Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,241
- 10,569
Getting another tiny little thing that'll be important later out of the way. No, this isn't a part of the larger upgrades I have planned.
The Feat
In BAiJR, the sky shatters, breaking the illusory moon in the process. This is revealed to be Suika shattering, and then subsequently remaking, the Heavens. Since Heaven is an infinitely large space (one split into multiple realms), this was long considered a high 3-A (now 2-C with what we know now) feat. This was later removed due to some issues with the feat, which I have come to contest now that I've gathered a lot of additional context regarding Heaven, the moon, and associated topics.
The Problem & (Very Obvious) Solution
The main issue with this feat at a glance is how Suika only broke the canopy of the Heavens, and not Heaven itself. This is because the text uses 天蓋 to represent Heaven, which translates to canopy. This is just... blatantly not true. She does say she destroyed the canopy of the Heavens, but the next line where she says she tears Heaven apart is misinterpreted:
"But What About Tenkai and Tengai?"
This is a somewhat weird point that was originally brought up; The argument is that Touhou always uses tenkai (天界) to represent Heaven in its entirety. Since Suika explicitly uses 天 by itself, there's no confirmation she affected Heaven at all. The first issue here is one of common sense; How, exactly, did Suika affect a part of actual Heaven (we know the canopy described is part of tenkai, since Koishi says tenkai is what's between the earth and moon) if she actually destroyed some completely random, unrelated thing? It's like trying to destroy the roof to someone's house, and then blowing up an unrelated house several blocks away. The other issue is one of translation; 天界 is not the only valid term for Heaven, as SWR uses both that and 天 interchangeably, with characters referring to the same location (in this case, Bhavaagra) with both terms on multiple occasions. This is supported by Aya using multiple terms to refer to Heaven, as does Ichirin, or how SoPM has an article on Heaven that does not refer to it with 天界, or how SWR does the same... honestly, there are probably more examples, but the point is that pretending that there's only one possible way to say Heaven is just flat-out wrong. With that being the case, and aforementioned logical inconsistency, it should be clear BAiJR is in fact referring to the real Heaven, and not some other realm (nevermind the fact that I couldn't find an instance of any other location being referred to as Heaven/the heavens besides, yknow, Heaven).
The Changes
Suika gets this feat added to her profile, mainly as an AP feat, but also as a speed and range feat. She uses her density manipulation to repair Heaven once she's done ******* around, and Aya sees the individual pieces move across the sky and reform the illusory moon. Since Heaven is infinitely large, Suika's attack speed with her density manipulation would be infinite, acting as a good supporting feat for the cast as they can dodge her attacks. Of course, since Heaven is accepted as 2-C, and she used her powers to destroy and reconstruct it, her range would be low multiversal. The justification for her AP and range would be something like this:
"Shattered Heaven all the way up to its canopy while sitting on earth and later repaired it in the course of a single night, with Heaven an infinitely large plane split into many separate realms"
And for speed, it'd be this:
"Using her density manipulation, she could cause the fragments of Heaven, an infinitely large realm, to gather and reform the Heavens over the course of a single night"
Conclusion
Suika's Heaven busting is valid again, which doesn't really change a whole lot but will be relevant a long time from now. Also, I'm an idiot for posting this one day before Touhou 19 drops, though I think it's fitting we're discussing a feat involving severely ******* up Heaven right before aGoku Sun Wukong inspired 2hu is revealed.
The Feat
In BAiJR, the sky shatters, breaking the illusory moon in the process. This is revealed to be Suika shattering, and then subsequently remaking, the Heavens. Since Heaven is an infinitely large space (one split into multiple realms), this was long considered a high 3-A (now 2-C with what we know now) feat. This was later removed due to some issues with the feat, which I have come to contest now that I've gathered a lot of additional context regarding Heaven, the moon, and associated topics.
The Problem & (Very Obvious) Solution
The main issue with this feat at a glance is how Suika only broke the canopy of the Heavens, and not Heaven itself. This is because the text uses 天蓋 to represent Heaven, which translates to canopy. This is just... blatantly not true. She does say she destroyed the canopy of the Heavens, but the next line where she says she tears Heaven apart is misinterpreted:
I've highlighted the parts of the original text that are most important here. Basically, Suika says that to shatter the canopy of the Heavens (天蓋), you need to tear apart the heavens (天; を is a causative verb in this context and was only highlighted to show that the text doesn't refer to the canopy of Heaven). In other words, she's saying that to destroy the roof of Heaven, she needs to tear the whole place down, which should kill any doubts about this only scaling to the canopy.
"But What About Tenkai and Tengai?"
This is a somewhat weird point that was originally brought up; The argument is that Touhou always uses tenkai (天界) to represent Heaven in its entirety. Since Suika explicitly uses 天 by itself, there's no confirmation she affected Heaven at all. The first issue here is one of common sense; How, exactly, did Suika affect a part of actual Heaven (we know the canopy described is part of tenkai, since Koishi says tenkai is what's between the earth and moon) if she actually destroyed some completely random, unrelated thing? It's like trying to destroy the roof to someone's house, and then blowing up an unrelated house several blocks away. The other issue is one of translation; 天界 is not the only valid term for Heaven, as SWR uses both that and 天 interchangeably, with characters referring to the same location (in this case, Bhavaagra) with both terms on multiple occasions. This is supported by Aya using multiple terms to refer to Heaven, as does Ichirin, or how SoPM has an article on Heaven that does not refer to it with 天界, or how SWR does the same... honestly, there are probably more examples, but the point is that pretending that there's only one possible way to say Heaven is just flat-out wrong. With that being the case, and aforementioned logical inconsistency, it should be clear BAiJR is in fact referring to the real Heaven, and not some other realm (nevermind the fact that I couldn't find an instance of any other location being referred to as Heaven/the heavens besides, yknow, Heaven).
The Changes
Suika gets this feat added to her profile, mainly as an AP feat, but also as a speed and range feat. She uses her density manipulation to repair Heaven once she's done ******* around, and Aya sees the individual pieces move across the sky and reform the illusory moon. Since Heaven is infinitely large, Suika's attack speed with her density manipulation would be infinite, acting as a good supporting feat for the cast as they can dodge her attacks. Of course, since Heaven is accepted as 2-C, and she used her powers to destroy and reconstruct it, her range would be low multiversal. The justification for her AP and range would be something like this:
"Shattered Heaven all the way up to its canopy while sitting on earth and later repaired it in the course of a single night, with Heaven an infinitely large plane split into many separate realms"
And for speed, it'd be this:
"Using her density manipulation, she could cause the fragments of Heaven, an infinitely large realm, to gather and reform the Heavens over the course of a single night"
Conclusion
Suika's Heaven busting is valid again, which doesn't really change a whole lot but will be relevant a long time from now. Also, I'm an idiot for posting this one day before Touhou 19 drops, though I think it's fitting we're discussing a feat involving severely ******* up Heaven right before a
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. And this is good, honestly I've had the translation argument before in which I really didn't care for articulation but this stuff gives me closure on it so agreed.
