Itachi Uchiha vs Zeref Dragneel (19-10-0)

[Zeinx1]

But Itachi doesn't kill him, he can't physically harm him in any way.

Also Itachi can do genjutsu without even looking at his opponent, I don't know if there's much to argue about that. Itachi is superior in a first hit wins battle.

Zeref can passively turn back time against genjutsu, and zeref's first move is death predation, which I explained here

It doesn't matter zeref immortality 7 can negate + regen up to mid godly can negate

Looking at the rules, I see a distance of 10 metres, which is the perfect range for Zeref's death predator to work.

Zeref's death predation has 1 tier in vsb and can destroy mid god + immortality.

Zeref can recover from any genjutsu by rewinding time against any genjutsu, if you re-roll, as soon as the battle starts zeref's primary attack is death predation, which is death manipulation. So zeref will passively rewind time at most 1 time and get rid of it, and then the death manipulation will be ez gg wp.

Zeref's death predation not only kills, but also removes the soul from the body, so this is a wincon in every way.

In addition, even Zeref's aura can paralyse and incapacitate Itachi, and I explained the timeline here.

Now let's get to the neo eclipse.

Zeref can delete/re-create the timeline

For Naruto fans who will ask what this is for, I have some things to tell you.

Zeref can completely erase the timeline where he fights Itachi, meaning that Zeref can directly erase Itachi and create a timeline 400 years before Itachi existed.

Zeref literally kicks Itachi's ass.

geor selam naber

 

[Zeinx1]

As if Itachi fans underestimate Zeref's greatest attack, Neo Eclipse lol

 

[Zeinx1]

Ok but you’re saying his strategies are based on analyzing how they act in battle. This is the start of a battle

So more specifically, in a 1v1 fight, has he ever began by foreseeing what specific ability his opponent will most likely start with despite never seeing their abilities before?

Because the thing about Mavis is she memorized all those things. She didn’t foresee them

Yeah so if Zeref only rewinds time to revive himself then it makes sense why he’d use it that way against Natsu. How is he using that if the attack isn’t meant to kill but to target his mind? Has he used it in this way before?

In SBA, the characters observe each other and know their powers a little bit, so zeref can understand what he will do.

This is something about the rules mate and Mavis did this and that's why it's called fairy tactician, but zeref is smarter than bluis, anyway there is no need to get into the subject of intelligence.

Zeref can rewind time not only to revive himself, zeref can rewind time in all kinds of ways, zeref also rewound the wall of the guild, if we look at this logic, zeref can rewind genjutsu or itachi.

Zeref has complete control over time and zeref can do anything with time.

(such as deleting timeline, recreating timeline, stopping time, rewinding time)

Zeref doesn't just rewind to revive himself, but he can do that, or he can just rewind something, depending entirely on Zeref's current state of winning, such as rewinding passive space.

 

[PatatesR]

Zeref can passively turn back time against genjutsu, and zeref's first move is death predation, which I explained here

Zeref's death predation not only kills, but also removes the soul from the body, so this is a wincon in every way.

In addition, even Zeref's aura can paralyse and incapacitate Itachi, and I explained the timeline here.

geor selam naber

Brother, you probably don't understand that genjutsu is not an attack that destroys the body, so Zeref cannot go back in time.

 

[Floxy178]

Zeref can rewind time not only to revive himself, zeref can rewind time in all kinds of ways, zeref also rewound the wall of the guild, if we look at this logic, zeref can rewind genjutsu or itachi.

As I understood only reviving part is passive, isn't it?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Voting Zeref FRA

Also the assumption that Zeref’s time rewind only works if he is harmed is completely lacking in evidence. I don’t know why this claim is being made

 

[ssgengar]

In SBA, the characters observe each other and know their powers a little bit, so zeref can understand what he will do.

Observing each other doesn’t just mean they’re going to read what powers they specifically use though, unless they’ve done that before

This is something about the rules mate and Mavis did this and that's why it's called fairy tactician, but zeref is smarter than bluis, anyway there is no need to get into the subject of intelligence.

When did Mavis do this?

Zeref can rewind time not only to revive himself, zeref can rewind time in all kinds of ways, zeref also rewound the wall of the guild, if we look at this logic, zeref can rewind genjutsu or itachi.

You say “in all kinds of ways” but the only example you gave wasn’t performed during combat. Unless I’m mistaken here

Zeref has complete control over time and zeref can do anything with time.

(such as deleting timeline, recreating timeline, stopping time, rewinding time)

How often does he start a fight this way?

Zeref doesn't just rewind to revive himself, but he can do that, or he can just rewind something, depending entirely on Zeref's current state of winning, such as rewinding passive space.

How often is this used in combat? Especially against mental attacks that don’t destroy the body? To make it even worse Itachi often applies Genjutsu before the fight even really starts

 

[PatatesR]

Voting Zeref FRA

Also the assumption that Zeref’s time rewind only works if he is harmed is completely lacking in evidence. I don’t know why this claim is being made

We make our interpretation through profiles.

 

[Zeinx1]

Brother, you probably don't understand that genjutsu is not an attack that destroys the body, so Zeref cannot go back in time.

I hope you know that zeref won't work against space and time magic unless the genjutsu is 4d (because space and time magic is 4d).

While inside the genjutsu, zeref can passively rewind his own time, so it shouldn't be hard to understand that he will rewind himself back in the timeline.

In addition, what makes you think that zeref will be involved in the genjutsu? Zeref will crush itachi before that, gg wp.

Zeref can also go to sbt from inside the genjutsu.
In addition, zeref will know how to get rid of genjutsu by energising from the outside (due to the sba rule).

Therefore zeref can save himself from genjutsu even with a summoning with this in mind.

Though itachi will be paralysed as soon as he detects Zeref.

As I understood only reviving part is passive, isn't it?

No, zeref's passive will work according to the situation, if there was a seal, he could get rid of that seal in the same way (If his body disappears, think of it as rewinding to get his body)

In short, it will rewind to whatever it needs at that moment.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We make our interpretation through profiles.

But it’s an “interpretation” that’s just straight up incorrect, yet it’s being used as an actual argument

 

[ssgengar]

Voting Zeref FRA

Also the assumption that Zeref’s time rewind only works if he is harmed is completely lacking in evidence. I don’t know why this claim is being made

I mean genuine question though, has he ever used it in combat to do anything other than that? His profile does specify that it’s used if his body gets destroyed

 

[Zeinx1]

Observing each other doesn’t just mean they’re going to read what powers they specifically use though, unless they’ve done that before

When did Mavis do this?

You say “in all kinds of ways” but the only example you gave wasn’t performed during combat. Unless I’m mistaken here

How often does he start a fight this way?

No, it comes with knowledge of the opposing verse and zeref will have full knowledge of things like taijutsu genjutsu ninjutsu.
It doesn't really matter, but blues is a trapper character and that's how he won most of his battles.

If I have to say exactly arc, zero arc

Dude, you're the one who said zeref can only roll like that, shouldn't you prove it?

If he wants to win, why not start? this character will do everything he can to win (his first attack is normally death predation, but as soon as he detects zeref, the battle ends without even using his first attack because itachi will be paralysed)

How often is this used in combat? Especially against mental attacks that don’t destroy the body? To make it even worse Itachi often applies Genjutsu before the fight even really starts

As I said, if he wants to win, he can use it in any way he wants. And yes, he can do that too. You look at it like "itachi will think of everything and do everything, but zeref will only watch

Zeref will know about Itachi, Zeref will know about genjutsu, Zeref will know about genjutsu, so my friend, Zeref will be able to get rid of genjutsu, do not underestimate the intelligence of Zeref.

 

[Zeinx1]

Zeref is a master at understanding the nature of any magic, he will understand genjutsu in the same way, from verse equalling and knowing the verse and knowing the character, he will probably figure out its entire nature and win this battle accordingly.

 

[Chardee.wl]

Brother, you probably don't understand that genjutsu is not an attack that destroys the body, so Zeref cannot go back in time.

It can regenerate not only when its body disappears, but also under normal conditions. Zeref did not know that his body would disappear, but despite this, he was aware of this ability that his form brought, and that is why he ignored Natsu's attack and then rewinded his body in time.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I mean genuine question though, has he ever used it in combat to do anything other than that? His profile does specify that it’s used if his body gets destroyed

The form wasn’t present for long, so he’s never shown, no. The profile only says that because that’s the only time his rewind is shown. But this is a character that verbatim has complete domination over time and space. You have to make more assumptions to claim his rewind is limited to when he’s hit. Not to mention, such a limitation is never even remotely implied.

You’re basically taking a headcanon and treating it as fact

 

[PatatesR]

The form wasn’t present for long, so he’s never shown, no. The profile only says that because that’s the only time his rewind is shown. But this is a character that verbatim has complete domination over time and space. You have to make more assumptions to claim his rewind is limited to when he’s hit. Not to mention, such a limitation is never even remotely implied.

You’re basically taking a headcanon and treating it as fact

We do not argue whether the information in the profile is true or false. We interpret the war according to the information in the profile. If you claim that the information is wrong, open a revision.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We do not argue whether the information in the profile is true or false. We interpret the war according to the information in the profile. If you claim that the information is wrong, open a revision.

No, my claim is that your interpretation of what’s on the profile is objectively incorrect. I don’t need to make a revision to ensure misinformation isn’t being spread, thank you

 

[ssgengar]

No, it comes with knowledge of the opposing verse and zeref will have full knowledge of things like taijutsu genjutsu ninjutsu.
It doesn't really matter, but blues is a trapper character and that's how he won most of his battles.

Knowledge of the opposing verse doesn’t mean Zeref is going to know Itachi’s specific move set lol

If I have to say exactly arc, zero arc

Is this the same example that’s shown in her profile under Analytical Prediction?

Dude, you're the one who said zeref can only roll like that, shouldn't you prove it?

Prove what? That he hasn’t used it in the way you’re saying he will in this fight? Is it not up to you to support that claim by showing me an example

If he wants to win, why not start? this character will do everything he can to win (his first attack is normally death predation, but as soon as he detects zeref, the battle ends without even using his first attack because itachi will be paralysed)

Did he not want to win the other fights he’s actually been in? What’s the difference here

As I said, if he wants to win, he can use it in any way he wants. And yes, he can do that too. You look at it like "itachi will think of everything and do everything, but zeref will only watch

Again, didn’t he want to win the fights he’s already been in? How did he start those? If with Death Predation then I’m not sure why you assume he’d start with time based attacks if it’s out of character for him to do that. Try not to assume how I’m looking at this match up btw, I asked more questions about Zeref than I directly supported Itachi here

Zeref will know about Itachi, Zeref will know about genjutsu, Zeref will know about genjutsu, so my friend, Zeref will be able to get rid of genjutsu, do not underestimate the intelligence of Zeref.

Maybe I’m blind but I don’t see where in SBA it says that characters will have knowledge past their opponent’s direction or appearance/form. This isn’t just an intelligence based thing that you’re arguing, so I really don’t think I’m underestimating him in that regard

 

[ssgengar]

The form wasn’t present for long, so he’s never shown, no. The profile only says that because that’s the only time his rewind is shown. But this is a character that verbatim has complete domination over time and space. You have to make more assumptions to claim his rewind is limited to when he’s hit. Not to mention, such a limitation is never even remotely implied.

You’re basically taking a headcanon and treating it as fact

Wait so if this is the case then why didn’t the marks from the face punches he took go away?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Wait so if this is the case then why didn’t the marks from the face punches he took go away?

Well that might have to do with Natsu burning away his magic in that final clash (in fact, when Natsu defeated him, he couldn’t heal for a while - long enough for Mavis to kill him)

 

[ssgengar]

Well that might have to do with Natsu burning away his magic in that final clash (in fact, when Natsu defeated him, he couldn’t heal for a while - long enough for Mavis to kill him)

Well sure but the damage he took happened before that clash and multiple pages went by, yet the marks stayed.

At the beginning Zeref took the same attack that Natsu later used to win yet he quickly reformed from it. So I think it’s hard to say exactly how his Rewind would respond against Itachi when he healed faster against a stronger attack than weaker ones, but then healed slower against the same attack later on (If he ever even healed from those weaker ones at all)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well sure but the damage he took happened before that clash and multiple pages went by, yet the marks stayed.

At the beginning Zeref took the same attack that Natsu later used to win yet he quickly reformed from it. So I think it’s hard to say exactly how his Rewind would respond against Itachi when he healed faster against a stronger attack than weaker ones, but then healed slower against the same attack later on (If he ever even healed from those weaker ones at all)

It’s not the same in potency, no. Natsu’s Dragon Force + Fire Dragon King Mode is far inferior to his Blaze of Savage Emotions, which is stated to burn time itself

 

[ssgengar]

Blaze of Savage Emotions

Is this an amp he got right before the final clash? Or before the punches he threw

 

[Zeinx1]

Knowledge of the opposing verse doesn’t mean Zeref is going to know Itachi’s specific move set lol

Is this the same example that’s shown in her profile under Analytical Prediction?

Both zeref is knowledgeable about the counter verse and about itachi... so isn't it normal for zeref to itachi to know the attacks.

I'm not advocating analytical prediction, but zeref knows that itachi will use genjutsu.Prove what? That he hasn’t used it in the way you’re saying he will in this fight? Is it not up to you to support that claim by showing me an example

Did he not want to win the other fights he’s actually been in? What’s the difference here

Again, didn’t he want to win the fights he’s already been in? How did he start those? If with Death Predation then I’m not sure why you assume he’d start with time based attacks if it’s out of character for him to do that. Try not to assume how I’m looking at this match up btw, I asked more questions about Zeref than I directly supported Itachi here

Dude, I don't need to prove anything to you, you need to prove it to me, like clover said above.

We haven't seen that much of fairy heart zeref, I hope you know that.

Normal base zeref starts with death predation, but this is not normal zeref, it is not possible to predict what it will do. In the same way, when Zeref first acquired the fairy heart form, his primary attack was to rewind time.

Maybe I’m blind but I don’t see where in SBA it says that characters will have knowledge past their opponent’s direction or appearance/form. This isn’t just an intelligence based thing that you’re arguing, so I really don’t think I’m underestimating him in that regard

Spoiler: SBA

Knowledge of the other character/verse: The characters know the direction their opponent(s) start in. Furthermore, they get knowledge of the character's appearance, equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch (or equivalent). It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s), so abilities like Information Analysis can not be used based on this knowledge. Negative effects of the observation, such as those caused by Madness Manipulation Type 3, are assumed to not apply for this knowledge either. Aside from this, the characters have no knowledge of each other.

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses. It is also important to note that characters won't lose or gain any abilities or resistances which they do or do not inherently possess. However, if an ability has a weakness, condition, caveat, or limitation, consistently shown throughout its use (such as not working on characters under a specific condition, like energy gap) or stated by a valid and uncontradicted statement, then it should be applicable after the equalization.

Zeref, by the way, if I need to mention one more wincon, zeref has sealing and this seal is a conceptual seal ''Sealing (Can completely seal magics like the Space Between Time)''

Itachi can't fight back or do anything about it.

In addition to the death manip

create and delete timeline

As soon as the war started, Itachi began to be paralysed by Zeref's aura.

rewind time and space negate genjutsu, but anyway, I hope you understand.

But genjutsu does

 

[Robo432343]

this thread has traumatized me for life...im asking this to be closed

 

[CloverDragon03]

Is this an amp he got right before the final clash? Or before the punches he threw

Before the punches he threw. It’s basically a massive emotion amp beyond any of his other forms he can use by himself

 

[Eganergo]

Genjutsu FRA.

 

[ssgengar]

Both zeref is knowledgeable about the counter verse and about itachi... so isn't it normal for zeref to itachi to know the attacks.

That’s not what SBA says

I'm not advocating analytical prediction, but zeref knows that itachi will use genjutsu.Prove what? That he hasn’t used it in the way you’re saying he will in this fight? Is it not up to you to support that claim by showing me an example

Then why’d you bring up Mavis and umm not sure if this was an accident but you just copied what I said word for word lmao

Dude, I don't need to prove anything to you, you need to prove it to me, like clover said above.

We haven't seen that much of fairy heart zeref, I hope you know that.

Normal base zeref starts with death predation, but this is not normal zeref, it is not possible to predict what it will do. In the same way, when Zeref first acquired the fairy heart form, his primary attack was to rewind time.

Did you not make the claim? And that wasn’t an attack, it was him reforming from the damage he took from Natsu

Spoiler: SBA

I don’t see any mention of knowing the opposing character’s or verse’s abilities

Zeref, by the way, if I need to mention one more wincon, zeref has sealing and this seal is a conceptual seal ''Sealing (Can completely seal magics like the Space Between Time)''

Itachi can't fight back or do anything about it.

In addition to the death manip

create and delete timeline

Cool, has he started with these before?

As soon as the war started, Itachi began to be paralysed by Zeref's aura.

Zeref’s paralysis is done through fear, which Itachi has resistance to

rewind time and space negate genjutsu, but anyway, I hope you understand.

But genjutsu does

Yeah you’ve been saying this. But as far as I’m concerned you haven’t proven that it comes into play in any given circumstance that’s unfavorable for Zeref

 

[ssgengar]

Before the punches he threw. It’s basically a massive emotion amp beyond any of his other forms he can use by himself

Then I guess my only issue is if Zeref’s Time Magic was affected before the final clash, why is it only stated as it was happening?

Like it only became clear that time was burning and that Natsu’s soul was being incinerated at this moment. Sure the power amp is obviously there, but it doesn’t seem Zeref’s magic was actually affected until the very end

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Put me down for Zeref atm.

 

[Robo432343]

zeref is multiversal

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Zeref's profile states that he rewinds time as PASSIVE, there is no other explanation, it is unquestionably passive.

Oh no... That doesn't mean he'll use it offensively..

Dude... I don't know how many times I will tell you this, but Zeref will foresee this attack thanks to analytical prediction and information analysis and will attack accordingly. As we know, Zeref is the smartest character in Fairy Tail and it is inevitable that he will see such a thing and attack accordingly. So, despite all this, why shouldn't he use these skills offensively?

okay but can Zeref do this? Also, can he predict attacks like Itachi?

 

[KremcikGorv]

Counter Hax ignores the massive AP and Hax majority in between. By the way, since Itachi certainly has tremendous intelligence, he will just keep Zeref in genjutsu. According to SBA rules, leaving the opponent immobile for 1 hour is a victory condition. In addition, Itachi does not have stamina problems in this form, which means that he will move much more easily than when he is alive.
Itachi fra.

Itachi fra

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

zeref is multiversal

İtachi fra

you may have forgotten to add this

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Itachi fra

 

[Emmi_FOREVER]

Itachi fra

 

[Chardee.wl]

Oh no... That doesn't mean he'll use it offensively..

If you are aware, I was telling you that it was passive and according to SBA rules, the characters are aware of each other and have knowledge, so Zeref can use this attack offensively against genjutsu.

okay but can Zeref do this? Also, can he predict attacks like

Yes he can, why can't he? He is already the smartest person in Fairy Tail and analytical prediction is already useful in predicting attacks. Additionally, information analysis

 

[Floxy178]

Spoiler: SBA Knowledge of the other character/verse: The characters know the direction their opponent(s) start in. Furthermore, they get knowledge of the character's appearance, equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch (or equivalent). It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s), so abilities like Information Analysis can not be used based on this knowledge. Negative effects of the observation, such as those caused by Madness Manipulation Type 3, are assumed to not apply for this knowledge either. Aside from this, the characters have no knowledge of each other.

"It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s), so abilities like Information Analysis can not be used based on this knowledge."

I hope you know that zeref won't work against space and time magic unless the genjutsu is 4d (because space and time magic is 4d).

What do you mean by genjutsu won't work against space-time magic? Zeref himself isn't a 4d being so why he shouldn't be affected?

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

If you are aware, I was telling you that it was passive and according to SBA rules, the characters are aware of each other and have knowledge, so Zeref can use this attack offensively against genjutsu.

Furthermore, they get knowledge of the character's appearance, equivalent to the knowledge they could have gained if they would have been allowed to briefly observe the form opponent(s) starting in using their senses of sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch (or equivalent). It's assumed that they only get the information necessary to identify the opponent(s), so abilities like Information Analysis can not be used based on this knowledge. Aside from this, the characters have no knowledge of each other.

Also, if I have to add, Zeref cannot use this offensively. As stated in the profile, he can rewind the moment he dies. You should stop calling it "passive", it has nothing to do with passive anyway. If it were a passive hax, you wouldn't be arguing with others that you could choose and use it even now.

Yes he can, why can't he? He is already the smartest person in Fairy Tail and analytical prediction is already useful in predicting attacks. Additionally, information analysis

Okay, I just want you to provide evidence regarding this, can Zeref analyze his enemies only in big battles like Mavis, can he be aware of his opponent's strength in a battle?

 

[Robo432343]

Also, if I have to add, Zeref cannot use this offensively. As stated in the profile, he can rewind the moment he dies. You should stop calling it "passive", it has nothing to do with passive anyway. If it were a passive hax, you wouldn't be arguing with others that you could choose and use it even now.

it says on the profile its passive tho