Upgrade every bubble/world from Maou Gakuin to tier 2A

[imZer0Null]

So a quick question, as I'm going to have to spend some time waking up before I go through all the posts here, what proves these divine domains are all 4-D?

I discuss that here, but to give you a very brief summary, like 3-ish divine domains kinda meet at least one of the criteria required for a "world" or something similar to be considered a universe (4-D space-time continuums), and all divine domains are assumed to have a similar structure based on some statements from the novel.
However, IMO the notion that divine domains are 4-D space-time continuums can definitely still be contested (due to possible flowery language and such), so your input on whether or not divine domains can even be considered separate 4-D space-time continuums to begin with would be appreciated.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Reading through the OP, i saw no proof of Universed sized santuaries, so if possible link it here, maybe i missed it.

Post in thread 'Upgrade every bubble/world from Maou Gakuin to tier 2A' https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgra...om-maou-gakuin-to-tier-2a.135227/post-4682052
Null already confirmed sanctuaries meet the criteria for 4D structure

what is the bolded statement suppose to even mean?

It literally the size of the future world crystal is equal to the size of the bubble, meaning its infinite. Destroying the future world crystal is also what qualified Anos for low 2C in this forum, meaning future world = 4D structure

"To destroy a Sanctuary, you must destroy all the possible timelines"

This only applys to the future world not all sanctuaries because of how order of the future works.

also Who is Nafta?

The god with the order of the future...you really know nothing about MGnK huh?

especially not "I was in an Endless Wilderness"
Also what are traces?
you made this claim

The size of the world of traces is infinite. It contains everything and anything that has ever existed since the beginning of militia world and will still hold everything till its end. Anos couldn't destroy this world with "egil grone angdroa" precisely because it also contained the record of this magic (this last point may just be my head can on though).

I'm going to stop here and not reply to every other controversy you have about other mentioned sanctuaries as that'll take too much time for me.
Its stated the sanctuaries (sanctuaries= domain/world of the gods with there being one for each god and the order they control) are a microcosm of the bubble, this doesn't relate to their size being finite but rather they mirror the qualities of the bubble itself (being infinite in size). All sanctuaries are stated to be this way this with as long as some sanctuaries have been proven to be 4D all other sanctuaries are 4D as well.

Now OP and nightmare's point is that, "if the bubble is infinite and can contain a structure (azure sky which is being considered finite until stated otherwise) that contains other 4D structures, then the bubble should be able to contain an infinite number of them (azure sky) hence the argument for 2A bubble.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Post in thread 'Upgrade every bubble/world from Maou Gakuin to tier 2A' https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgra...om-maou-gakuin-to-tier-2a.135227/post-4682052
Null already confirmed sanctuaries meet the criteria for 4D structure


It literally the size of the future world crystal is equal to the size of the bubble, meaning its infinite. Destroying the future world crystal is also what qualified Anos for low 2C in this forum, meaning future world = 4D structure

This only applys to the future world not all sanctuaries because of how order of the future works.

The god with the order of the future...you really know nothing about MGnK huh?


The size of the world of traces is infinite. It contains everything and anything that has ever existed since the beginning of militia world and will still hold everything till its end. Anos couldn't destroy this world with "egil grone angdroa" precisely because it also contained the record of this magic (this last point may just be my head can on though).

I'm going to stop here and not reply to every other controversy you have about other mentioned sanctuaries as that'll take too much time for me.
Its stated the sanctuaries (sanctuaries= domain/world of the gods with there being one for each god and the order they control) are a microcosm of the bubble, this doesn't relate to their size being finite but rather they mirror the qualities of the bubble itself (being infinite in size). All sanctuaries are stated to be this way this with as long as some sanctuaries have been proven to be 4D all other sanctuaries are 4D as well.

Now OP and nightmare's point is that, "if the bubble is infinite and can contain a structure (azure sky which is being considered finite until stated otherwise) that contains other 4D structures, then the bubble should be able to contain an infinite number of them (azure sky) hence the argument for 2A bubble.

Nothing here answered my contentions.

My main contention is 4D space Azure sky
The OP claimed it contained the santuaries and their timelines in its entirety that’s the proof I’m more concerned about

 

[Tatsumi504]

Nothing here answered my contentions.

My main contention is 4D space Azure sky
The OP claimed it contained the santuaries and their timelines in its entirety that’s the proof I’m more concerned about

No offense, but it feels like you chose to ignore almost everything I said.
Sanctuaries are more or less proven to be 4D, I fail to see why 4D azure sky should be under contention when its literally a structure that contains countless 4D structures. I've never heard of a 3A space housing 4D structures though I'm not the most knowledgeable on such topics, but the burden of proof falls on you to prove H3A can contain 4D world.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No offense, but it feels like you chose to ignore almost everything I said.
Sanctuaries are more or less proven to be 4D, I fail to see why 4D azure sky should be under contention when its literally a structure that contains countless 4D structures. I've never heard of a 3A space housing 4D structures though I'm not the most knowledgeable on such topics, but the burden of proof falls on you to prove H3A can contain 4D world.

Your prove of 4D azure sky is faulty which I already addressed which makes all other arguments wrong.
And when everyone starts understanding a 3D space can hold other 3D space everything becomes easier.
To clarify it better so you can understand
Even if the sanctuary is a 4D structure, another 4D structure can hold countless of them. Won’t make the larger space a higher dimensional space.

Very simple

 

[Everything12]

So the three Divine Sanctuaries used as evidence are the domain of the God of the Past, the domain of the God of the Future, and the domain of the God who created the world.

I think even if they are accepted as Low 2-C structure they would be exceptions, not the rule.

Even then I'm still kinda of iffy on declaring the Land of Traces and the Future World Crystal as entire four dimensional structures because of their nature of reflecting only a part of the world's timeline with it's past and possible future.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

So the three Divine Sanctuaries used as evidence are the domain of the God of the Past, the domain of the God of the Future, and the domain of the God who created the world.

I think even if they are accepted as Low 2-C structure they would be exceptions, not the rule.

Even then I'm still kinda of iffy on declaring the Land of Traces and the Future World Crystal as entire four dimensional structures because of their nature of reflecting only a part of the world's timeline with it's past and possible future.

Affecting those timelines in sanctuaries didn't affected real world Timelines. They are different space time continuums

 

[Everything12]

Indeed, they aren't the actual past and futures, but reflections of them. They don't hold entire timelines because that's an intrinsic property of Divine Sanctuaries, they contain copies of part of the timelines because that is the the purpose of those specific Sanctuaries.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Indeed, they aren't the actual past and futures, but reflections of them. They don't hold entire timelines because that's an intrinsic property of Divine Sanctuaries, they contain copies of part of the timelines because that is the the purpose of those specific Sanctuaries.

Actually no they have their own timeline. The copies of the timelines of militia world is just kept there and NAFTA future world creates a new timeline from present to future. OP already has the scans.

Also for your concern about if they are exceptions. Actually no every divine sanctuaries are same. Its clearly stated here. So each and every realms should have their own timelines.

Spoiler: Chapter 422

「ここが神々の蒼穹。見えている風景は、どれも神域」
　エンネスオーネの芽宮神都や、ナフタの限局世界と同じものだ。
　確かに、どれもこれも、凄まじい魔力を発している。
　神界だけあって、その力を最大まで発揮できるのだろうな。

This is the azure sky of the gods. Every landscape you see is a divine realm.
　It is the same as the budding divine city of Ennesione and the limited world of Nafta.
　Indeed, all of them emit tremendous magical power.
　I guess it is only in the divine realm that they can display their power to the maximum.

Time God domain is also a sanctuary for God of time like others.

Spoiler: Time God Domain

“The space that Eugo Ra Raviaz created was isolated from the world and when I killed him we became unable to return to the time we left. As a result, we have arrived a few hours ahead.”

Like all sanctuaries the Time God sanctuary is isolated from Mortal world and has different timeflow.

Spoiler: Past

“However, I who received the power of Eugo Ra Raviaz am now invulnerable. I cannot be hurt.”
Eugo Ra Raviaz is the god of time and can freely return a body’s time with no penalties. It doesn’t stop a bodies time as that would be unsuitable but if you ever get hurt you can just go back to before it happened.

Avis goes back past to heal himself inside time domains. If there is no past he shouldn't be able to do that.

Spoiler: Future.

“I will drink all thy time and make thee disappear.”
Silver light surrounds me and time accelerates. 1 billion years——-10 billion years——-. Eternity piled up in an instant. Even the body of a demon king cannot survive forever. One day I will die and disappear.

Aivis accelerated Anos time to eternity. If there is no future this shouldn't be possible.

Time

I hope this clears up sanctuaries having past, present and future.

 

[Everything12]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those last three quotes are from the beginning of the series, the battles depicted in the anime where Anos fights Ivis Necron?

Which is probably a few chapters before the part where they talk about Divine Sanctuaries. Where exactly does it say that the area where Anos fought Ivis was a Divine Sanctuary and part of the Azure Sky?

Also they are the same in that they are Divine Sanctuaries. It doesn't have to mean they are exactly the same and all as big as the Sanctuaries designed around functions related related the past and future.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those last three quotes are from the beginning of the series, the battles depicted in the anime where Anos fights Ivis Necron?

Which is probably a few chapters before the part where they talk about Divine Sanctuaries. Where exactly does it say that the area where Anos fought Ivis was a Divine Sanctuary and part of the Azure Sky?

Also they are the same in that they are Divine Sanctuaries. It doesn't have to mean they are exactly the same and all as big as the Sanctuaries designed around functions related related the past and future.

Well 3 domains.

1. God of time
2. Past world revenshed
3. Future world NAFTA

Already has different timelines. Well author intends to use word "same" inorder to explain they have same functionality. They can't go on and explore every realms to show they have different timelines right ?

For now 3 realms are introduced and 3 realms already shown to have different timelines. So best we can do is conclude each realm has different timelines. Also it's clearly mentioned each sanctuaries being macrocosom of the world.

Well from WOG each gods having their own world is strong evidence to support each Sanctuaries being universal.

 

[Everything12]

All that says is that the god came from the world where gods come from. Not that they are currently in said realm of the gods.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

All that says is that the god came from the world where gods come from. Not that they are currently in said realm of the gods.

It states space created by Eugo Ra RRavia. His space is his Domain as every order depends on their domains. NAFTA faught using her domain. Land of traces also same.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Devil Garden

ノイズ交じりの声が響く。
「時間の歯車は回り始める。過去と未来が交わることのないように、過去に置き去りにされた汝は、未来の私には永久に追いつけない」
　時間をすっ飛ばしたかのような速度で、＜極獄界滅灰燼魔砲エギル・グローネ・アングドロア＞を避け、俺の背後に回り込んだエクエスは、右腕を振り上げていた。
　その手の歯車が高速で回転し、俺の顔面を轢き潰さんとばかりに突き出された。
　左手でそれをわしづかみにし、俺は無造作に受け止めた。
　歯車が手の中で回転するが、それをぐっと押さえつけ、停止させる。
「……ギッ……！？」
「お前の未来が、俺の過去に届くと思ったか？」
　＜運命の歯車＞ベルテクスフェンブレムが回転し、再び奴の魔力が上昇する。

A voice with noise echoes.
"The wheels of time begin to turn. Just as the past and the future will never intersect, you, left behind in the past, will never catch up with me in the future."
　With a speed that seemed to have skipped through time, Eques dodged the <Egil Grone Angudoroa, the Extreme Prisoner of the World of Ashes> and came around behind me, raising his right arm.
　The cogwheel of his hand spun at high speed and was thrust out as if to run over my face.
　I grabbed it with my left hand and took it carelessly.
　The gear spun in my hand, but I held it down and brought it to a stop.
"......Git......!"
"Did you think your future could reach my past?"
　The "Gear of Destiny" beltex fenbrem rotates, and his magical power rises once again.

三面世界のあらゆる場所に銅の歯車が埋め込まれる。
空や地表、氷の街や、森、山々の至るところで、その＜運命の歯車＞が回り始めた。
「汝が身動きひとつすれば、三面世界＜魔王庭園＞は創世の秩序ごと脆く砕け散る。それこそが、ベルテクスフェンブレムがたった今定めた、決して逃れられず、決して覆すことのできない運命だ」

Copper gears are embedded everywhere in the three-sided world.
　In the sky, on the surface of the earth, in cities of ice, in forests and mountains, the wheels of destiny began to turn.
"If you make a single move, the entire three-sided world of the Garden of the Demon King will shatter into fragments, as will the entire order of creation. That is the fate that Vertex Fenwrem has just decreed, a fate that cannot be escaped and cannot be overturned."

「……滅ぼせるはずがない。遅い早いではなく、運命は先に決まっているのだ。たとえ創世より前の過去に遡って力を発揮しようと、＜運命の歯車＞はそれより先に＜魔王庭園＞を滅ぼす……」

"...... cannot be destroyed. The destiny is not slow or fast, but it is decided ahead of time. Even if you go back to the past before the creation and exert your power, the <Gear of Destiny> will destroy the <Demon King's Garden> before it does. ......"

Devil Garden has its own timeline past present and future.

I believe it's safe to conclude every sanctuaries has different timelines as whichever sanctuaries we are introduced to shown to have different timelines.

 

[Everything12]

That's already been mentioned and I've told my opinion on it.

 

[Dereck03]

That's already been mentioned and I've told my opinion on it.

I strongly suggest that if you want a decent elaboration wait for Null to do it after a while, tbh Nightmare points are kinda iffy and make me want to reject this thread ty.

 

[Everything12]

I understand, and know I'm not the best person to talk about the topic. However, I don't want opinions I disagree with to go uncontested for a period of time, where other users can percieve that as them not being disagreed with, thus they are agreed with and so they should to.

 

[Dereck03]

However, I don't want opinions I disagree with to go uncontested for a period of time, where other users can percieve that as them not being disagreed with, thus they are agreed with and so they should to.

I know, but the point is that if you want an answer, you will only get an unanswered loop.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's already been mentioned and I've told my opinion on it.

Just confused btw. I thought you are asking for proof for each Sanctuaries having different timelines. Am i wrong?
Sorry if I am mistaken.

 

[Fixxed]

I will reply but not now, i have many thing to do

 

[Tatsumi504]

So the three Divine Sanctuaries used as evidence are the domain of the God of the Past, the domain of the God of the Future, and the domain of the God who created the world.

I think even if they are accepted as Low 2-C structure they would be exceptions, not the rule.

Even then I'm still kinda of iffy on declaring the Land of Traces and the Future World Crystal as entire four dimensional structures because of their nature of reflecting only a part of the world's timeline with it's past and possible future.

They're more or less accepted as 4D structures and it was destroying the future world that originally gave Anos his 2C rating in this forum.
The future world is accepted as low 2C, all sanctuaries are said to be a microcosm of the entire bubble meaning they all have the same structure. If future world is low 2C all other sanctuaries are automatically low 2C by having the same structure.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Your prove of 4D azure sky is faulty which I already addressed which makes all other arguments wrong.
And when everyone starts understanding a 3D space can hold other 3D space everything becomes easier.
To clarify it better so you can understand
Even if the sanctuary is a 4D structure, another 4D structure can hold countless of them. Won’t make the larger space a higher dimensional space.

Very simple

You're derailing at this point. Sanctuaries have been confirmed more or less as low 2C structures. The burden of proof falls on you to prove a 3A space is capable of containing low 2C structures.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You're derailing at this point. Sanctuaries have been confirmed more or less as low 2C structures. The burden of proof falls on you to prove a 3A space is capable of containing low 2C structures.

Better to wait for other staffs or everything to reply.

 

[Antvasima]

@UchihaSlayer96 @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer

Would any of you be willing to help Everything12 with evaluating this please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgrade-every-bubble-world-from-maou-gakuin-to-tier-2a.135227/post-4684580

https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgrade-every-bubble-world-from-maou-gakuin-to-tier-2a.135227/post-4684710

 

[PrinceofPein]

You're derailing at this point. Sanctuaries have been confirmed more or less as low 2C structures. The burden of proof falls on you to prove a 3A space is capable of containing low 2C structures.

Please try to read my points accurately , not once did I claim the sanctuaries are not low2C structures. I’ve always used the term “if” and “even”

My claim has always been is there a reason why a low2C structure can not hold a smaller low 2C structure. I.e. Two 3D spaces with time flowing in both
And I was asking for proof of what was stated in the OP
“The azure sky holds each sanctuary timeline in its entirety”
This was the proof I was asking for
Pretty simple to comprehend.
But to give you another analogy since you don’t seem to understand

There are countless boxes in a room, the room holding those boxes does not become higher D automatically without further contexts.
The context is what I am asking for,
it’s pretty simple and straightforward.

I would wait for the OP to reply or Null’s reply since he said he will reply to me later on.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Please try to read my points accurately , not once did I claim the sanctuaries are not low2C structures. I’ve always used the term “if” and “even”

My claim has always been is there a reason why a low2C structure can not hold a smaller low 2C structure. I.e. Two 3D spaces with time flowing in both
And I was asking for proof of what was stated in the OP
“The azure sky holds each sanctuary timeline in its entirety”
This was the proof I was asking for
Pretty simple to comprehend.
But to give you another analogy since you don’t seem to understand

There are countless boxes in a room, the room holding those boxes does not become higher D automatically without further contexts.
The context is what I am asking for,
it’s pretty simple and straightforward.

I would wait for the OP to reply or Null’s reply since he said he will reply to me later on.

If that's the case then I doubt there's any evidence to prove what you're currently contesting.
However I fail to comprehend why this is an issue as azure sky containing countless low 2C structures should at least make it 2B in size

 

[PrinceofPein]

If that's the case then I doubt there's any evidence to prove what you're currently contesting.
However I fail to comprehend why this is an issue as azure sky containing countless low 2C structures should at least make it 2B in size

Read up above for this and also what Everything said

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

There is already 4 Sanctuaries has enough evidence to prove low 2C Sanctuaries. Other Sanctuaries are stated to be same as them. Beside NAFTA future world can be argued for 2C to 2B.

 

[Antvasima]

@Everything12 @Pain_to12 @Nullflowerblush

What do you think should be done here?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Wrong Null.
You're looking for @imZer0Null.

 

[Orioreeem]

Lmao

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

@imZer0Null

What do you think should be done here?

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Everything12 @Pain_to12 @Nullflowerblush

What do you think should be done here?

Nullzero and fixxed said they will reply to the arguments later on, so I think it’s better to wait for their replies before anything is decided

 

[imZer0Null]

...

The only disagreement I'm gonna elaborate on for now is your opinions on the Land of Traces.

Nothing here suggest infinite world especially not "I was in an Endless Wilderness"

The statement "The land of traces...the boundless world that God created..." definitely at least suggests that the Land of Traces is infinite.

Also what are traces?

As stated in the novel, everything in the world, from the beginning of time 700 million years ago to the present moment, is contained in the Land of Traces, as traces. Traces are the "indestructible" and "immortal" past of all things, and are described as "indestructible" and "immortal" because you cannot destroy a trace by simply destroying it in the present, and would have to destroy it throughout its entire past to truly destroy it. This is supported by the fact that Anos needed "world-destroying" power to destroy traces.
The size of the Land of Traces is large enough to repeat the current 700 million years worth of traces a hundred times. In other words, the Land of Traces is large enough to contain 70 billion years worth of traces. The only way to destroy the Land of Traces is to exceed its overall capacity and carve a trace larger than 70 billion years.
The Land of Traces quite literally contains the entire past of the world, more specifically it currently contains 700 million years sections of the Militia World timeline and is capable of containing a 70 billion years section of the Militia World timeline.
The Land of Traces would definitely be rated as either High 3-A or (unquantifiably below baseline) Low 2-C in sheer size.

Your first claim was that the bubble contains the sanctuaries timeline in its entirety, please provide proof of that.
Nothing says the Bubbles are universal in size but even if they are universal in size it changes nothing as the bubble just becomes a H3A space and not an higher D space like you are claiming it to be, but please do provide the proof that the Bubble is higher D as nothing here states it is.

If I understand correctly, you're asking for proof that the bubble, and more specifically the azure sky, contains the divine domains' timelines in its entirety?
In that case, IF the divine domains are accepted as Low 2-C structures, then such proof is not at all needed as far as I know. You would first have to provide some valid reasons for why you think that the bubble does not contain the Low 2-C structures' entire timelines, because what you're asking for is essentially equivalent to asking for someone to prove that a multiverse contains the universes' entire timelines, which as far as I know does not have to be proved unless something indicates that it is not already the case.
Also, the azure sky was not proposed to be 4-D space because it contained universal sized spaces. It was proposed to be 4-D space because it contained 4-D space-time continuums. As you should know, IF the divine domains are accepted as separate 4-D space-time continuums, then they cannot be contained in 3-D space at all.
Sure, a Low 2-C structure can contain another smaller Low 2-C structure, but your example of "Two 3-D spaces with time flowing in both" is not an example of two separate space-time continuums to begin with from what I understand, as what you're describing is just 2 separate 3-D spaces with a single temporal dimension shared by both, making it a single Low 2-C structure. If the bigger Low 2-C structure was a infinite 4-D space, then it could contain a smaller 4-D space-time continuum, but if both Low 2-C structures were strictly separate 4-D space-time continuums, then I don't see how the bigger space-time continuum could contain a separate smaller space-time continuum in its 3-D space, without having another separate temporal dimension for the smaller space-time continuum, in which case the smaller space-time continuum could no longer be considered to be contained within the bigger space-time continuum, as the bigger space-time continuum does not contain the temporal dimension of the smaller space-time continuum.

In any case, that isn't actually extremely important. The azure sky of the gods definitely contains the divine domains, so if the divine domains are not accepted as 4-D space-time continuums, then the azure sky would not be 4-D space, but if the divine domains are accepted as 4-D space-time continuums, then the azure sky would be 4-D space (maybe even 5-D space according to some wiki standards, but I personally would not agree with it being 5-D space) unless something indicates that it is not already the case.

I think even if they are accepted as Low 2-C structure they would be exceptions, not the rule.

Even then I'm still kinda of iffy on declaring the Land of Traces and the Future World Crystal as entire four dimensional structures because of their nature of reflecting only a part of the world's timeline with it's past and possible future.

Sure. I personally don't really disagree with anything here.
In case you don't know, an upgrade very similar to this one was already proposed in the past, but it was rejected by me and other staff members based on almost the same reasoning as yours.
The only reason I even proposed the idea of 2-B bubbles was because of the following statement:

「各々の神域は、世界の縮図。世界の根源の上限が決まっているように、ダ・ク・カダーテの火露の数は決まっていて、この神域の花の数も決まっています」

"Each divine domain is a microcosm of the world. Just as the upper limit of the source of the world is fixed, so is the amount of fire dew in Da Ku Kadate, and the number of flowers in this divine domain."

縮図 - shukuzu - Translations: microcosm; microcosmos; reduced drawing; miniature copy.

If the above statement, along with the other statements about the divine domains having a similar structure in this thread (if there even are any), is not enough evidence in your opinion that the divine domains all have a similar structure, i.e. if at least a few divine domains are considered to be universes (space-time continuums), then all divine domains should be considered universes (space-time continuums), unless a certain divine domain has some clear contradictions, then that's completely fine. I personally don't have any more evidence that could support such a notion, so I would just consider this notion to be rejected then.

Anyways, I found something interesting that I think might settle this debate:

This seems to imply that, previously, the whole space that would make the Ocean Between was occupied entirely by a single universe, which would put a dent both on what I've said above and on an upgrade to 2-A. Unless the Ocean Between already existed outside of the original world and the latter's fragments were just scattered through it, then that means its size is just the sum of all the worlds, which would make it Low 2-C. Infinite 4-D space falls under that tier, and we already rate singular universes made out of multiple ones as Low 2-C, too.

There are ofc differences between Maou Gakuin's worlds and this "Ocean Between" (of which I know literally nothing of), but Ultima said that "we already rate singular universes made out of multiple ones as Low 2-C", so I think Maou Gakuin's worlds would probably be rated as Low 2-C regardless.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Thanks for the reply I will reply to it later on

 

[Dog3352]

The only disagreement I'm gonna elaborate on for now is your opinions on the Land of Traces.


The statement "The land of traces...the boundless world that God created..." definitely at least suggests that the Land of Traces is infinite.


As stated in the novel, everything in the world, from the beginning of time 700 million years ago to the present moment, is contained in the Land of Traces, as traces. Traces are the "indestructible" and "immortal" past of all things, and are described as "indestructible" and "immortal" because you cannot destroy a trace by simply destroying it in the present, and would have to destroy it throughout its entire past to truly destroy it. This is supported by the fact that Anos needed "world-destroying" power to destroy traces.
The size of the Land of Traces is large enough to repeat the current 700 million years worth of traces a hundred times. In other words, the Land of Traces is large enough to contain 70 billion years worth of traces. The only way to destroy the Land of Traces is to exceed its overall capacity and carve a trace larger than 70 billion years.
The Land of Traces quite literally contains the entire past of the world, more specifically it currently contains 700 million years sections of the Militia World timeline and is capable of containing a 70 billion years section of the Militia World timeline.
The Land of Traces would definitely be rated as either High 3-A or (unquantifiably below baseline) Low 2-C in sheer size.


If I understand correctly, you're asking for proof that the bubble, and more specifically the azure sky, contains the divine domains' timelines in its entirety?
In that case, IF the divine domains are accepted as Low 2-C structures, then such proof is not at all needed as far as I know. You would first have to provide some valid reasons for why you think that the bubble does not contain the Low 2-C structures' entire timelines, because what you're asking for is essentially equivalent to asking for someone to prove that a multiverse contains the universes' entire timelines, which as far as I know does not have to be proved unless something indicates that it is not already the case.
Also, the azure sky was not proposed to be 4-D space because it contained universal sized spaces. It was proposed to be 4-D space because it contained 4-D space-time continuums. As you should know, IF the divine domains are accepted as separate 4-D space-time continuums, then they cannot be contained in 3-D space at all.
Sure, a Low 2-C structure can contain another smaller Low 2-C structure, but your example of "Two 3-D spaces with time flowing in both" is not an example of two separate space-time continuums to begin with from what I understand, as what you're describing is just 2 separate 3-D spaces with a single temporal dimension shared by both, making it a single Low 2-C structure. If the bigger Low 2-C structure was a infinite 4-D space, then it could contain a smaller 4-D space-time continuum, but if both Low 2-C structures were strictly separate 4-D space-time continuums, then I don't see how the bigger space-time continuum could contain a separate smaller space-time continuum in its 3-D space, without having another separate temporal dimension for the smaller space-time continuum, in which case the smaller space-time continuum could no longer be considered to be contained within the bigger space-time continuum, as the bigger space-time continuum does not contain the temporal dimension of the smaller space-time continuum.

In any case, that isn't actually extremely important. The azure sky of the gods definitely contains the divine domains, so if the divine domains are not accepted as 4-D space-time continuums, then the azure sky would not be 4-D space, but if the divine domains are accepted as 4-D space-time continuums, then the azure sky would be 4-D space (maybe even 5-D space according to some wiki standards, but I personally would not agree with it being 5-D space) unless something indicates that it is not already the case.


Sure. I personally don't really disagree with anything here.
In case you don't know, an upgrade very similar to this one was already proposed in the past, but it was rejected by me and other staff members based on almost the same reasoning as yours.
The only reason I even proposed the idea of 2-B bubbles was because of the following statement:



縮図 - shukuzu - Translations: microcosm; microcosmos; reduced drawing; miniature copy.

If the above statement, along with the other statements about the divine domains having a similar structure in this thread (if there even are any), is not enough evidence in your opinion that the divine domains all have a similar structure, i.e. if at least a few divine domains are considered to be universes (space-time continuums), then all divine domains should be considered universes (space-time continuums), unless a certain divine domain has some clear contradictions, then that's completely fine. I personally don't have any more evidence that could support such a notion, so I would just consider this notion to be rejected then.

Anyways, I found something interesting that I think might settle this debate:


There are ofc differences between Maou Gakuin's worlds and this "Ocean Between" (of which I know literally nothing of), but Ultima said that "we already rate singular universes made out of multiple ones as Low 2-C", so I think Maou Gakuin's worlds would probably be rated as Low 2-C regardless.

I didn't quite understand what happened here in the end, will the worlds be accepted as 2B?

 

[Dog3352]

There are ofc differences between Maou Gakuin's worlds and this "Ocean Between" (of which I know literally nothing of), but Ultima said that "we already rate singular universes made out of multiple ones as Low 2-C", so I think Maou Gakuin's worlds would probably be rated as Low 2-C regardless.

I didn't quite understand this in the end, isn't this about another anime, the one about the shield hero? For a second I thought he was talking about the silver water sacred sea, for those who don't know silver water existed outside the worlds, and it extends throughout the silver sea, there's even a character who uses silver water as a type of frame, everything that draws in the silver water simply appears, in this case, the peata water and practically what exists outside the worlds, in all 99 layers, and in the silver water that the countless/infinite are located worlds of maou gakuin.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I didn't quite understand this in the end, isn't this about another anime, the one about the shield hero? For a second I thought he was talking about the silver water sacred sea, for those who don't know silver water existed outside the worlds, and it extends throughout the silver sea, there's even a character who uses silver water as a type of frame, everything that draws in the silver water simply appears, in this case, the peata water and practically what exists outside the worlds, in all 99 layers, and in the silver water that the countless/infinite are located worlds of maou gakuin.

Hate to say what you saying is nothing related to the thread. It's about only a single bubble world not whole Silver Sea.

 

[WilederToster46]

Objection, hearsay

 

[Tatsumi504]

we already rate singular universes made out of multiple ones as Low 2-C", so I think Maou Gakuin's worlds would probably be rated as Low 2-C regardless

I was under the impression that this is determined by the distance between the universes which is unquantifiable, when he says universes does he mean separate space time? Otherwise why consider a collection of low 2C as a multiverse at all, whether finite, countless or infinite?

For now from what you've said unless there's evidence of a sanctuary not being low 2C I see no reason why this upgrade shouldn't happen.