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The Never-Ending Revisions Continue

DemonGodMitchAubin

DemonGodMitchAubin

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VS Battles
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New Calc was accepted: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Captain_Torch/Ikusatsunagi's_Slash_REVISION

This upgrades the Alvarez Arc... again

Here's my idea on the scaling

Likely High 7-A: Lucy, Base Wendy, Base Gray

High 7-A: Base Natsu, Spriggans

The last ones such as Laxus, Jellal, FDKM Natsu etc. are tricky, here are some options for these characters

At least High 7-A, likely 6-C

Likely 6-C

Or just 6-C

Don't really care which, but the characters above can One-Shot Spriggans, who are stronger than Ikusa-Tsunagi and based off the new feat, it's less than a 2X difference to get to Baseline 6-C, so I kinda prefer option 2
 
I'm not the most knowledgeable on Fairy Tail so my input may not be worth much but from what I can tell, Natsu uses what he claims is the 'power of Igneel' in his attack to one-shot Ikusa.

We can even see the clear difference between an ordinary attack from Natsu, and the attack that uses Igneel's power.

Natsu's key (the one that says 'Igneel's Power') is already rated to be High 7-A.

So in all honestly I think that this calc should only go towards justification for his Igneel's Power key, and not Base Natsu.

Or if not that (because I may be misinterpreting the keys) then it should go for Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu (which is also already High 7-A) because the attack he used to one-shot Ikusa is a Fire Dragon King Mode technique.
 
I do think that the Spriggans should scale to Ikusatsunagi, however I disagree with the "likely 6-C" since it's not based on anything.
 
@Damage

Natsu was not in Igneel's Power when he One-shot Ikusa Tsunagi

@CaptainTorch

I think we have enough to get a likely 6-C for characters who can one shot the spriggans who are stronger than Ikusa-Tsunagi, there isn't even a 2x difference to Baseline 6-C for the Calc

Basically...

2.02 Gigatons<Base Natsu<<<FDKM Natsu

I think 6-C is likely
 
6-C starts at 4.3GT so the difference is slightly higher than 2x actually. 2x 2.02GT is 4.04GT. Pretty High end, but we don't give multipliers for one-shots when we rate characters so even if we do, Likely 6-C isn't correct.
 
@Calaca

I still believe a likely or possibly 6-C would be warranted these characters should be pushing that level of power
 
Mitch, Natsu mentions Igneel's power and uses the name for one of Fire Dragon King Mode's techniques with the super punch that utterly destroys Ikusa. With the obvious power difference, this is obviously not Base Natsu's power.
 
Again, they're not scaling from a very High end High7-A feat. At least High 7-A is actually more accurate and you shouldn't get anything higher than that without better feats.
 
Well Base Wendy, Lucy, and Base Gray shouldn't have a Likely High 7A when it was Natsu that one shotted Ikusa in FDKM. They would still need an At Least 7A from Mard Geer calc though we don't know Ignia they r even on that lvl of power

Also there no need for a Likely 6C so they would just need At Least High 7A and call it a day
 
Alrighty, so...

Likely High 7-A: Lucy, Lisanna, Elfman etc.

High 7-A: Base Natsu, Base Gajeel, Spriggans etc.

At least High 7-A: FDKM Natsu, Laxus, Jellal etc.

Gildarts stays the same

Pretty simple
 
High 7A comes from Ikusa right and it's baseline? Natsu one shotted it with FDKM so how is Base Natsu High 7A? Natsu need the power oF FDKM so that mean his Base form wouldn't be able to hurt him then

Why also is Lucy, Lisanna, and Elfman also Likely High 7A?
 
Yet Natsu needed to FDKM to one shot Ikusa and Natsu used a weaker ver. of it against Jacob (who I guest suppose to be stronger then Ikusa) and got one shotted as well....

Heck if ya think about it, Natsu was going to use it against Brandish
 
Natsu used the same version of FDKM against Ikusa-Tsunagi just like he used against Jacob, the only time the form was different is when he was using Igneel's Power, which is indicated by dark red flames, plus Brandish scales above the god anyway
 
Yeah but Natsu used a weaker ver. of it and one shotted Jacob. To me that just means that's Ikusa is stronger then a few of the Spriggans which to me also proves that FT members by themselves can't beat a Spriggan 1v1 unless through power ups, they need help, exploit weakness, or a Spriggan holds back
 
Where is the proof that he used a weaker version agaisnst Jacob, there is no proof of that at all, in fact it should be stronger since Natsu gets stronger overtime, and there are FT members who can fight on par with Spriggans all the time, we already have the scaling, we just need to edit the numbers of the AP
 
It wasn't base Natsu that one shot Ikusa. He used a Fire Dragon King Mode attack, if anything this provides consistency that both Demolition Fist attacks are just High 7-A - not At least High 7-A.

We even see base Natsu use an attack against Ikusa and it did extremely little damage.

So base Natsu scaling to High 7-A from this seems iffy.
 
I'm sort of lost. Base Natsu staggers Ikuwhatshisface, so that would mean that they are comparable on some level and FDKM Natsu straight up one shots Ikuwhatshisname and that's where the suggested at least high 7A comes from right?

If what I say is accurate where is the complication?
 
BlackeJan said:
Yeah but Natsu used a weaker ver. of it and one shotted Jacob. To me that just means that's Ikusa is stronger then a few of the Spriggans which to me also proves that FT members by themselves can't beat a Spriggan 1v1 unless, through power-ups, they need help, exploit a weakness, or a Spriggan holds back
Click to expand...
Proof for Natsu using a weaker version of fdkm against jacob
 
Base Natsu is stronger than Ikusa Tsunagi, FT members were far more scared of Brandish and say she was strongest person they met at that point, I mean, they didn't even really flinch when Ikusa-Tsunagi showed up, so spriggans scale above Ikusa-Tsunagi, sonBase Natsu scales to High 7-A, why is this complicated
 
Natsu doesn't have "Igneel Power" anymore after battle with Zeref so when he used the SAME TECHNIQUE he just activating it with his own power + the FT wiki also says it hence why it's a weaker ver.

Base Natsu isn't stronger then Ikusa. He needed to use "Igneels Power" just to one shot it but his own power didn't do anything so no he's not stronger then Ikusa

EDIT: just b/c they didn't flinch doesn't mean they r stronger, we all know how Natsu is. I can go up against aliens who r stronger then me but still have unwavering courage to fight them head on
 
I agree with BlackeJan. Base Natsu is clearly not stronger than Ikusa.
 
@BlackeJan the power of Igneel can only ever be used once and that was used up when Natsu took on Zeref using it b4 that would have wasted the power hence why Natsu using that against Ikusa isn't possible.

FDKM and FDKM+Igneel's power are quite clearly different, I imagine that's what the wiki was referring too when it mentions Natsu's demolition fist without Igneel's power being weaker.

And then not flinching is more significant than ur trying to sell it. At the start of the arc Mashima outright states the Spriggans would be more powerful than any other enemy up to that point and that includes Iku. The whole point of the team reacting the way they did was to outline the significant gap in power between them and every other opponent.
 
It was constantly stated that the Spriggans are stronger than any enemy they've seen before, which would include Ikusatsunagi.

It's not that complicated really. Ikusatsunagi only tanked Natsu's normal punch, so that doesn't give much towards the comparison between base Natsu and Ikusa. However the fact that base Natsu is Spriggan level, who are definetly > Ikusatsunagi, means that he scales to the feat.
 
As for Natsu being stronger than Iku, while I can't say he is definitively more powerful it is clear based on the fact that a single punch from Natsu staggered the behemoth that they are at least comparable.
 
I'm not sure I wanna scale Natsu up there just because of a staggering. Is like the case of someone managing to make a higher tiered character nose bleed from a punch. That's something you can do without being comparable at all, staggering Ikusa doesn't mean Natsu is comparable when Ikusa doesn't seem to be affected at all.
 
Being somewhat blunt; this is devolving from a scaling issue to ignoring what was stated and insinuated both within the context of the story and outright made clear by the writer.

The Spriggans were clearly outlined as being above every enemy that had come b4 them, arguing that we shouldn't scale them above a character that has already been stated to be weaker than they are just feels ludicrous to me.
 
Ask me if I care, because I can't honestly imagine what I am seeing in that chapter of the manga and that's what I am going off, because that's literally what this thread is about. If the scaling comes from the Spriggan that's cool, so then why even decide to use Ikusa at all? What was different before?
 
@David

Then why did Natsu needed "Igneel's help?" He still had used and attack from FDKM which was able to oneshot Ikusa yet his own power only made it stagger. Natsu pretty much used FDKM or somehow in a way that he used Igneels power. Still Base Natsu not even be able to damage it still tells that he shouldn't scale. Yes when not having FDKM (Natsu said it was Blaze Dragon King Mode when henone shotted Jacob) means he it's a lot weaker then when having the power of a dragon.

I also think that FT members in their Base form (exception of Gildarts and up) shouldn't scale to Spriggan but their transformation, power ups, or super techniques should since Laxus lightning could do anything to Wahl but his Red Lighting could, we already know about Erza, Shelia beat Dimaria thanks to 3rd Origin, and Natsu using BDKM to beat Jacob in one shot while this also proves that they can't be on their lvl in base form since even Erza needed help + Lucy went against Brandish by herself yet the latter was holding back a lot and even said that she could had killed Lucy in one hit
 
@Blackejan

Are you serious? you're using the same arguments you have always used, did you just copy and paste from your comments before, I've heard everything you have said in this thread before, and I still disagree with all of it, and your scaling was never accepted, when Natsu says he's using "Igneel's Help" he really just means that he has Fire Dragon King Spells, he's essentially saying his techniques are a homage to Igneel, he's not using Igneel's power, only when he has the tatoo and his fire is red as shown in the anime, also Blaze Dragon King Mode isn't real, the canon translations say Fire Dragon King Mode, so he's using the same form and strength that he used against Ikusa-Tsunagi, Base Natsu didn't flinch or worry at all for Ikusa-Tsunagi, but was impressed and a little worried about the Spriggans, this is not even an argument anymore of whether Base Natsu scales

I can't believe I have to argue the same things against you again when we already decided this stuff a while ago, you're just saying the exact same stuff because of a Divine Fallacy
 
Are you serious? Did u seriously try to ignore the things that's been in the manga the I'm basically telling u what has happen in it? It ain't hard to know that Natsu doesn't have Igneels power after Zeref yet u still try to say that he does even though it's been known that it's gone? It not hard to figure it out ya know like it does get a bit annoying that u ignore it when it was already said that it's weaker now then before. Are u serious tryna argue with me about a name? I'm just using the different so people know what I'm talking about so who cares about it dude. Why r u trying to scale base forms to Ikusa when even Natsu couldn't do jack crap with his own power like it's plain sight in the manga. Peoples base forms shouldn't scale to Spriggans also but u already know why cause I have it typed up but u really wanna ignore all that? everything that happened in the manga u truly believe that their base form scale but really it's the power ups that were able to defeat them?

EDIT: I already said that just cause they didn't falter towards the Ikusa, that doesn't mean that they aren't stronger in base form to it. This also proves since Natsu was scared of her and was actually about to use FDKM
 
@Blackejan I can't even argue against you, it's like you never even re-read the manga, Natsu never used Igneel's Power until he fought Zeref, and the manga never said Fire Dragon King Mode got weaker, that's just the Fairy Tail wiki saying that when they thought Igneel's Power and Fire Dragon King Mode were the same thing and even then, look up Fire Dragon King Mode on the Fairy Tail wiki now, it doesn't say the form got weaker, Fire Dragon King Mode is different from Igneel's Power, this conversation is going nowhere when you start throwing out false info
 
@Demon

I can tell U didn't read a single thing l. I already explain that Natsu doesn't have Igneels Power after Zeref so congrats u didn't read anything I've said. FDKM + Igneels Power is what got Natsu to fight Zeref so what makes u think FDKM (without Igneels Power) is gonna have the same strength? It's common sense to know that and EVERYONE should know that like goodness it's not hard to grasp. That's like saying SSJ transformation have the exact same multiplier even though there's stronger ver. of it like r u serious?
 
@Blackejan

At what point did I say that Igneel's Power is equal to Fire Dragon King Mode, never once said that, I'm saying the form he used against Jacob is equal or stronger to when he one-shot Ikusa-Tsunagi
 
EXACTLY! yur basically saying the one that Natsu used vs Jacob (one without Igneel) is supposedly stronger or equal to the one that was using Igneels Power? u have got to be kidding me. How is the same technique as strong as another that doesn't have the same power as the last?
 
@Blackejan, you're just trying to confuse things at this point.

The scaling is very simple. Natsu's FDK attacks = FDKM mode (So his Demolition Fist against Jacob and Ikusatsunagi are the same)

Meanwhile, his FDKM + Igneel's Power (the one with the red flames) is on Zeref's level and far above his normal FDKM. He used this form only once against Zeref.

As for the scaling, Spriggans were said to be > any other opponent in the series, so they are automatically > Ikusatsunagi.

Not to mention that Jacob actually survived Natsu's FDK Fist, while Ikusatsunagi was blown to pieces, further proving that Spriggans > Ikusatsunagi.

Not such a complicated concept really.
 
^Yeah, that, I have no idea how Backejan thought I said Igneel's Power = Fire Dragon King Mode
 
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