You should get back on track y'all. 4-D resistances and hax
(which excludes physical phenomenon by the way) are a wild tangent. If you want to learn about the justification search for "Magecraft" in the
Servant Physiology page. But it is not constructive to abandon the main topic of the thread for a separate debate; if somethings are irrelevant or currently accepted there is no need to turn the thread into a bunch of mini-CRTs about them.
I got permission to make this comment by
@Qawsedf234.
To me, the idea that it's merely a coincidence that there are six doors, named for each direction of three dimensional space, is a fairly ridiculous notion.
It is due to symbology, not coincidence. As Executor explained it wouldn't cause incredulity for those with cultural context, and even without the cultural context it was found to make sense when the
explanation to the objection was accepted, so this preposterousness is not self-evident at all nor come of as justified.
I assume you find no fault in the first scan with BB about the multiplicity of spatial dimensions.
Did you link the wrong scan? Nothing is stated about creating dimensions.
Besides the point; even if I was hypothetically wrong about the creator, the higher dimensional spatio-temporal properties are still mentioned.
But if you want clarification, I was being concise, so I linked the scan describing the spatial and temporal properties of SE.RA.PH and the Cage of the Fallen, which are acknowledged to be created by
Kiara:
(As a result of Zepar linking Kiara with her CCC self, the two of them became one in the same, with her powers becoming even stronger than they originally were. Created the Cage of the Fallen,
a nonexistent space within SE.RA.PH where time and space are measured in more dimensions than they are in the normal world)
It never says they are spatial? In fact the wording suggests otherwise. If he is dropped back into his original dimension, singular, that would suggest it is referring to a realm. We occupy several spatial dimensions simultaneously.
Ninja'd by Executor making an insightful breakdown of the term in Japanese, which is a much better response.
Otherwise, my response would be that it is currently accepted in
Medea's profile as
Dimensional Manipulation.
His original dimension he was dropped back to is the third dimension, which is an apparent reference to three-dimensional space; if we are not being pedantic about battleboard phrasing this refers to a three-dimensional world. What alternative interpretation would you be willing to seriously argue the strength of in a CRT?
The "the third dimension" = "the three-dimensional world" has been stated in CCC by the way (
from the BB higher dimensional perspective scan):
| From this higher dimension, the third dimension looks like a flat scroll. Er, if the three-dimensional world is a world drawn in a book, and then if you jumped inside the book and came out outside the book, something like that? |
So Shirou went on a trip to 'many' dimensions that are variable in the amount of spatial dimensions.
I got permission from Deagonx.
Yes, that's the point. Roa showed that the struggle on earth is the same in another realm. Characters on the same dimensionality as Kiara dwarfed her in strength, nothing implies that somehow there exists an infinite number of realms that dwarfed her. Implying that he meant "Yeah actually there exists an infinite number of dimensions" is a massive stretch. You render Roa's monologue as nothing more than "infinite dimensions exist" when it wasn't even the point he was trying to make.
Moreover, Roa uses the word
transcendent to deal with everything regarding superhuman nature.
He does so to define vampires by their abilities to not age and resurrect after death. If someone needs the actual scene,
here it is. Even if we could assume that he's just stating what everyone thinks and not his own opinion during that scene, he doesn't deny the word itself. The point is more that "transcendent" can mean something entirely different and more down to earth than higher-dimensionality. So yeah, "no matter how transcendent" means "no matter how superhuman you are", which goes in tandem with the fact that the characters dwarfing Kiara aren't even higher-dimensional compared to her.
Actually, per Roa the struggle is more intense in higher dimensions, hence Kiara noped out.
Feel free to derive moral lessons, but this does not detract from the cosmological implications in the statement.
We can acknowledge moral lessons and wisdoms, but this is not the purpose of the thread hence there was no focus on them. The cosmology doesn't have to be the main point he makes; it just has to be
a point he mentioned.
So no, the point of the thread is not to argue what Roa's main point is.
The point of the thread is to discuss the cosmological implications and lore Roa revealed while discussing his main point (whatever it is). And looking at the cosmological implication/lore, there was overwhelming agreement and acceptance in the thread it was brought up, including by one of the site's top Tier 1 experts, on High 1-B; so it doesn't seem to be a 'massive stretch' at all, and should be discussed more seriously.
Regarding the second paragraph, actually,
the top-tier vampires are considered more powerful than most gods. So calling the species transcendental wouldn't be wrong. Fun fact: ORT inherits the title of Dead Apostle Ancestor, and so did Primate Murder who is one of the Beasts.
I can agree that transcendence can mean different things. However we know from the example provided by Roa that it
ALSO means becoming higher dimensional.
So even if it also means other things, the qualifiers would also apply to the state of becoming higher dimensional (in fact, this is what the example highlights).
So let's go through the logic:
- 'No end to the path toward omnipotence'
| 1. What is a confirmed example for a method to going through the path toward omnipotence? | Ascending to higher dimensions. |
| 2. Is there an end to the path toward omnipotence? | No. Even if you become omnipotent to a lower dimension. |
| Conclusion: | You can endlessly become higher dimensional and still not reach true omnipotence. |
- 'No matter how transcendental you become, there will always be something that lies ahead'
| 1. What is a confirmed example of becoming transcendental? | Becoming higher dimensional. |
| 2. Can you reach an endpoint by becoming transcendental? | No. No matter how transcendental you become. |
| Conclusion: | You can endlessly transcend to a higher dimension and still be able to transcend further. |
Also, do you have a citation to your claim that there was absolute no demon who was higher dimensional compared to Kiara?
