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I’ll ask this to be closed 
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Aizen Sosuke VS Zeref Dragneel
- Thread starter poyraz
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Twisted_Little_Raven
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Right but he's seeing what Aizen wants him to see. This "all futures" thing Aizen can just simply remove any of it that implies to Yhwach he is under KS. So he's technically not seeing everything. I see no evidence Yhwach knew he was under KS. So it's not some he can't negate KS, he can, if he knew he was under it. But y'all were implying even having someone who can negate powers was vulnerable to it but reality it's based on what he sees and Aizen can remove any indication the guy is under KS in all of them
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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If Yhwach passively negated the entire bleach verse he wouldn't have even been harmed or defeated.
I think incon or Aizen wins btw but only because soul crush shit not ks
I think incon or Aizen wins btw but only because soul crush shit not ks
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When Yhwach broke Aizen's zanpakto he thought that the effects of the KS would be disrupted, but Aizen continued to show himself as Ichigo, this does not limit Yhwach's vision it only proves that Aizen's KS is highly functional, and yes Aizen had already spread the KS on the battlefield beforehand
Yhwach states this after his resurrection and neutralises Aizen, and we all know the rest
Twisted_Little_Raven
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I just reread it he never said or thought this. I think you're just referring to the fact he said KS but that's also just the name of his sword in general. This wouldn't really matter if he saw no future he was under it
It's only highly functional because it was used before the Almighty activation. If he tried to afterward it would get negated
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Aizen FRA
Excellence616
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Aizen FRA. Aizen uses Kurohitsugi to crush Zeref. Soul Crush, AP difference, Reactive Evolution etc.
Zeref already lost once to Aizen and to Zaraki.
What's stopping Aizen from willing the Hōgyoku to give him all of Zeref's abilities?
Zeref already lost once to Aizen and to Zaraki.
One Universe while Bleach has 4 space times.
What's stopping Aizen from willing the Hōgyoku to give him all of Zeref's abilities?
Death Manipulation/Resistance are on different levels. Saying that resistance to Death Manipulation didn't stop Mavis from being killed is NLF. It's like saying he can kill those who might have resistance to Mistress Death Death Manipulation.
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I don't think it happened exactly like that, yhwach couldn't have seen ks in the future, the reason was that he was affected by this power in the future. Therefore, in order to see that he is affected by ks in the future, he must not be affected by ks in the future. He also can't see that Yhwach will be hit by the silver arrow shot by Ishida, which may be due to Jugram. However, I think that this is because he was shot with a silver arrow in the future, so he does not have almighty powers, and because he does not have any powers in the future, he cannot see the future.
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No, as you can see in the scans, Yhwach directly states that KS is corrupted, then he says that he has seen everything and that KS's power is no match for his power.
Yhwach also says that his perception was distorted after his conversation with Aizen in the anime and that it was about Aizen. So what I said is still valid, Aizen's power is no longer dependent on his Zanpakto
AAlso, Aizen openly says that he spread KS before everyone arrived on the battlefield. He also states that Aizen KS also affects the vision of Almighty, who sees the future. And yes, this was not before Almighty activation. Yhwach also talked to Renji and Rukia about their fates before passing through the portal, and before that, And in his first battle with Ichigo, Almighty was always on
And just a little reminder, Aizen stated that KS doesn't only work on Ichigo
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Even if some of what you said is true, this does not mean that Zeref will not be affected by Kyoka Suigetsu and will reset the universe.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,996
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You beat me to it. Good work
No, as you can see in the scans, Yhwach directly states that KS is corrupted, then he says that he has seen everything and that KS's power is no match for his power.
Yhwach also says that his perception was distorted after his conversation with Aizen in the anime and that it was about Aizen. So what I said is still valid, Aizen's power is no longer dependent on his Zanpakto
AAlso, Aizen openly says that he spread KS before everyone arrived on the battlefield. He also states that Aizen KS also affects the vision of Almighty, who sees the future. And yes, this was not before Almighty activation. Yhwach also talked to Renji and Rukia about their fates before passing through the portal, and before that, And in his first battle with Ichigo, Almighty was always on
And just a little reminder, Aizen stated that KS doesn't only work on Ichigo
. You saved my time. I was about to look for the scans 
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Since Almighty is active, he shows Yhwach everything from now to the distant future, including the future in which he dies,He already sees this future that I mentioned in his dreams, and he must have seen it before the moment he died, that is, he sees KS as well. Yhwach only thinks that this future he sees is a dream, that's all
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You beat me to it. Good work
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We have seen many times in the manga that even the endless futures that Yhwach sees passively from the moment he comes under the influence of KS are manipulated by Aizen's KS.
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No, there is the place where Yhwach mentions that he sees it as a dream, Ishida sends Ichigo and Orihime to kill Yhwach while he is sleeping after distracting Jugram, Jugram conveys this instruction to Yhwach and Yhwach wakes up, thinks it is a dream, then realizes that it is a reflection of a reality shown by Jugram. . In addition, he cannot use his ability to see the future because he is affected by the ks in the future. Therefore, in order to see the future in the past, he must not be affected by the ks in the future.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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It probably would work I'm saying KS was being a bit wanked is all
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There is no wank here buddy, can you tell me where is wank? What I'm saying is that ks negs almighty's passive vision and the futures he sees are infinite.
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No ? Where do you come up with such a thing? Almighty's powers and what you are describing are completely contradictory. Yhwach clearly understood everything before he died.He says there was always a future he saw with his own eyes, but notes that Jugram made it seem like a dream to him.So yes, Yhwach thought the future where he died was a dream all along
And being affected by KS in the future shouldn't affect Almighty's power, simply because Almighty's job is to "change the future." If he saw that the future he saw was actually true, he would already take precautions.For example, in his battle with Ichigo, Yhwach simply saw that Ichigo's new power would be a threat to him in the future and shattered Ichigo's sword many times, leaving him to do the same thing to KS
Twisted_Little_Raven
She/Her- 3,566
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I actually don't think this changes anything since it's still based on what Yhwach sees and hes altering what he sees and I stated he doesn't passively depower the verse. This is still just an Almighty counter. The only way this has any relevance is if Yhwach passively rendered all abilities in bleach null and void the moment his Almighty activated which we see isn't the case
No, as you can see in the scans, Yhwach directly states that KS is corrupted, then he says that he has seen everything and that KS's power is no match for his power.
Yhwach also says that his perception was distorted after his conversation with Aizen in the anime and that it was about Aizen. So what I said is still valid, Aizen's power is no longer dependent on his Zanpakto
AAlso, Aizen openly says that he spread KS before everyone arrived on the battlefield. He also states that Aizen KS also affects the vision of Almighty, who sees the future. And yes, this was not before Almighty activation. Yhwach also talked to Renji and Rukia about their fates before passing through the portal, and before that, And in his first battle with Ichigo, Almighty was always on
And just a little reminder, Aizen stated that KS doesn't only work on Ichigo
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No ? Where do you come up with such a thing? Almighty's powers and what you are describing are completely contradictory. Yhwach clearly understood everything before he died.He says there was always a future he saw with his own eyes, but notes that Jugram made it seem like a dream to him.So yes, Yhwach thought the future where he died was a dream all along
And being affected by KS in the future shouldn't affect Almighty's power, simply because Almighty's job is to "change the future." If he saw that the future he saw was actually true, he would already take precautions.For example, in his battle with Ichigo, Yhwach simply saw that Ichigo's new power would be a threat to him in the future and shattered Ichigo's sword many times, leaving him to do the same thing to KS
no no no, when yhwach, ichigo and orihime arrive, he sees himself killed by ichigo, but let's guess, who has almighty at the time? The answer is of course jugram. Since Yhwach doesn't have Almighty while he sleeps, he can't see himself being killed by Ichigo in the future, so how did he see himself being killed by Ichigo then? The answer is obviously jugram again. Jugram shows Yhwach a reflection of the future and Yhwach wakes up.
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Yes, what you just said doesn't really make any sense. The moment Yhwach activated Almighty in the fight with Ichibei, it nullified his powers.What does this have to do with nullifying the powers of the entire universe?
In his battles with Ichigo and Ichibei, he neutralized both of their powers. Please say something meaningful now.
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That's what I mean, bud. Since he doesn't see himself being affected by ks in the future, he doesn't do anything to change this future.No ? Where do you come up with such a thing? Almighty's powers and what you are describing are completely contradictory. Yhwach clearly understood everything before he died.He says there was always a future he saw with his own eyes, but notes that Jugram made it seem like a dream to him.So yes, Yhwach thought the future where he died was a dream all along
And being affected by KS in the future shouldn't affect Almighty's power, simply because Almighty's job is to "change the future." If he saw that the future he saw was actually true, he would already take precautions.For example, in his battle with Ichigo, Yhwach simply saw that Ichigo's new power would be a threat to him in the future and shattered Ichigo's sword many times, leaving him to do the same thing to KS
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I hope you don't see what I said as a counter argument for Aizen. No matter what I say, Zeref is affected by Aizen's KS.No ? Where do you come up with such a thing? Almighty's powers and what you are describing are completely contradictory. Yhwach clearly understood everything before he died.He says there was always a future he saw with his own eyes, but notes that Jugram made it seem like a dream to him.So yes, Yhwach thought the future where he died was a dream all along
And being affected by KS in the future shouldn't affect Almighty's power, simply because Almighty's job is to "change the future." If he saw that the future he saw was actually true, he would already take precautions.For example, in his battle with Ichigo, Yhwach simply saw that Ichigo's new power would be a threat to him in the future and shattered Ichigo's sword many times, leaving him to do the same thing to KS
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I'm really angry rn, are you kidding me or are you serious, can you read what I wrote before?
When Yhwach saw the future from now to the distant time, he saw that he was under the influence of KS and should have changed it. What you say now does not prove anything
Twisted_Little_Raven
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The point is, if he sees all futures, he would passively nullify the entire bleach verse. He didn't. He said everything he sees becomes powerless, and he sees all futures. Meaning every ability in bleach should be passively nullified the moment he uses the Almighty. This is nlf, he didn't negate Aizen and KS overpowered more like it's not an instant passive negation. Since Aizen affects what he sees and it worked it more than likely means it's not a passive thing and it's more active
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Dude, are you seriously not reading the evidence I posted
While Yhwach is about to die, he explains this himself (specifically stating that he saw it with his own eyes). Whether Jugram is involved or not doesn't even affect this? This is the real future he sees and And Yhwach thought it was just a dream, simple as that
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This is not an anti argument against passive power null, what nonsense are you talking about right now, the powers that Yhwach faces in every fight are always ineffective against him (orihime, Ichigo,ichibei,renji Etc)
We are talking about vsb right now, if you are against this, then don't stop, open a CRT that will debunk it
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In order to see that he is under the influence of ks, he must not be affected by ks in the future. Also, he never sees himself being affected by KS in the future . Just like Ishida's Silver Arrow example; Because of Ishida's arrow, he couldn't see the arrow blocking all his powers in the future because all his powers were already gone.The manga also never explains that he sees himself being affected by KS in the future. The only thing he says before he dies is that he thinks it's a dream Jugram showed him where Ichigo killed him.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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Orhime was literally blocking his attacks with her powersThis is not an anti argument against passive power null, what nonsense are you talking about right now, the powers that Yhwach faces in every fight are always ineffective against him (orihime, Ichigo,ichibei,renji Etc)
We are talking about vsb right now, if you are against this, then don't stop, open a CRT that will debunk it
Of course you can
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Don't you understand what I'm saying, when Yhwach is sleeping, he doesn't have almighty. So someone else woke him up by showing him the reflection of the future and the person who did this is Jugram. Go and read it again.Dude, are you seriously not reading the evidence I posted
While Yhwach is about to die, he explains this himself (specifically stating that he saw it with his own eyes). Whether Jugram is involved or not doesn't even affect this? This is the real future he sees and And Yhwach thought it was just a dream, simple as that
Hellscream
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Why are people voting incon, incap is a thing which is what soul crush does.
Zeref on the other hand has 0 ways of putting him down, anything he has gets resisted.
Zeref on the other hand has 0 ways of putting him down, anything he has gets resisted.
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Right now you're only telling me about the manga's past episode, the part I'm talking about is much later than yours, directly the part where Yhwach died. And yeah, I don't know how many times I have to tell you, but Yhwach clearly states that he saw it with his own eyes, I'm not the one who needs to re-read things here, man
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,807
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I read through the entire thread, name the wincons fam
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No, a passive power can also be negated by a passive power. yhwach sees every infinite future passively and ks prevails over it.
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Hahaha this is getting really funny I'm talking about Orihime's powers. When Yhwach broke Zangetsu, Orihime couldn't fix it back.
Twisted_Little_Raven
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So it's not consistent? Doesn't sound instant nullify all to me if Orihime is blocking attacks from a god tier
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,807
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When did she block Yhwach's attacks?
When the Almighty was activated atleast
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,807
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