UQ Holder getting a page or negima page being updated

[Reppuzan]

@Damage

Seems fine to me then.

 

[Skylietz]

BFR...

Jinbei, Nagumo (instantly teleporting Karin from Earth to the moon),and Fate (Karin's also the victim lol) also have this ability, but not as powerful as Dana's of course

 

[Damage3245]

Karin consistently gets the BFR treatment as it's pretty much the only way to safely deal with her. Jinbei's BFR range is quite limited but with some prep work he can teleport people into a sealed box.

 

[Antvasima]

So, does the current discussion have any particular goal in mind?

 

[Skylietz]

gathering informations for the possible future creation of UQ Holder characters I suppose,

planning to create Karin's profile but I have confusion regarding her Durability, should it Unknown or at least Island, likely far higher?? (scaling with top AP with implication of much higher durability),

and it was stated to be indestructible by any means, so how far that durability given by God Himself does? personally I think it's a least Universe level, (there are parallel universes and multiple timelines introduced in UQ holder btw) how bout you guys think?

 

[Reppuzan]

We'd have to go by our best showings really.

 

[Skylietz]

We'd have to go by our best showings really.

Durability: Unknow. At least City level (tanked Rakan's attacks), likely far higher (her body was stated to be indestructible by any means)

^ is that ok

 

[Reppuzan]

I'd rather write this:

Durability: Unknow, At least City level (Survived blows from Jack Raka), likely far higher (Her immortality is a curse that prevents her from being harmed through conventional means)

 

[RegisNex1232]

Shouldn't all of this be moved to the General Discussion/Content Revision forums?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Regis

You're right, I've done so.

 

[Antvasima]

Content Revision seems more appropriate.

 

[Damage3245]

Karin is a bit of a special case as she can be hit since she feels the pain from attacks she takes but due to a permanently active causality manipulation, the damage she takes is written out if existence. It's more like a form of incredible regen than invulnerability in that sense.

 

[Skylietz]

Karin is a bit of a special case as she can be hit since she feels the pain from attacks she takes but due to a permanently active causality manipulation, the damage she takes is written out if existence. It's more like a form of incredible regen than invulnerability in that sense.

yea, I know that the aspect of "hyper-speed regen" of her, but she won't spill any blood, no blades are able to pierce her too deeply, more like stopped into the layer of skin where the pain receptor are there, and Rakan's super powerful punch won't obliterate her body even for less than a sec, so it's more likely that the outside force can only reached her pain receptor thus she will feel the pain, but won't damage her any further than a mere scratches that will be rewritten back into the her undamaged state

and if her durability is not that great, she can be stopped / sealed with a method like stabbing her with multiple blades like the other immortals (like many of Kuromaru or Touta's cases)

so, in that senses, she is still invulnerable, and thus the incredible regen feat can actually be ignored because it only just hypothesized by Chao and no further proof of it. These enemies of her are powerful, but they know that her body is invulnerable thus they resorted to these methods:

-Sayoko buried her 1000 m beneath the ground

-Nagumo sent her to the moon

-Fate sent her into somewhere

-Rakan buried her beneath a large building, the blows only sent her away, and the giant sword only used on Touta.

 

[Damage3245]

We've seen Chao's vibrating blade pierce her and she's been pierced through with multiple spears in chapter 14 or so. It's not an actual biological regen, it's just the event being rewritten through causality manipulation so that the attack never damaged her. The event is just being rewritten so quickly that she appears completely invulnerable; like when Nagumo did a series of slashes through her and it resulted in only her clothing being destroyed while she was unharmed.

 

[Skylietz]

We've seen Chao's vibrating blade pierce her and she's been pierced through with multiple spears in chapter 14 or so. It's not an actual biological regen, it's just the event being rewritten through causality manipulation so that the attack never damaged her. The event is just being rewritten so quickly that she appears completely invulnerable; like when Nagumo did a series of slashes through her and it resulted in only her clothing being destroyed while she was unharmed.

yeah, that multiple spears "appeared" to stabbed through her, and Fate or Rakan should be able to do the same with much stronger spears / swords, unless she had some kind of intangibility, those powerful enemies should do the same sealing tricks on her (stabbing with multiple sharp objects).

and about the Regenerationn, I suppose that should be on the level of High-Godly (Able to regenerate even if your existence is erased and the reality you are within is destroyed), I forgot the source of chapter but IIRC she cannot be erased from existance unlike other immortals (Touta and similar class of immortal can be killed with sufficient magical power or existance erasing attack) and her body's reality keep rewritten back to her normal state if damaged

So, we have 2 options of her durability:

1. At least City level with High-Godly Regenerationn ability or Temporal Healing (http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Temporal_Healing) <<-- I have a doubt on this because as I mentioned before, she should be vulnerable to stab sealing method and her body have to shown to be destroyed / damaged even for a less than 0.005 sec or less against stronger enemies such as Sayoko / Fate / Rakan, not just a mere temporary superficial scratches shown on the anime / manga when slashed / stabbed with vibrating knife. She have to be supported with some degree of intangibility if this feat is true, and as you can see on the Regenerationn pages, the characters examples are all shown to be vulnerable to damage and can be destroyed, even temporarily and returned later

2. At least City level, likely far higher (invulnerability)

 

[Damage3245]

The first option sounds more likely. We've seen that she can be stabbed but the reason why the stab sealing method doesn't work is that the damage from the stab sealing gets rewritten out of existence. So she no longer becomes stabbed. It's why only her clothing was stabbed through and damaged by that guys spears in Chapter 14. Whether it's through intangibility or simply warping the spears out of her body doesn't matter because the method is just an application of causality manipulation (Eva stated that Karin's immortality was due to being in a causal twist).

 

[Reppuzan]

@Skylietz

We can't assume High-Godly Regen until we have an actual feat. Use her best feat.

 

[Damage3245]

Going off of the Power Wiki, what Karin actually has is an Unfettered Body but translating that into useful terminology is difficult. She's for all intents and purposes a living outlier in her own series (and acknowledged as such) since she has the curse/blessing of never being physically harmed.

It's not unlike Griffith or the Godhand manipulating Causality to never be harmed.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

I sincerely doubt Karin is high-godly because no feats of being erased on that level at all let alone the soul so you can't claim that so easily

 

[Reppuzan]

@Damage

I have said this before, and I will say it again.

DO NOT USE THE POWERLISTING WIKI AS A SOURCE!

The vast majority of their pages are flagrantly unreliable and have everything from "Badass Manipulation" to different types of Omnipotence.

Just don't.

 

[Damage3245]

I wasn't using it as a source, I was responding toSkylietz who linked to that site when he mentioned Temporal Healing. I was simply stating it to give everyone here a better indication as to the nature of her powers; not trying to prove something. I only ever go by the official manga canon as source for anything related to Negima or UQ Holder. Don't overreact and asume things, please.

 

[Skylietz]

I'd rather write this:
Durability: Unknow, At least City level (Survived blows from Jack Raka), likely far higher (Her immortality is a curse that prevents her from being harmed through conventional means)

Thank you. Ok then, I will continue

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Sealing, can sense and see ghosts, Immortality (Types 4), Regenerationn (at least Mid-Low) via Causal Manipulation. Does not need oxygen to survive, Skilled Swordsma, Skilled hammer wielder, Skilled Martial Artist, Able to attack intangible spirits, Resistance towards fire, Light Manipulation

Attack Potency: At least City level (Sliced off Rakan's arm)

Speed: Hypersonic+ (Capable of fighting Rakan in close quarters), Speed of Light attack speed with Holy Fist (Rakan mentioned that he cannot dodge an attack that reaching speed of light, such as hers)

Lifting Strength: Class K (Should not be weaker than Touta, who can lift 500 tons Gravity Blade)

Striking Strength: At least City Class

Durability: Unknow, At least City level (Survived blows from Jack Raka), likely far higher (Her immortality is a curse that prevents her from being harmed through conventional means)

Stamina: High.

Range: At least several meters when using holy fist, standard melee range with her weapons.

Standard Equipment: A Japanese sword and a hammer.

Intelligence: Average.

Weaknesses: Can be incapacitated temporarily if she receives enough pain and mental attacks

 

[Skylietz]

@Skylietz
We can't assume High-Godly Regen until we have an actual feat. Use her best feat.

It's mid-low at the moment then?

 

[Reppuzan]

As far as we can tell.

 

[Damage3245]

You should also mention Skylietz, that she can hit intangible spirits with her Exorcism techniques as seen when she fought Sayoko.

 

[Skylietz]

You should also mention Skylietz, that she can hit intangible spirits with her Exorcism techniques as seen when she fought Sayoko.

Ok, thanks for the input

 

[Skylietz]

and about the Gravity Blade, I forgot the exact weight of the blade when maxed out, is it 50,000kg? or 500 tons, or higher, I can't recall it properly, I think it can be used as the base Lifting Strength of the verse, and maybe also affect Durability and Striking Strength as the blade's weight alone can pierce through Fate's magical barrier

 

[Damage3245]

No problem. I'm surprised you didn't mention her light manipulation too as she was able to dispel that guys shadow magic when she activated it. And yes, the maximum we've seen yet is 500 tons from the Gravity Blade.

 

[Skylietz]

LOL yes, of course, her Grace of God / Holy Fist are light manipulation, added that too.

Ok, it's Class K Lifting Strength then,

and so the raw value of the AP / Striking Strength / Durablity is around Multi-City Block? 100 Tons to 1 Kiloton, I dunno much about energy conversion CMIIW

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage

I have said this before, and I will say it again.

DO NOT USE THE POWERLISTING WIKI AS A SOURCE!

The vast majority of their pages are flagrantly unreliable and have everything from "Badass Manipulation" to different types of Omnipotence.

Just don't.

Do you think that we should have some sort of regulation that informs our members about this?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Skylietz

Touta's lifting strength seems fine.

Not sure about AP. I don't think we have a good, calculated speed feat for Touta yet.

@Antvasima

I'd think so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to write an appropriately worded regulation that avoids directly insulting the Superpower wiki. I am not sure which rules age that we should place it in though.

 

[Skylietz]

@Reppuzan

As for Touta speed, maybe we can use speedscaling from Negi (MHS+) for his Magia Erebea mode, as he could competitively keep up with Negi with Raiten Taisou II (and it appeared that Touta absorbed some of the lightning attack from Negi and made it his own, and able to use Raiten Taisou mode as well while in Magia Ereba mode) and finally getting the upper hand for a bit with his some kind of Reactive Evolution or maybe Statistic Amplification triggered by his emotional state.

For a base Touta, early on the series, maybe he was around Superhuman level of Speed, gradually stepped up to Subsonic with the introduction of basic Shundo, and he progressively getting faster by then, and finally beat the Werewolf's speed with his base form (finally reached Hypersonic perhaps?), and after his intensive training with Dana, he should be stronger and faster by then,

Oh and, do you agree with Speed of Light of Karin's Holy Fist? judging from what Rakan's said SoL is the top value, mid value I think it's Relativistic+, with the lowest possible value should be Sub-Relativistic+ (but I think it's unlikely, as Rakan implies that he can react / adapt to any attack that slower than lightspeed, lightning speed for example, which is about 30% SoL (Relativistic) according to http://www.maine.gov/mema/prepare/prep_display.shtml?163524)

me and @Damage are trying to reread the series and gathering the materials, hope we can help to contribute with the UQ Holder page (and possibly Negima as well)

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

Jack couldn't stop Karin's Holy Fist when he was kidding around but when he turned it up a notch he was kicking her butt all over the city.

Negima/UQ Holder's God and top tiers are already Sub Relativistic in speed due to Base Negi Post Rebirth being able to blitz one of the Averruncus series and then absolutely destroying the other in RT(Pre Rebirth RT was already MHS+ almost bordering on Low Sub-Relativistic) .

God Tiers(Versions of the Lifemaker, Negi, Nagi and Dana) should probably be Relativistic due Lifemaker Negi casually being 10s of times faster than top tiers like Fate and Eva which is evident when he blitz them both in 0.03 secs and was already in the process of attacking Touta.

 

[Skylietz]

@Sage

Please reread 132, it was Karin's opening that made Rakan could do the counter-attack, by doing so he also risked himself of getting hurt (proven by his arm being sliced off), and don't forget that Karin's combat skill is clearly below Rakan, her strongest attack couldn't break through Rakan's defensive stance, not to mention her much more limited stamina and after she took enough pain from the barrages of punches she couldn't even maintained the God of Grace mode and beaten severely later..

So, it's still clear that the Holy Fist's speed is still unavoidable by Rakan, and he was not kidding around.

I dunno about the other characters, as they were from Negima, but it took him 0.01 sec to blitzed Fate, and 0.02 sec later he blitzed Eva, and later Touta reacted to the attack and absorbed the lightning with Magia Erebea, even managed to spell "Yukihi--" before that lol.

Let's take a look the distance from the Negi to Fate is about 5 meter at most, then his speed is just around 1.4 Mach (there is a calculator for that) but still can be multiplied by 15 (15 lightning spears attack at once) = about 22 Mach (Hypersonic+), correct me if i am wrong.

and Touta can keep up with Negi-Ialda's Raiten Taisou II and even managed to get the upper hand before being interrupted by the Rakan and Albireo.

 

[Damage3245]

We know that Negi's lightning form has a speed of at least Mach 437 due to it being stated that he can move at 150km/s back in Negima. And this was when he first unveiled the form too.

 

[Skylietz]

Ok, I know less about Negima, and maybe we can go for Sub-Relativistic to Relativistic if using what being said by the characters such as "lightning-speed shundo", "he is as fast as lightning" etc, but judging by the current feat on the UQ Holder, I think MHS+ is still appropriate for top tier characters

 

[Damage3245]

I agree that MHS+ is appropriate for top-tiers, with the added note of Karin's Holy Fist likely being lightspeed in her character profile. It wouldn't be an unwarranted outlier because Jack Rakan specifically noted on how fast her attacks were, and we've seen that her Nimbus Holy Light form releases light when she uses it and it's what lets her shoot her Holy Fist attacks.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Skylietz

BAD idea to speed-scale off Negi unless Touta is using Raiten Taiso, and even that is a stretch since it's explicitly Negi's fastest technique.

I'd rather not do guesswork on his speed.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah, Touta is definitely not equal to Negi's speed unless he has Raiten Tasio active (which he can't do on his own).

He does have good reactions though to be able to absorb Negi's attack when Negi tries blitzing him in chapter 132.