Touhou Revisions: Stop bullying me, Junko Edition

[DragonEmperor23]

eh, I personally agree with Saikou on this one

of course you do, you're married to Saikou

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

wait so @Saikou What would Reimu and Marisa tiers scale to?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Read wants to make them High 4-C. But that'll just end up as 6-C since the feat in question isn't enough on its own to support this rating. And I just want to keep them scaled to High 3-A/Low 2-C.

 

[Read_this_post]

No. I want to make them different tiers between 6-C and High 3-A (none of which are high 4-C from what i see except yatagarsu which may actually be 4-C anyway) for the ones who do not scale to the high 3-A to low 2-C

Also based on saikous arguments they would be high 3-A to low 2-C whilst im going for solar systems level with the casualties calc.

Also please dont start memeposting.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I hope you know that Marisa's feat, even if you assume that it's a legit feat on its own, is not calcable at all. We have no timeframe, no distance, no size, no nothing.

 

[Udlmaster]

When is said High 3-A/Low 2-C thing gonna happen?

I mean, its gonna be pretty easy to do, all we gotta do is change High 4-C to "High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" and paste in the generic full fat, no added preservatives, no artificial colouring or flavouring Description.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

When we decide who to make High 3-A/Low 2-C.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I see. Yeah, I agree with Reimu and Co. fully scaling.

 

[Udlmaster]

We had bibles thrown out about who is gonna be High 3-A/Low 2-C, you even made a list yourself who was gonna be High 3-A/Low 2-C

 

[Read_this_post]

I hope you know that Marisa's feat, even if you assume that it's a legit feat on its own, is not calcable at all. We have no timeframe, no distance, no size, no nothing.

Thats far from what you said on the calc? Large star is a pretty clear indication of size. Especially when the term hoshi which iirc was used, explicitely referrs to celestial bodies (which translates into star since marisa is consistently associated with such), meaning it couldnt be anything but.

@Udlmaster We cant just rush to make the upgrades when the scaling is faulty and not agreed on. Unless you do it and then make the scaling changes after. There are some even saikou disagrees with scaling like seija

@Zephyros They really dont. Ap wise at least.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

A Large stat could indicate anything from slightly bigger than the sun to the size of the solar system. And size is like the least of the issues we have here.

I mean there is a reason the calc isn't used even in the current High 4-C state of affair.

 

[Read_this_post]

Then we either go with the minimum (noticeably bigger than our sun) to avoid a nlf or go with the most reasonable assumption like we do with every other high end/low end calc. The feat itself based on that is likely going to be nowhere below small star level.

Also i think the largest star discovered would extend just past jupiter. So it wouldnt be completely ss sized.

Edit: ÆONS Corrected me below. So still not completely ss sized. But closer at least.

 

[ÆONS]

@Read this post UY Scuti, the largest discovered star, extends past Saturn's orbit (though is still under Uranus')

 

[Junkoposter]

insert Uranus joke here

 

[ÆONS]

insert Uranus joke here </div>

oof

 

[Acesorou24]

While were on the subject of cintent revisions, can we take another look at Yukari, and Akyuu's statement of her power? I believe Akyuu's statement was not exaggerated, and I cite three pieces of evidence to support this belief.

Firstly, I address the theory that Yukari can remake the universe. Yukari has been shown in Canon to be able to manipulate conceptual boundaries, such as the boundary between Truth and Illusion. It's how she transported herself to the Moon by standing on the water's reflection. Ergo, it is not so far fetched to travel through time by manipulating the boundary between Then and Now, or to wipe out a universe by manipulating the boundary between Protons and Neutrons. In fact, I'd go so far as to say Akyuu's statement is an understatement, rather than an exaggeration. Theoretically, Yukari can manipulate the boundary between existence and nothingness, and unmake reality itself.

Second, even if we say she never exhibited the power, (which is ludicrous, given that she has shown similar powers before) there is still the matter of Akyuu's statement itself. There is no evidence to suggest that Akyuu was exaggerating, lying, or otherwise misleading in saying this. For context, the statement was made in the Gensokyo Chronicle, which is a guidebook to everything Gensokyo spanning multiple generations. As the ninth reincarnation of the original author, it is Akyuu's job to accurately "chronicle" everything noteworthy about Gensokyo, hence the name, Gensokyo Chronicle. If anything in the chronicle was proven to be misleading or untrue, it would undermine its very purpose. Thus, for Akyuu to exaggerate about Yukari's power at all would be detrimental to the purpose of her existence. Its thus far more likely Akyuu's statement is to be taken seriously, and at face value.

And then there's the matter of belief in that statement. Let's say for the sake of argument, Akyuu was exaggerating. Let's say that because she never has been observed doing these specific things, she cannot do them. None of that matters. The Gensokyo Chronicle is taken as absolute fact by all the humans of Gensokyo. If Akyuu writes that Yukari has the power to remake the universe, then humans will believe she has the power to remake the universe. Yukari is a Youkai. And a Youkai's existence is wholly dependent on human's belief in their abilities, and their belief in Youkai existence as a whole. It doesn't matter if Yukari never had that kind of power before. If enough humans in Gensokyo believe she has the power to remake the universe, then Yukari has the power to remake the universe. For these reasons, I propose that Yukari Yakumo be moved up to anywhere between Tier 3-A and Tier 2-B. While given her power in personal opinion should be higher, she is only stated to be able to completely remake the universe. If she can remake it, she can survive its unmaking in order to remake it. I would further argue that she could do this to any universe, but I will concede she has never been stated to be able to travel to other universes, even if evidence suggests it's within her power.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Yukari is getting scaling to High 3-A/Low 2-C, I believe.

 

[Acesorou24]

Then all is right in the world.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Honestly I think those arguments aren't the best. Universe creation out of those three feats is too big. Concept manipulators doesn't always mean universal level AP.

But

We have better stuff to scale from so it all works out anyway.

 

[Acesorou24]

Not even going to mention the mechanics of Gensokyo, and how even if Yukari never had the power before, because everyone believes she does, she has it now? That's pretty much how Youkai get their power. Youkai have powers because humans believe they have powers. If Humans didn't believe Youkai were any stronger than humans, they'd be no stronger than humans.

 

[ÆONS]

.

 

[Junkoposter]

mood

 

[Junkoposter]

this is never gonna finish ovo

 

[DragonEmperor23]

u rite

 

[Read_this_post]

Id imagine saikou is going to take a little longer than 4 days to respond. Id rather him take his time than make a lackluster response, so its best to give these responses time. Theres no need to bump this quickly or rush. If it takes over two weeks or something, then i can understand bumping.

Also why is everyone here so freaking doubtful of everything?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

True, Fate AP revisions took like four months so this isn't that bad in comparison.

 

[Junkoposter]

well Fate is Fate ovo

 

[ÆONS]

FULL TOUHOU 17 IS OUT, IS THIS THREAD GONNA END?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Just going to drop this from Touhou 17 if people are still doubting infinite hell


Clearly smaller than Earth, guys

 

[Udlmaster]

Just going to drop this from Touhou 17 if people are still doubting infinite hell

Clearly smaller than Earth, guys

Doubters be Reimu and Saikou being Yachie

 

[Azh'Voroph_the_Crypt_Lord]

Why Shiki Eiki doesn't have Portal Creation in her profile?

In her fight in Touhou 9 it was seen that she created a kind of Vortexes from which some kind of Danmaku came out.

I think this would be Portal Creation.

Also, if she made the Underworld larger than Hell, does it would be some kind of RW or at least Spatial Manip?

 

[Azh'Voroph_the_Crypt_Lord]

Also, if Sanae's ability is to create miracles and she got this from her godly heritage, don't you think all gods should have that same ability to generate miracles because of that divine nature they have?

Apart from that I remember Kanako in MoF had said something like that was the power of a God.

 

[Azh'Voroph_the_Crypt_Lord]

One more thing, I heard Kanako was able to defeat Yatagarasu and give it to Okuu to generate a nuclear fusion or something like this.

If that's real, I don't think her level would be simply "unknown".

Although I can't confirm it because I haven't reached SA Stage 6 yet (Orin you-).

 

[Azh'Voroph_the_Crypt_Lord]

Btw I don't think that the Gods ability to create will be just "Limited Conceptual Manipulation"

 

[Udlmaster]

Btw I don't think that the Gods ability to create will be just "Limited Conceptual Manipulation"

It's because they can create Concepts via naming them but nothing says they can change or destroy them afterwards.

 

[Read_this_post]

@Creeplord Fam. This is an entirely different topic altogether. This thread is about the tier changes. If you want to discuss this, you will need to make a different content revision.

 

[Azh'Voroph_the_Crypt_Lord]

@Creeplord Fam. This is an entirely different topic altogether. This thread is about the tier changes. If you want to discuss this, you will need to make a different content revision.

This thread is a Touhou Revision in general, not just the tiers. If this were the case then it would not be logical that Saikou start it naming the missing skills in Kasen's profile (btw I heard that she could make a BFR to a non-existent place or something like that).

 

[Azh'Voroph_the_Crypt_Lord]

Anyway...

While we are waiting for Saikou's reply we can discuss many things about Touhou.

For example we can discuss why Yukari destroys Kratos and GoWverse, even if we wank them, also we can discuss about why cocobal Super is a fodder verse compared to Touhou Project, something more interesting would be to discuss why Asriel is a fodder Réquiem if he fights Yuyuko if the speed is not equalized or why Bill Cipher cannot defeat even Rumia.

There are many things we can discuss in this thread about Touhou Project.

 

[Read_this_post]

Those were only a few abilities noted in the op. This other stuff you mention is about different abilities for a wide variety of characters that doesnt tie in with the current discussion or op. It is probably more practical to make a seperate revision to discuss all these new changes.

No. That stuff is for a discussion thread. If we discuss all that here, we will just end up wasting comment space resulting in derailing and threads filled with completely off topic discussion.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Anyway...

While we are waiting for Saikou's reply we can discuss many things about Touhou.

For example we can discuss why Yukari destroys Kratos and GoWverse, even if we wank them, also we can discuss about why cocobal Super is a fodder verse compared to Touhou Project, something more interesting would be to discuss why Asriel is a fodder Réquiem if he fights Yuyuko if the speed is not equalized or why Bill Cipher cannot defeat even Rumia.

There are many things we can discuss in this thread about Touhou Project.

Yes and you discuss things about a verse in the DISCUSSION thread, not a CRT.