The Marvels [Spoilers] Upgrade

[Revan_Laha]

Simply heating the core won’t work, as it would not increase the mass and pressure of the star, which are essential for sustaining fusion. You have to increase the internal energy of the core entirely, which is the sum of the kinetic energy and the potential energy of the particles in the core.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Assuming Hala's star was once like the sun, but its fusion processes stopped and it cooled to the point that it's temperature was similar to a red dwarf star, and that it retains a similar mass to the sun.

Using the stats from the sun:

The density of it's core: 150 g/cm3
The radius of its core:: 139,000 km

We can infer the Volume of the core with a simple: (4/3)(pi)(r^3) where r is the radius of the core: 11,249,494,560,988,222,569,715,741m^3

With that we can infer the mass of the core with the formula density*volume to give us a mass of: 1.6874241841482*10^30 kilograms

Now the formula for change in heat: Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Hydrogen gas (which the sun is 92% made of): 14,300

(1.6874241841482*10^30kg)(14300)(12,000,000)

We get:

289561989999831120000000000000000000000000J
or
6.920697657739828*10^31 Tons of TNT

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Simply heating the core won’t work, as it would not increase the mass and pressure of the star, which are essential for sustaining fusion. You have to increase the internal energy of the core entirely, which is the sum of the kinetic energy and the potential energy of the particles in the core.

Raising the temperature and increasing the kinetic energy are one in the same.

 

[Qawsedf234]

With that we can infer the mass of the core with the formula density*volume to give us a mass of: 1.6874241841482*10^30 kilograms

You got your density off. You're using the center core density for the entire core.

The sun's total weight is only 2e+30 kilograms while the core is only 20% of that mass.

At 19% of the solar radius, near the edge of the core, temperatures are about 10 million kelvins and fusion power density is 6.9 W/m3, which is about 2.5% of the maximum value at the solar center. The density here is about 40 g/cm3, or about 27% of that at the center. Some 91% of the solar energy is produced within this radius. Within 24% of the radius (the outer "core" by some definitions), 99% of the Sun's power is produced. Beyond 30% of the solar radius, where temperature is 7 million K and density has fallen to 10 g/cm3 the rate of fusion is almost nil.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Assuming Hala's star was once like the sun, but its fusion processes stopped and it cooled to the point that it's temperature was similar to a red dwarf star, and that it retains a similar mass to the sun.

Using the stats from the sun:

The density of it's core: 150 g/cm3
The radius of its core:: 139,000 km

We can infer the Volume of the core with a simple: (4/3)(pi)(r^3) where r is the radius of the core: 11,249,494,560,988,222,569,715,741m^3

With that we can infer the mass of the core with the formula density*volume to give us a mass of: 1.6874241841482*10^30 kilograms

Now the formula for change in heat: Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Hydrogen gas (which the sun is 92% made of): 14,300

(1.6874241841482*10^30kg)(14300)(12,000,000)

We get:

289561989999831120000000000000000000000000J
or
6.920697657739828*10^31 Tons of TNT

Mine is 3.06 × 10²⁷ megatons of TNT. Yours is 6.92 x 10^25 megatons of TNT. Close, give or take a few zeroes.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

You got your density off. You're using the center core density for the entire core.

The sun's total weight is only 2e+30 kilograms while the core is only 20% of that mass.

Can you post a source for the 20%, I am seeing 34% on wiki but they don't have an exact source so I'll like to use a verified one in stead.

But using your 20% of sun's mass, that would give us 3.97694*10^29 kg for the core's mass:

Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Hydrogen gas (which the sun is 92% made of): 14,300

(3.97694*10^29)(14300)(12,000,000)

We get:

68244290400000000000000000000000000000000J

or

1.6310776864244925e+31 Tons of TNT

 

[Revan_Laha]

Raising the temperature and increasing the kinetic energy are one in the same.

I calculated the potential energy too. So the total internal energy.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can you post a source for the 20%, I am seeing 34% on wiki but they don't have an exact source so I'll like to use a verified one in stead.

From the look it's basically where you cut off as to what counts as the core. Since it can range from 10% to 50% of the mass depending on how far you consider the core (with the high end being when it's still doing fusion and the low end just being really dense).

So 20% may just be an average.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I calculated the potential energy too. So the total internal energy.

I am not sure if we can claim Carol increased the potential energy within the core without explaining how that's possibly by just releasing energy.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Can you post a source for the 20%, I am seeing 34% on wiki but they don't have an exact source so I'll like to use a verified one in stead.

But using your 20% of sun's mass, that would give us 3.97694*10^29 kg for the core's mass:

Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Hydrogen gas (which the sun is 92% made of): 14,300

(3.97694*10^29)(14300)(12,000,000)

We get:

68244290400000000000000000000000000000000J

or

1.6310776864244925e+31 Tons of TNT

Can we use the specific heat of plasma inside of Sun's core instead, which is 12.5 joules per Kelvin per mole.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Use the formula Cv=R/Y-1. For a monoatomic gas, such as hydrogen or helium, γ=5/3. For a diatomic gas, such as molecular hydrogen, γ=7/5. For a mixture of gases, γ can be calculated as a weighted average of the individual γ values.
The plasma in the Sun’s core is mainly composed of hydrogen and helium, with traces of heavier elements. the composition of the solar plasma drops from 68 to 70% hydrogen by mass at the outer core, to 34% hydrogen at the core/Sun center.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Can we use the specific heat of plasma inside of Sun's core instead, which is 12.5 joules per Kelvin per mole.

3767 joules of heat to raise the temperature of one kilogram of plasma by one degree, while keeping the volume constant.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

3767 joules of heat to raise the temperature of one kilogram of plasma by one degree, while keeping the volume constant.

I will use this but can you please post the calculation and the sources you used to get this specific number.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Sun's plasma at it's core: 3767

(3.97694*10^29)(3767)(12,000,000)

We get:

17977359576000000000000000000000000000000J

or

4.296692059273471*10^30 Tons of TNT

 

[Revan_Laha]

I will use this but can you please post the calculation and the sources you used to get this specific number.

This is, common BSC level stuff. The formula goes by Cv=R/Y-1. For a monoatomic gas, such as hydrogen or helium, γ=5/3. For a diatomic gas, such as molecular hydrogen, γ=7/5. For a mixture of gases, γ can be calculated as a weighted average of the individual γ values.
The plasma in the Sun’s core is mainly composed of hydrogen and helium, with traces of heavier elements. the composition of the solar plasma drops from 68 to 70% hydrogen by mass at the outer core, to 34% hydrogen at the core/Sun center.

Solar core - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So doing the math Y=(0.34*7/5+0.66*3/2)/1=1.59. Plug in the earlier formula you get Cv=12.5 J/mol/K.
Assuming that the hydrogen is mostly in molecular form, and the helium is in atomic form, we can estimate the average molar mass of the plasma as:
M=0.34×2+0.66×4≈3.32 g mol−1
Using this value, we can convert the specific heat from moles to kilograms by dividing it by the molar mass and multiplying it by 1000, voila, 3767 J/kg/K

 

[Revan_Laha]

Assuming Hala's star was once like the sun, but its fusion processes stopped and it cooled to the point that it's temperature was similar to a red dwarf star, and that it retains a similar mass to the sun.

Using the stats from the sun:

The density of it's core: 150 g/cm3
The radius of its core:: 139,000 km

We can infer the Volume of the core with a simple: (4/3)(pi)(r^3) where r is the radius of the core: 11,249,494,560,988,222,569,715,741m^3

With that we can infer the mass of the core with the formula density*volume to give us a mass of: 1.6874241841482*10^30 kilograms

Now the formula for change in heat: Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Hydrogen gas (which the sun is 92% made of): 14,300

(1.6874241841482*10^30kg)(14300)(12,000,000)

We get:

289561989999831120000000000000000000000000J
or
6.920697657739828*10^31 Tons of TNT

Use 6.6*10^29 kg instead. If you take the radius of the Sun as 6.957*10^8 m and the radius of the core as 20%, that's what you get. Core density= 150,000 kg/m3.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Q = m c Δ T

Where Q is energy, m is mass, c is specific heat point, Δ T is the change in temperature.

If we use the red dwarf's core temperature of 3 million kelvins, and the sun's core temperature of 15 million kelvins, that gives us a temp difference of 12 million kelvins.

Using the specific heat point of Sun's plasma at it's core: 3767

(3.97694*10^29)(3767)(12,000,000)

We get:

17977359576000000000000000000000000000000J

or

4.296692059273471*10^30 Tons of TNT

10^31. You missed a zero.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Use 6.6*10^29 kg instead. If you take the radius of the Sun as 6.957*10^8 m and the radius of the core as 20%, that's what you get. Core density= 150,000 kg/m3.

This would slightly raise the value to 7.13*10^31 tons.

 

[Veronica]

This would slightly raise the value to 7.13*10^31 tons.

I barely understand it so what's the result in power?

 

[Revan_Laha]

I barely understand it so what's the result in power?

Low 4-C. Small star level.

 

[Veronica]

Low 4-C. Small star level.

Okay, we still need staff if its a correct interpretation of what happened

 

[Revan_Laha]

New blog

The Marvels: Captain Marvel reignites Hala's Sun

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Okay! Let’s see if this goes?

 

[Revan_Laha]

Okay! Let’s see if this goes?

You better edit your post if it gets accepted. Replace yours with mine

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Done.

 

[Veronica]

Bump

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

BUMP!

 

[Dalesean027]

BUMP!

Waiting on other CGMs eval of the calc atm so sorry for the wait

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

That's fine!

 

[Veronica]

Bump

 

[Dinobot1996]

I'm a little surprised that the calculation still hasn't received further evaluation yet.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I'm a little surprised that the calculation still hasn't received further evaluation yet.

I'm suprised it got 1 evaluation so soon, I had a calc for Quake for like 3 months no evaluation and can't even get Wiccan profile to go through in CRT and it's almost 1 month old

 

[Veronica]

Bumpy bump :0

 

[Dalesean027]

New blog

The Marvels: Captain Marvel reignites Hala's Sun

vsbattles.fandom.com

@Therefir @DMUA Can you please take a look here when you have the time

 

[DMUA]

I cannot articulate to you by any earthly means how sharply my interest in the MCU dropped after Endgame

But I will do so anyways

 

[Dalesean027]

I cannot articulate to you by any earthly means how sharply my interest in the MCU dropped after Endgame

But I will do so anyways

Yeah sorry only opted to ping the two of you here since Ant did so, thanks for your assistance

 

[Dinobot1996]

Well, now that the calc has the extra approval, it looks like some more progress can finally be made.

 

[KLOL506]

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Migue79 Can you please check if the calc is correct?

 

[Lonkitt]

The main issue is that the core element of the calc is incorrect

CM only needed to provide enough energy to jump star the Sun's core, after which the core would fix itself.

So heating up the entire structure is not needed. CM just needed to provide >3.8e+26 Joules to accomplish the feat.

If the calc isn’t even correct, I’m gonna have to disagree right away

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

If the calc isn’t even correct, I’m gonna have to disagree right away

So if the calc is correct how long is gonna take you to disagree?