Rebuble - "an effect of a portal, and the portal was created by Abigail" - Creating a portal to another world that results in immediate change in the climate does not scale to AP, it is reality warping. And again, the clouds are no where to be seen immediately after this showing.
 
Now that makes it even more unbelievable that this feat is reliable, because before the portal was even opened, moments before Abigail's body is revealed:

Here's on shot of the sky, showing almost no clouds in the sky

here's another shot of the sky directly above Abigail, again, NO clouds other then two small ones

Agai

Agai

Here's the frame where the feat comes from: It comes literally out of NO WHERE, so no clouds are being blown back (The white ones that engulf most of the sky on the planet in general don't even move, or show any sign of moving). It's just darkness emanating from the portal from the looks of it. Definitely not clouds considering there were NONE before the feat, and NONE after.
 
ZERO said that the time gap between the Anime and 2 is not that large, so Anime Dante powerscaling wise is not far weaker to 2, so whatenever the char. like Mundus are scaled Anime Dante and Abigail should not be that far below them. DMC5 could provide feats, if not we could use the noted other stuff since the island destruction one is weak to me.
 
@Rebuble - it's links to Episode 12 of the anime. If you can find the episode, it would make more sense, but if not, i can take screenshots of the exact time-stamps I took.

@Dark - I don't see the relevance, considering all character equal or stronger than Abigail are scaling from this feat in question.

Also, the feats from DMC5 are not tier 6 level. I wont be providing evidence yet as I'm sure no one here wants to be spoiled on the content of the game (but the final trailer basically shows what's to be expected from the "best feat" in the game, which is arguably only 7-A)
 
If you are referring to the clouds that were "blown away" that were purely white and can be seen from space, they didn't even move, so I have no idea how this relates (all that can be seen is the mark made from the portal, not the ground with the exception of the center, which was already visible in the first place), especially when, again, it would have been a result of opening the portal, not Abigail blasting said clouds away.
 
Are we talking about the same feat? Try looking from the very first frame at 7:09 mark. One second clouds are there, other second they are not.
 
Again, you are referring to when the darkness appears, and apparently, according to you, the clouds "vanish", correct? (Also, wrong time-stamp)

They don't even move, and are simply engulfed in darkness. All that's visible around where they STILL ARE is the mark from the portal, not the ground.

Also, again, any small amount of clouds that were in the sky BEFORE the "feat" are still there AFTER the "feat"
 
Okay, my bad. The video I was using did not show it like that at all (it literally just went black), however, it doesn't really support the feat. There's 3 points I'd like to re-iterate.

1) Again, what does this have to do with Abigail's AP, when this is an environmental effect that was a result of a portal to the demon world being open,

2) Outlier argument, considering this is Billions (172Petatons vs Base-line[?] City level as the 2nd highest feat) of time more powerful than ANY feat calculated on the wiki or presented by top tiers.

I know this is last, but read this first xD 3 and most important regarding this feat as a whole) I'd like to point out that the clouds in the sky are still shown immediately after they "vanished" in the episode throughout. Using your video link, so that you can see it:

Here, some clouds visible in the sky

Here

here and so on.

It's just very contradicting in itself. The clouds weren't "blown away", they just vanished, yet they didn't because we can still see clouds in the area for the rest of the episode.
 
1) Again, the portal was created by Abigail, and said portal blows away the clouds. Abigail scales.

2) Doesn't work, since Abigail was stated to rival Mundus, who threatened the entire world (I know this was actually Sid, but we're shown at least a fraction of what Abigail was capable of, which contextually makes sense, considering Mundus' status). Dante also easily dispatched Argosax in DMC2, which takes place soon after the anime.

Also, just saying. but you may as well downgrade the Persona 3 cast, since most of them scale to a single 4-A feat, while only scaling to a Tier 7 entity prior.

3) We don't know the timeframe between the feat and the timestamps you've given. The clouds might have already reformed themselves, which is fair to assume since they're relatively small.
 
1) As I already stated, this is reality warping, and a result of a portal opening into another world affecting the planet. Opening a portal does not scale the feat to Abigail because said portal resulted in changes to a large portion of the planet.

2) ? The point I was making is that this feat is billions of times higher than anything anyone else has shown. Griffon may be low-tier trash, but even Mundus doesn't have anything above tier 7 in feats. Argosax doesn't have any impressive feats in terms of value. Abigail's direct AP feats of blasting the city are arguably the best we've seen from him, and still nothing compared to the feat in question.

3) This argument isn't reliable, considering it had to have taken up to minutes after the feat. The next time we see the sky is just over a minute in screen-time, and Morrison and Patty are still trying to make their way up through the building. This implies a VERY VERY small amount of time passing by, and it takes upwards of hours for clouds to form in the night-sky.
 
I'd also like to point out that the cloud thing is a huge nitpick and that they're not only small, but thin as well.
 
And Again, the clouds are not shown being blown away, but vanish. The clouds don't even move an inch on-screen. They vanish, and the parts that don't are not moving. This does not support them being "blown away". The clouds are still in the same spots they were (arguably slightly denser) when we see the sky again AFTER the feat just before Lady and Trish attack Abigail.
 
Context is important here. Considering the God tiers of the verse have literally billions of times weaker showings than a, mildly put, questionable feat, it does look like a outlier.
 
GilgaArcuied said:
Context is important here. Considering the God tiers of the verse have literally billions of times weaker showings than a, mildly put, questionable feat, it does look like a outlier.
Click to expand...
It looks like you're the one missing the context here. Those with "billions of times weaker showings" are not god-tiers, far from it.
 
I agree, this doesn't seem like a direct effect of his power. If all he did was open a portal I can't really see how that could be treated as AP. Certainly wouldn't scale to striking strength at least, from what I recall we treat a few characters this way, Fujitora's meteorites not scaling to his striking strength, FT's Etherion which had a similar issue but at least a argument could be made for that to scale. For now I'll be neutral until I hear a good point for it being AP but until then I'm leaning on this not having AP.
 
I do think direct AP feats from Mundus and Abigail should be calculated, as they should yield tier 7 results, but that's after this feat discussion is done.

DMC5's strongest feat (and I can confirm this) takes place as shown in the Final Trailer, and it's probably Mountain level to POSSIBLY Large Mountain Level done by what's definitely a top tier (Looking at KE or PE, but I'll let calc group deal with it). Still absolutely nothing compared to what this calculation implies, especially since the clouds are now shown being blown away, or even move. They just vanish on-screen.
 
CinCameron20 said:
1) As I already stated, this is reality warping
Click to expand...
Opening the portal is. The clouds being blown away is not.

2) ? The point I was making is that this feat is billions of times higher than anything anyone else has shown. Griffon may be low-tier trash, but even Mundus doesn't have anything above tier 7 in feats. Argosax doesn't have any impressive feats in terms of value. Abigail's direct AP feats of blasting the city are arguably the best we've seen from him, and still nothing compared to the feat in question.

What's your point with this? That the character has to show the superior feats in order to qualify as a superior entity? That's absurd.

And like I said, being the highest feat != outlier.

3) This argument isn't reliable, considering it had to have taken up to minutes after the feat. The next time we see the sky is just over a minute in screen-time, and Morrison and Patty are still trying to make their way up through the building. This implies a VERY VERY small amount of time passing by, and it takes upwards of hours for clouds to form in the night-sky.

Not exactly correct. By this logic, the night only spanned for roughly an hour, which is ridiculous for obvious reasons.
 
It looks like you're the one missing the context here. Those with "billions of times weaker showings" are not god-tiers, far from it.

No, Mundus, Argo, Dante (who are stronger than Abigail) have displayed feats far weaker than this fraction of Abigail's power. Abigail himself only shows some large explosions with his beams, in contrast to these clouds being "blown away", which again, vanish on screen and don't show any actual KE or implication of having moved out of place.
 
RebubleUselet said:
GilgaArcuied said:
Context is important here. Considering the God tiers of the verse have literally billions of times weaker showings than a, mildly put, questionable feat, it does look like a outlier.
Click to expand...
It looks like you're the one missing the context here. Those with "billions of times weaker showings" are not god-tiers, far from it.
Click to expand...
the next best feat would be billions of times weaker, if i'm to believe Cins judgement on the proximate value of the calc. Mundus is a god tier, no?
 
It doesn't even make sense if the cloud is being blown away at Sub-relativistic speed but then it completely stop 1 second later. Those cloud is vanish makes much more sense to me.
 
CinCameron20 said:
No, Mundus, Argo, Dante (who are stronger than Abigail) have displayed feats far weaker than this fraction of Abigail's power. Abigail himself only shows some large explosions with his beams, in contrast to these clouds being "blown away", which again, vanish on screen and don't show any actual KE or implication of having moved out of place.
Click to expand...
I do not recall any feats from Mundus, aside from that stellar thing (which is not exactly a feat, I know) and Mallet Island' self-destruction, which was caused by a bunch of Tier 8 explosions.

And again, the clouds have to go somewhere, they wouldn't just disappear.
 
Also, Dante has 0 feats beyond Tier 8 on his own, and arguing for that is ridiculous as well. Argosax has not displayed any feats, but it had to be sealed by Sparda, who couldn't defeat him fair and square.
 
Doesn't matter if it even disappeared or moved via KE anyway, since it should be deemed a outlier. I would like to hear counterarguments as to why it isn't.

Oh, and "High end feats doesn't = Outlier" It can and most certainly does, especially to outlandish degrees such as this.
 
I can settle with the feat being recalculated, although Kepekley says it's fine as it is, so I'd like him to be asked about it as well if the feat is to be recalced.
 
@Rebuble

1) ... The portal opening resulted in the clouds vanishing. Again, they did not get blown away. And again, it does not scale to AP if it is a feat resulted from A (Abigail) creating B (Portal, which isn't even a physical manifestation, and connects two worlds) resulting in C (Clouds vanishing). Therefore A caused C is wrong.

2) No? Mundus scales above Griffon, who has a 7-B feat (cus Mundus literally murders him and is a superior challenge to Dante), but I'm saying Mundus has no feat above 7-B and thus nothing comparable to this High 6-A feat.

3) Yes, the time-frame is sketchy, but an argument for seconds can be made just as easily as an argument for something like 3 to 4 hours. The point is that the clouds in the sky are still there between the time we see Lady and Trish START to fight demons (just before said feat), to the next time we see them fighting them (1 minute of screen-time, and around the time it takes for Patty and Morrison to get stopped by the fire in the building), and then later have Lady/Trish attack Abigail some time later. The time-frame between them starting to fight before Patty and Morrison have to deal with the fire in the building could NOT have taken an hour, for example.
 
CinCameron20 said:
@Rebuble
1)

2)

3)
Click to expand...
1) Uh no, it's more like: A caused B, B caused C, therefore A caused C.

2) You forgot to note that Mundus's avatar literally murdered Griffon like it was nothing, which means he's way, way above him.

3) Two wrongs don't make a right. If the timeframe is sketchy, you cannot make an arbitrary assumption, so this point doesn't disprove anything.
 
@Matt - Being "Far, far above the other characters" doesn't justify the fact that this calculation is wrong (claims clouds being blown away, but they vanish, and no implication of movement, therefore no KE), it being BILLIONS of times superior to ANY feat performed by any other high/top tier, and is a result of a portal being opened by Abigail, yet the clouds are still visible 1 minute later.

So, you don't be ridiculous and claim that I am being ridiculous despite bringing SEVERAL points to the table.
 
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