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Yhwach vs Goetia

Schnee One said:
Making it so that Goetias time travel is useless or Yhwach can't attack from the past is a textbook restrictio
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No.

A restriction means someone isn't allowed to use one of their abilites. That would be like me taking away Goetia's ability to time travel because it would be "unfair".

This scenario just means that when they use their ability they find it useless.Yhwach can't attack from the past because he lacks the ability to do so, and Goetia doesn't exist in this world's past. And Goetia can't kill him from the past, because just like Goetia himself, Yhwach doesn't exist in this world's past either.

That's like saying any character's mindhax not working on a person who resists is a restriction of the power because the ability is rendered pointless.

It isn't, and neither is this.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Paul Frank said:
Yhwach attacks from the present but sees the future actually
Well if you think about it technically any character attacks from the past
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"So I broke it in the future"
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the whole thing was supposed to be crossed out since I wasn't being serious

that's not an attack though
 
@waren

It's already been explained that time travel works and allows you to kill the past version of a character even in a neutral verse

If you don't wanna accept that I could just make this earth in the bleach verse
 
Paul Frank said:
@waren
It's already been explained that time travel works and allows you to kill the past version of a character even in a neutral verse

If you don't wanna accept that I could just make this earth in the bleach verse
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That's why I am arguing other's logic on this matter with my own - that's the whole point of debate.

And you can do that, because then I would agree with the viability of your argument.
 
You should probably do that on a crt then or something since that's a site wide thing not just here
 
Paul Frank said:
You should probably do that on a crt then or something since that's a site wide thing not just here
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I hate making CRTs, and tbh, I don't really like serious debating like this either.

I get too invested into it and it takes up all my time, and drains me physically and mentally.

The reason I like being here is for community discussions about franchises I like and memes.


I'd really appreicate if you can just move this fight to the Bleach-verse, so I can stop talking about this.
 
See I would move it yeah but uhhh

the Time Temple and Solomon cease to exist if I do that
 
Paul Frank said:
See I would move it yeah but uhhh
the Time Temple and Solomon cease to exist if I do that
Click to expand...
Why would they exist in the real world then?

Anyway, we all agreed that a change in location shouldn't restrict powers or tools - as what is the point of the fight, right? So it shouldn't matter.

I was arguing that an ability being rendered useless due to location doesn't make it a restriction.
 
They don't exist in the real world

They exist in sbaverse

A neutral verse doesn't restrict powers or tools, the bleach verse is not a neutral verse

That is exactly what a restriction is though?
 
No he would just see Goetia in moment one

Then nothing in moment two as he ceases to exist

There is nothing to precog with the time travel Goetia just goes back in time, if Yhwach can't see something he can't null it
 
Paul Frank said:
They don't exist in the real world
They exist in sbaverse

A neutral verse doesn't restrict powers or tools, the bleach verse is not a neutral verse

That is exactly what a restriction is though?
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SBA makes a fight take place in the real world, and VS Battle fights in general don't restrict powers or tools, not just the neutral setting - so changing the location of the fight won't matter in the slightest.

And no, it isn't.

A restriction is the "limitation or control of someone or something". For example, not allowing a character to use one of their abilites. Goetia's time travel in this scenario.

That is not the case here, Goetia can still use his ability, it is just rendered pointless because of the location of the fight.


Again, that's like saying any character's mindhax not working on a person who resists mindhax is a restriction of the power because the ability is rendered pointless.

That's nonsense. The power is still able to work, it is just rendered moot because of resistance. That's the same case here as Goetia can still use his ability, it's just the location of the fight renders the effectiveness of the ability moot.


There's a difference.
 
Paul Frank said:
No he would just see Goetia in moment one
Then nothing in moment two as he ceases to exist

There is nothing to precog with the time travel Goetia just goes back in time, if Yhwach can't see something he can't null it
Click to expand...
No, he would see the beams of light destroying Earth in all moments from the present to the future.

That's how the power is described:

"Ars Almadel Salomonis: The Time of Birth has Come, He is the One who Masters All: Solomon's third Noble Phantasm, and the Noble Phantasm most used by Goetia. It is the "|" of Original Sin, appearing at first as a massive ring of light the size of North America that encircles the planet. It fires hundreds of millions of lines of light, with each light possessing power equal to Excalibur, and travels through time to destroy the surface of the planet in the past, present, and future all at once, eradicating humanity at all points in time. Nothing on Earth surpasses the heat produced by this attack and no earthly material can withstand it for as long as it abides by the laws of physics. It can also be focused into a single point and fired as an Anti-Unit Noble Phantasm with enough power to pierce through the entire planet with a hole via the heat it produces alone.

However, its true application is in the energy it gathers by incinerating humanity, which it mostly uses to fuel itself. By destroying humanity across 3,000 years, Goetia can gather an amount of energy that surpasses the creation of Earth itself and can use it to reverse time on a planetary scale to recreate the planet as he pleases with entirely new concepts. Such a feat is close to True Magic."
 
But since he is stopped from even existing due to AAS being fired in the past he can't see anything that was my point
 
@warren That's incorrect

Sbaverse is a neutral verse Real Life is a different verse

A character having one of their key abilities rendered useless by the location makes it not a neutral verse.

No this case is more like saying that genjutsu only works on Naruto characters since no one else has chakra
 
Paul Frank said:
But since he is stopped from even existing due to AAS being fired in the past he can't see anything that was my point
Click to expand...
It's fired at all points in time simultaneously.

So he should still see it.
 
@sigurd

It fires off at least high 6-A blasts or 5-B once he gathers energy which he can do freely in the past
 
Well that doesn't matter since he will be gathering energy for the 5-B application in the past
 
No it isn't - that's not what SBA states.

It's still neutral because Goetia receives the same advatange - if Yhwach could attack from the past, he also wouldn't be able to effect Goetia because of the location. It's neutral because neither party are familiar with the location.


And no, that's a false equivalency.

Location doesn't change the fact that the opponent fighting the Naruto character isn't from Naruto, and wouldn't have Chakra like they do in Naruto.

That's why we have verse equalization, so such an argument doesn't exist. Powers and tools are allowed to work because of verse equalization.

Again, location has nothing to do with it.
 
@sigurd

If he dies he ends up in the time temple then goes back in time and gathers energy for AAS
 
You know what it means if you say that there is no past version of Yhwach? Goetia instantly perceives he is not in his world but that all of humanity is still suffering all the same, and that this world has a concept of death. He instantly steps a minute into the past before they got dropped into this world, and he does a quick set up of the incineration of humanity with some demon gods since there is no real opposition here, then ******* nukes Yhwach and still time paradoxes him by making it so the world he got dropped into never existed, and him with it. Hell, since there is no Chaldea it's a ******* cake walk that Yhwach cannot even oppose except for the tiny chance that Goetia decides to sit around in some good ol' CIS.

There, I have met you even on your own false assumptions of how SBA works, and still vote for Goetia winning via time paradox.
 
Goetia isn't making any sort of movement at all, he just get crushed for all eternity in this key via his glass-cannon status. I vote Yhwach just standing there and absorbing him for some new powers.
 
He doesn't have to move. Dying once puts him in the imaginary numbers space and from there he time travels

Yhwach can neither see nor reach the imaginary numbers space
 
Did you miss the absorption part? he gets absorbed in every way possible instantly. He won't be doing anything when he's power nulled via Almighty's reactive evolution.
 
It's not instant absorption though that's the problem so he gets revived into the time temple before he is absorbed

Yhwach can't powernull while Goetia is in the imaginary numbers space
 
Paul Frank said:
It's not instant absorption though that's the problem so he gets revived into the time temple before he is absorbed
Yhwach can't powernull while Goetia is in the imaginary numbers space
Click to expand...
He's powernulled whils't in battle, which goes over to Yhwach's reactive evolution. There won't be anything to revive since he's completely absorbed in every way including spirtually. And it is instant because he has no resistance and is weaker in this key.

Yhwach can absorb him completely by physically touching him or just absorb his powers with sankt altar. Again Yhwach can do whatever he want's because Solomon won't be moving a muscle.
 
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