• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Yhwach vs Goetia

AnonymousBlank said:
Pretty sure Warren already brought up the fact that its a neutral verse but there is also no oppurtunity as putting it on the SK won't do anything and Yhwach or basically anyone around him will slap any agent who attempts to.
Click to expand...
It being a neutral verse doesn't protect from getting time paradoxed. Why would it being put on the soul King not do anything? He just does a perfect time and place where the guards will not be
 
@sigurd

Even if Yhwach absorbs Solomon's corpse in order to kill Goetia he would have to use Ars Nova and delete himself
 
Paul Frank said:
@sigurd
Even if Yhwach absorbs Solomon's corpse in order to kill Goetia he would have to use Ars Nova and delete himself
Click to expand...
The absorption takes little time at all, and he'll have Solomon's abilities, skills, and knowledge. Not sure how the Goetia ressurection works, but Yhwach absorbs souls as well ever since he was a baby.
 
@Sigurd

I say almost omniscience just to give you a scale of his clairvoyance. He views every moment of every time and every point in every place.

Goetia instantly, or could argue faster than instantly since they are gonna get sent from outside of time and space, projecting a demon God pillar into the past to so the mission. Him not having resistance doesn't really matter since the vast majority of the time he dies before he gets the chance, assuming he doesn't look at Goetia and get BFR'd passively to begin with.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
AnonymousBlank said:
Pretty sure Warren already brought up the fact that its a neutral verse but there is also no oppurtunity as putting it on the SK won't do anything and Yhwach or basically anyone around him will slap any agent who attempts to.
Click to expand...
It being a neutral verse doesn't protect from getting time paradoxed. Why would it being put on the soul King not do anything? He just does a perfect time and place where the guards will not be
Click to expand...
It does when the characters don't exist in the past for them to be killed in and therefore paradoxed.

Taking two characters from their repsective franchsies and teleporting them into the real world to fight to the death means that they don't exist in that world before they were teleported into it. You can't go to the past in that world and find Yhwach because Yhwach only appears in that world when this fights begins, which is the present.

Viewing other people with Acausality is another thing though, that should bypass Yhwach's resistance.
 
Iap, you do know you could much more easily say that he goes and squashes Yhwach when he was young, right? He did come to the world almost literally disabled and only gained normal faculties and power after his natural ability to lend bits of his soul let him get the bit he loaned back with some extra power. Much, much easier to squash the disabled baby than his super powered dad.
 
@warren

Because once he is out of the body he will just be 5-A Goetia

Goetia is also unkillable until Solomon uses Ars Nova and the Time Temple collapses even while in Solomon's body

Also yes time travelers are allowed to go back in time and kill past versions of a character especially if that character was born on earth. It being a neutral verse doesn't matter since otherwise time travel is not useful in versus matches
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
@Sigurd
I say almost omniscience just to give you a scale of his clairvoyance. He views every moment of every time and every point in every place.

Goetia instantly, or could argue faster than instantly since they are gonna get sent from outside of time and space, projecting a demon God pillar into the past to so the mission. Him not having resistance doesn't really matter since the vast majority of the time he dies before he gets the chance, assuming he doesn't look at Goetia and get BFR'd passively to begin with.
Click to expand...
Isn't the BFR done by Soul Ripping?

Yhwach resists that.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Iap, you do know you could much more easily say that he goes and squashes Yhwach when he was young, right? He did come to the world almost literally disabled and only gained normal faculties and power after his natural ability to lend bits of his soul let him get the bit he loaned back with some extra power. Much, much easier to squash the disabled baby than his super powered dad.
Click to expand...
Good point. He just drops one of his Pillars and they merk him
 
Thats what you need to prove because there are no Crests that have to be passed down in Bleach to be better at your powers. SK having it (he never would but lets say he does) wpuld do nothing as Yhwach would never get it until arguably his later key from absorbing the SK, but that version isn't being used and also means that the "Crest" is now Yhwach's and no longer Goetia's.
 
What? If Yhwach absorbs Goetia then he absorbs him both physically and spiritually - obtaining all of Goetia's powers. So Yhwach will gain Goetia's unkillability.

Also Time Travel isn't useful in versus matches.
 
@sigurd He is the aggregate body of the 72 demon gods that infest Solomon's corpse

He's different than a spirit because iirc Nasuverse kinda seperates demons and spirits

Immortality (Types 1, 3, and 8 [Cannot die so long as Solomo and his temple still exist])
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Iap, you do know you could much more easily say that he goes and squashes Yhwach when he was young, right? He did come to the world almost literally disabled and only gained normal faculties and power after his natural ability to lend bits of his soul let him get the bit he loaned back with some extra power. Much, much easier to squash the disabled baby than his super powered dad.
Click to expand...
Good point. He just drops one of his Pillars and they merk him
Click to expand...
You have 0 evidence that he'd know where baby Yhwach is, no one in the verse knowns where he was born and how he was concieved. Ichibe who can see literally everything going on in the verse and who is millions of years older then Yhwach doesn't know where and how he was born.
 
@Warren

That's not how it works. We don't just assume that time paradox suddenly doesn't work. Next you are gonna tell me that Goetia isn't gonna have access to his workshop because them being in a neutral location invalidates it


Yhwach may resist some soul hax but so do servants. Look at my description above of the lengths that was went through to even somewhat get around the curse and what couldn't be done even with Holmes' ability to literally passively make the impossible possible
 
@waren

No the person Yhwach is fighting is Solomon's corpse, he would absorb the corpse and not Goetia

Time travel is useful in versus debates specifically because we allow time travelers to time paradox people even in the neurtal verse
 
@sigurd

He wouldn't need to know where Yhwach is as a baby if he wipes the planet before Yhwach was born
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
@Warren
That's not how it works. We don't just assume that time paradox suddenly doesn't work. Next you are gonna tell me that Goetia isn't gonna have access to his workshop because them being in a neutral location invalidates it


Yhwach may resist some soul hax but so do servants. Look at my description above of the lengths that was went through to even somewhat get around the curse and what couldn't be done even with Holmes' ability to literally passively make the impossible possible
Click to expand...
That's how logic works.

Yhwach wouldn't be immune to a time paradox, but the location that both contestants in this fight are in negate the vailidty of going back to the past to kill someone, because they don't exist in this world's past because they don't live there.

When did you describe the ability beyond it just sending the bodies and souls that look at it to purgatory?
 
He has a physical body, and not like a Shinigami made of spirit particles. He's actual flesh and blood, and lived on Earth for most of the time he was alive as far as it's seen. There's no reason not to assume he wasn't on Earth when he was young, even if he's the SKs son.
 
Paul Frank said:
@waren
No the person Yhwach is fighting is Solomon's corpse, he would absorb the corpse and not Goetia

Time travel is useful in versus debates specifically because we allow time travelers to time paradox people even in the neurtal verse
Click to expand...
He's fighting the corpse with 72 demons stuffed inside him, no? If Yhwach's absorbs Solomon's corpse, then he'll absorb the demons too.


And no, 99% of people with Time Travel don't use the ability to kill of their opponent. And again, logic would dictate that option as non-viable in this setting, as I have explained ad nauseum.
 
@sigurd

The fact that it is literally stated in the series, the whole series takes place on earth, we see his birth and him grow up, the quincies are also literally humans

@warren

The neutral verse that sba creates is specifically made so that both characters can get the most out of their powers, that's why time travel works.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
He has a physical body, and not like a Shinigami made of spirit particles. He's actual flesh and blood, and lived on Earth for most of the time he was alive as far as it's seen. There's no reason not to assume he wasn't on Earth when he was young, even if he's the SKs son.
Click to expand...
Quincy and Humans are different, if he was born on Earth why doesn't anyone know? I have no reason to assume he was born on Earth when the canon is that no one knows, it's not ambiguous people literally don't know as if he just came to be like his dad who just mysteriously appeared via the will of the world.
 
Paul Frank said:
@warren

The neutral verse that sba creates is specifically made so that both characters can get the most out of their powers, that's why time travel works.
Click to expand...
SBA makes it so that neither character has an unfair advantage over the other, putting the oppoennts in the real world.
 
It's not affecting their powers, it's affecting their positioning in the world around them.

SBA states that the fight takes place in Central Park, New York - the real world.

Neither Yhwach nor Goetia exists in that world prior to that fight, so going into the past to kill the other is meaningless because the other character doesn't in that world's past.

Not that being in the real world negates Goetia's ability to go into the past, but that going into the past won't reap the rewards that Goetia desires (killing Yhwach) because he doesn't exist in that past.
 
@sigurd

Maybe no one knows because he was born over 1200 years ago and not because he was born in a different planet
 
@waren

Literally everyone including Kal told you that is not how neutral universe works so why don't we drop this
 
I know.

The Warp doesn't exist irl but I can grant you that this doesn't make the Emperor of Mankind a complete joke for any 4-B under SBA.

Neutral means that it doesn't favor anyone.

If it restricts someone it isn't neutral
 
Paul Frank said:
@sigurd
Maybe no one knows because he was born over 1200 years ago and not because he was born in a different planet
Click to expand...
You're not reading my post.

Ichibe who is millions of years old and can see everything going in every dimension is the one who told us no one knows where he was born or how he was born. Also you're forgetting Earth isn't the only place in Bleach.
 
@sigurd

He doesn't know specifically where Yhwach was born, that doesn't mean he wasn't born on earth especially considering he gave his power out to humans and took it back in order to stop being crippled.
 
Kaltias said:
I know.
The Warp doesn't exist irl but I can grant you that this doesn't make the Emperor of Mankind a complete joke for any 4-B under SBA.

Neutral means that it doesn't favor anyone.

If it restricts someone it isn't neutral
Click to expand...
Restricting the Warp is one thing as it is restricting a power source for a character.

This is different, as Goetia still has his powers, it's just that Yhwach doesn't exist in this world's past because he only arrived in this world at the start of this fight.

Those are two different things. One is a restriction, the other isn't.

A Neutral world means that neither party is associated with the landscape. Goetia has the same advantage in this landscape as Yhwach, it's just meangless beacuse Yhwach can't attack from the past.
 
Making it so that Goetias time travel is useless or Yhwach can't attack from the past is a textbook restriction
 
Yhwach attacks from the present but sees the future actually

Well if you think about it technically any character attacks from the past
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Bleachverse vs Yhwach
Replies
3
Views
1K
LordGinSama
LordGinSama
Guacamolefletcher
  • Locked
Kenpachi's upgrade
2 3
Replies
88
Views
5K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
OuterLine0
  • Locked
Nasuverse Tier 0 Update
Replies
11
Views
3K
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
Violatas
  • Locked
Nasuverse: Word of God Scaling Removal
2
Replies
71
Views
6K
Firestorm808
Firestorm808
Zencha9
  • Locked
Madoka vs Goetia
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
Schnee_One
Schnee_One
Back
Top