The Marvels [Spoilers] Upgrade

[Dalesean027]

AS I said earlier im not gonna argue anymore

Not even gonna deal with you legit the brainrot from you is gonna get me to RvR cause you're actually not all there it seems

Ah, sorry I meant a new key for her, one for the new movie

All feats from her from this movie would stop scaling if that was the case, my first reaction when I saw the current profiles (With characters like Thor and Thanos scaling to Danvers' High 6-A feat of going through a Star) was to question myself why her new feats aren't for a new, separated key, sometimes I believe to be more accurate to do

I understand that hence my question, you would need a reason for a new key other than her just having a higher tier. Is she stated to be stronger or amped in any ways throughout this movie than when she was when she appeared in Endgame

 

[ThanatosX]

I already said this previously, but I heavily disagree with the idea of creating a new key for her.
First of all, her being stronger than she was in Endgame is just an assumption. There is no mention of her being stronger, no statement of her training, no training montage like with Thor L&T, no power up between the movies, no power up in the movie, nothing. So, saying that she suddenly got millions of times stronger is just pure speculation.
Second, even assuming she did train, that would hardly explain a boost in power of millions of times. She had five years between the beginning of Endgame and the end of Endgame to become stronger, in a period in which she had much more reasons to become stronger, yet she couldn't grow in power enough to one-shot Thanos. And now suddenly she becomes millions of times stronger than Thanos in a single year (or maybe two, I don't remember when the Marvles takes place, but the logic is the same). It would be non-sense to assume such a thing.
There are two option, in my opinion:
- The calc is correct and valid, everyone that is currently High 6-A becomes Low 4-C.
-The calc is an outlier, and the High 6-A calc of the energy of the Sun per second is used instead, leaving everything unchanged.
I am neutral on which option is the better one, but for sure I heavily oppose the idea of a new key for Captain Marvel. That would be reliant on pure speculation and headcanon, until further notice.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Second, even assuming she did train, that would hardly explain a boost in power of millions of times.

Actually this doesn't work. Training by any amount is enough to justify a new key. We've had people like Frieza jump from 4-B to Tier 2 via training, so Marvel being boosted isn't wild.

For the thread I'm not sure really. We either give Captain Marvel a new key (and downgrade everyone else), dismiss the showing as an outlier (keep it as is) or say that Tier 4 is her peak power that no one scales to since her aura was bigger than ever before.

 

[Dalesean027]

-The calc is an outlier, and the High 6-A calc of the energy of the Sun per second is used instead, leaving everything unchanged.

Its went over in the first page of the crt that this isn't a solution...

Its either outlier or we gotta find some more reasonings but we also can't just arbitrarily make it a new key without proper justification as such, I also feel like this is too narratively central to the whole Marvel's plot and the statements and such given there that just saying outlier and calling it a day would also be the wrong move

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Do characters talk about how this feat is particularly impressive for Carol or is it just kinda treated like a thing she’s always been able to do.

Cause it’s either:

• She can vary up to Tier 4 with her Aura thing
• She got a lot stronger in a few years
• Everyone is Tier 4

Outlier isn’t logical to claim without sufficient reasoning since from what I can tell the plot doesn’t function if she doesn’t do this.

Actually this doesn't work. Training by any amount is enough to justify a new key. We've had people like Frieza jump from 4-B to Tier 2 via training, so Marvel being boosted isn't wild.

For the thread I'm not sure really. We either give Captain Marvel a new key (and downgrade everyone else), dismiss the showing as an outlier (keep it as is) or say that Tier 4 is her peak power that no one scales to since her aura was bigger than ever before.

That’s cause Frieza and others in this predicament have pre-existing things that can explain such power jump. Does Carol usually grow millions of times stronger in a few years from training? Or did she even train at all?

 

[Dalesean027]

Do characters talk about how this feat is particularly impressive for Carol or is it just kinda treated like a thing she’s always been able to do.

That's the thing she says she doesn't know if she can actually do it and then just casually does it, she's not dying or super straining herself or anything

 

[Kingofwolves999]

That's the thing she says she doesn't know if she can actually do it and then just casually does it, she's not dying or super straining herself or anything

Well that’s weirdly contradictory.

I mean, I guess that means she didn’t know if she had the power to do this, but it was actually something she was capable of? Maybe it’s a matter of it being a star so size?

That implies that she has always been this strong but just never really used it or had a reason to try this hard. Which either makes Thanos Tier 4 or her a major loser for not going all out on him.

So I can see a “Varies up to” being ok since… well she doesn’t typically use this level of power even when fighting threats since she’s saying she doesn’t know if it’s something she’s capable of.

 

[Dalesean027]

Well that’s weirdly contradictory.

I mean, I guess that means she didn’t know if she had the power to do this, but it was actually something she was capable of? Maybe it’s a matter of it being a star so size?

That implies that she has always been this strong but just never really used it or had a reason to try this hard. Which either makes Thanos Tier 4 or her a major loser for not going all out on him.

So I can see a “Varies up to” being ok since… well she doesn’t typically use this level of power even when fighting threats since she’s saying she doesn’t know if it’s something she’s capable of.

Doesn't have sound but here's the clip ya see she's just chilling in space after she does it

Captain Marvel may be officially the strongest MCU high tier (SPOILERS) - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine

Apparently she restarts nuclear fusion in the sun.My bad if this was already made. Just wanted to know peoples thoughts.

comicvine.gamespot.com

 

[Dalesean027]

Maybe it’s a matter of it being a star so size?

Calc uses a red dwarf star for the size so its not even assuming a size equivalent of our sun so even then its still weird if we think its the size of the star she was unsure about

I mean, I guess that means she didn’t know if she had the power to do this, but it was actually something she was capable of? Maybe it’s a matter of it being a star so size?

That implies that she has always been this strong but just never really used it or had a reason to try this hard. Which either makes Thanos Tier 4 or her a major loser for not going all out on him.

Ig we can maybe say she never really pushed herself to do something of this scale but it'd still be weird considering she was actively trying her hardest to stop thanos

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well that’s weirdly contradictory.

I mean, I guess that means she didn’t know if she had the power to do this, but it was actually something she was capable of? Maybe it’s a matter of it being a star so size?

That implies that she has always been this strong but just never really used it or had a reason to try this hard. Which either makes Thanos Tier 4 or her a major loser for not going all out on him.

So I can see a “Varies up to” being ok since… well she doesn’t typically use this level of power even when fighting threats since she’s saying she doesn’t know if it’s something she’s capable of.

AS I see it there are many resons why it might not scale mostly assumptions like:

• This one is based on comics, Kree have a reactive evolution that is basically the source of their powers, the more they fight the more powerful they get, as far as I can tell fighting oponents who are as strong or stronger than her would allow her evolve faster, after facing Thanos and Dar benn she might have become stronger.
• Based on What if... She was holding back before not to destroy earth or any of the "avengers", What if shown us that she was holding back against Thor so not to hurt anyone although yes its based on an alterantive reality so again assumptions
• Based on the Marvels. Another one she was holding back because of what happened in Hala, she went too far and caused a lot of problems to Hala which is part of the plot since she regretted it so much that she avoided Monica for it, by the end of the Marvels that was sorted in a talk with Monica which might have made her stop holdind back of fear so much

I think the best option is she was not using her full power before, the movie very clearly shows her aura to be much bigger than anything she ever shown before, so for me I think the best way is scale to no one and assume her peak at 4-C

 

[Dalesean027]

This one is based on comics, Kree have a reactive evolution that is basically the source of their powers, the more they fight the more powerful they get, as far as I can tell fighting oponents who are as strong or stronger than her would allow her evolve faster after facing Thanos and Dar benn she might have become stronger.

Isn't relevant here because its the comics not the MCU

Based on What if... She was holding back before not to destroy earth or any of the "avengers", What if shown us that she was holding back against Thor so not to hurt anyone although yes its based on an alterantive reality so again assumptions

The best feats in that episode were 6-B nothing outside of the realm of what we've seen from the verse already m however we also have a calc for her pushing Ultron in Xandar's core in what if that's low 5-B so maybe I see your point there a little

4-C

Low 4-C

Still though as dumb as it sounds you'd have to say she was holding back against thanos...if we assume its something she was actively doing and not just another mental block, which is definitely crazy but yeah

 

[Qawsedf234]

Does Carol usually grow millions of times stronger in a few years from training? Or did she even train at all?

We treated Thor as jumping from Tier 6 to 5/4 by training and Iron Man's gear has made similar jumps.

I'm not saying she did train without evidence, but training would be enough for a new key.

Imo the best option is like "Varies up to Lowb4-C" or "High 6-A when holding back, Low 4-C when using her full power" and we just don't scale anyone to her full power.

Though if we treat the Sun feat as her peak everyone still needs to be downgraded as she was going all out for the High 6-A showing.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Doesn't have sound but here's the clip ya see she's just chilling in space after she does it

Captain Marvel may be officially the strongest MCU high tier (SPOILERS) - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine

Apparently she restarts nuclear fusion in the sun.My bad if this was already made. Just wanted to know peoples thoughts.

comicvine.gamespot.com

That looks weird af but alright, never doubted the feats validity or how casual she can be when doing it.

I mean, if it’s any consolation, it seems to be a result of her charging straight into it and glowing with enough power that she’s visible next to the star, that’s already more power than she’s ever shown before.

Calc uses a red dwarf star for the size so its not even assuming a size equivalent of our sun so even then its still weird if we think its the size of the star she was unsure about

Ig we can maybe say she never really pushed herself to do something of this scale but it'd still be weird considering she was actively trying her hardest to stop thanos

I mean, red dwarfs are still bigger than Earth itself, so for her power to be visible at all next to it means she’s outputting insane amounts compared to any prior showings. It could be a case of using this much power would destroy the earth so she never risked using it all and stuck with an amount that wouldn’t vaporize the entire battlefield?

 

[Dalesean027]

We treated Thor as jumping from Tier 6 to 5/4 by training and Iron Man's gear has made similar jumps.

I'm not saying she did train without evidence, but training would be enough for a new key.

Imo the best option is like "Varies up to Lowb4-C" or "High 6-A when holding back, Low 4-C when using her full power" and we just don't scale anyone to her full power.

Though if we treat the Sun feat as her peak everyone still needs to be downgraded as she was going all out for the High 6-A showing.

Yup took the words out of my mouth, everyone would need to be back at High 6-B if they aren't scaling to captain marvel at all

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Isn't relevant here because its the comics not the MCU

As I said it's an assumption that Kree biology works the same in Comics and MCU I know it's bit far fetched but I think it's an option

The best feats in that episode were 6-B nothing outside of the realm of what we've seen from the verse already m however we also have a calc for her pushing Ultron in Xandar's core in what if that's low 5-B so maybe I see your point there a little

Im throwing assumptions here.

Low 4-C

Still though as dumb as it sounds you'd have to say she was holding back against thanos...if we assume its something she was actively doing and not just another mental block

Well if it's based on her not wanting to destroy earth or being afraid of her own power it's kinda of a mental block imposed on herself

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Yup took the words out of my mouth, everyone would need to be back at High 6-B if they aren't scaling to captain marvel at all

If there is any other scale chain to keep them at that level sure.

 

[Dalesean027]

I mean, red dwarfs are still bigger than Earth itself, so for her power to be visible at all next to it means she’s outputting insane amounts compared to any prior showings. It could be a case of using this much power would destroy the earth so she never risked using it all and stuck with an amount that wouldn’t vaporize the entire battlefield?

Well if it's based on her not wanting to destroy earth or being afraid of her own power it's kinda of a mental block imposed on herself

Thats fair I think then, mental blocks are kinda her thing in the MCU already and do determine major jumps in power so like its not like its completely unfounded, I could buy it

 

[Dinobot1996]

At the very least, the argument of Captain Marvel holding back against Thanos to avoid potential destruction seems trickier to apply to when she attacked him on the Garden planet, considering that nobody else lived there (which she checked herself), and that everyone at that point assumed that Thanos still had a full set of Infinity Stones in his Gauntlet.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

I tried to make an blog for replacing the High 6A with the Low 4-C, but it doesn't make sense to me. It would mess up the scaling to retroactively scale everyone to a new movie feat, i think a new key is best.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

At the very least, the argument of Captain Marvel holding back against Thanos to avoid potential destruction seems trickier to apply to when she attacked him on the Garden planet, considering that nobody else lived there (which she checked herself), and that everyone at that point assumed that Thanos still had a full set of Infinity Stones in his Gauntlet.

I mean if she did what she did here, she would have killed all the Avengers unless they just let her handle him solo and stayed off the planet entirely. Them being ON THE PLANET would be death if she rammed into Thanos with enough heat to ignite a Star and at a size that can be measured in solar units.

 

[ThanatosX]

Actually this doesn't work. Training by any amount is enough to justify a new key. We've had people like Frieza jump from 4-B to Tier 2 via training, so Marvel being boosted isn't wild.

I do agree with that, but I probably expressed myself in a wrong way. My point is mainly that it would be inconsistent with everything else shown to us. She had 5 years between the beginning of Endgame and the end of Endgame, yet she didn't have this much of a boost despite the fact that in that period she had much more reasons to train. To assume that in one year of supposed training she manage to have a boost in power superior to anything she was able to obtain in 5 years is just speculation, and I don't agree with that.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I do agree with that, but I probably express myself in a wrong way. My point is mainly that it would be inconsistent with everything else shown to us. She had 5 years between the beginning of Endgame and the end of Endgame, yet she didn't have this much of a boost despite the fact that in that period she had much more reasons to train. To assume that in one year of supposed training she manage to have a boost in power superior to anything she was able to obtain in 5 years is just speculation, and I don't agree with that.

That doesnt really matter I can give you an example Naruto took over a month to learn the rasengan andjust a few days to learn Rasenshuriken a technique much harder.
Trainning does not need to be linear to power level. It's very normal for characters to evolve slower at the start and then start a exponencial growth at some point

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

We can try to argue or find in universe reasons for why she got stronger, but the reason is meta, and simply be cause she got a better feat in a new movie.

 

[ThanatosX]

I mean if she did what she did here, she would have killed all the Avengers unless they just let her handle him solo and stayed off the planet entirely. Them being ON THE PLANET would be death if she rammed into Thanos with enough heat to ignite a Star and at a size that can be measured in solar units.

Actually, Carol was the first to attack him and everyone else appeared later. If she could kill him with a single attack, than she would have done so.
And in general this whole argument of her not going all out in a situation in which the entire Universe was at risk is a stretch to me, honestly. If we want to assume that was true, nothing stopped her from just simply grabbing Thanos, flying in space and going all out there.

That doesnt really matter I can give you an example Naruto took over a month to learn the rasengan andjust a few days to learn Rasenshuriken a technique much harder.
Trainning does not need to be linear to power level. It's very normal for characters to evolve slower at the start and then start a exponencial growth at some point

That's an extremely different things. I know what you are talking about since I watched Naruto up until the Pain fight when it stopped being good, the Rasengan and the Rasenshuriken are techniques. It's not a power up or anything, it's just how fast a technique was learned, nothing more.
And using other verse as example is also a wrong equivalence to me, considering each verse works differently. For example, in One Piece the characters becomes stronger overtime regardless of the fact they train or not. That's just how it works there, and how the verse established power levels for some reasons.
The MCU never established anything like that. The only time we got an esponential power up through training was with Thor, which however is extremely different since it was the first time he trained while "awakened" and there were other factors at play. No one else ever become millions of time stronger while training in a year despite having five years in which they logically could have became far stronger.
But I don't have a lot of time to discuss this, so whatever. I wont comment further.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

We can try to argue or find in universe reasons for why she got stronger, but the reason is meta, and simply be cause she got a better feat in a new movie.

I was not trying to go that way but yeah.

Actually, Carol was the first to attack him and everyone else appeared later. If she could kill him with a single attack, than she would have done so.
And in general this whole argument of her not going all out in a situation in which the entire Universe was at risk is a stretch to me, honestly. If we want to assume that was true, nothing stopped her from just simply grabbing Thanos, flying in space and going all out there.


That's an extremely different things. I know what you are talking about since I watched Naruto up until the Pain fight when it stopped being good, the Rasengan and the Rasenshuriken are techniques. It's not a power up or anything, it's just how fast a technique was learned, nothing more.

You kidding? Rasenshuriken gave a huge power level boost, it is a matter of just learning how to use their power better without necessarily having an outer power boost.

And using other verse as example is also a wrong equivalence to me, considering each verse works differently. For example, in One Piece the characters becomes stronger overtime regardless of the fact they train or not. That's just how it works there, and how the verse established power levels for some reasons.

And still he went from not holding a single hit from Kaidou to fight has equals just in the time that took him to understand how advanced conqueror haki works while he fought dozens of enemies pre time skip and barely got any boost. Again it's not necessarily a power boost just better understanding or control over their own power is constantly shown to boost their power even more than years of trainning

The MCU never established anything like that. The only time we got an esponential power up through training was with Thor, which however is extremely different since it was the first time he trained while "awakened" and there were other factors at play. No one else ever become millions of time stronger while training in a year despite having five years in which they logically could have became far stronger.

Awakening of Thor was nothing more than him understanding that his power doesnt come from his hammer. really? Because Doctor Strange had a very exponencial growth between his solo movie and Thor Ragnarok only because he started to read all the books there.
Like I said it's not linear

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Actually, Carol was the first to attack him and everyone else appeared later. If she could kill him with a single attack, than she would have done so.
And in general this whole argument of her not going all out in a situation in which the entire Universe was at risk is a stretch to me, honestly. If we want to assume that was true, nothing stopped her from just simply grabbing Thanos, flying in space and going all out there.

She was also following a plan for the avengers, and she needed the stones and the gaunlet to get everyone back, also if she used Star level power not even if they were in the planet orbit would the avengers survive

 

[Deagonx]

Was it ever actually suggested in the source material that Captain Marvel was holding back?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Was it ever actually suggested in the source material that Captain Marvel was holding back?

IF you count for her aura and the fact that she never used that kind of power before yes after all those were the reasons we consider Captain Marvel stronger for absorbing the infinity gaunlet instead of being her own power.

 

[Deagonx]

IF you count for her aura and the fact that she never used that kind of power before yes after all those were the reasons we consider Captain Marvel stronger for absorbing the infinity gaunlet instead of being her own power.

That's not what I mean. I'm asking if the source material itself indicated this or if this is a theory we're creating ourselves, but from your answer it's the latter.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Was it ever actually suggested in the source material that Captain Marvel was holding back?

No. The only indication is that her aura was notably bigger here than ever before, but there's no source saying she holds back other than What If.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

That's not what I mean. I'm asking if the source material itself indicated this or if this is a theory we're creating ourselves, but from your answer it's the latter.

Im assuming by theory that it's something that can't be used that's why i mentioned how her having absorbed the infinity gaunlet is not official and yet it was accepted.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

There’s nothing saying she’s holding back in earlier movies but she states that performing this feat isn’t something she knows she can do. That already implies that the level of power required for what is being asked is higher than what she has shown prior or has done.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

There’s nothing saying she’s holding back in earlier movies but she states that performing this feat isn’t something she knows she can do. That already implies that the level of power required for what is being asked is higher than what she has shown prior or has done.

I can confirm this!

 

[Revan_Laha]

Captain Marvel had one of the Bangles in the end. Does that help?

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Captain Marvel had one of the Bangles in the end. Does that help?

She didn’t have it for the feat if I remember

 

[FentyBeauty]

She didn’t have it for the feat if I remember

yeah the feat happened after monica got trapped in another universe, which before that was when she handed kamala the last bangle

 

[Veronica]

Bump

 

[Dalesean027]

Bump

Don't and I mean do not bump if it hasn't been 24 hours let alone 12 hours at least

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I already said this previously, but I heavily disagree with the idea of creating a new key for her.
First of all, her being stronger than she was in Endgame is just an assumption. There is no mention of her being stronger, no statement of her training, no training montage like with Thor L&T, no power up between the movies, no power up in the movie, nothing. So, saying that she suddenly got millions of times stronger is just pure speculation.
Second, even assuming she did train, that would hardly explain a boost in power of millions of times. She had five years between the beginning of Endgame and the end of Endgame to become stronger, in a period in which she had much more reasons to become stronger, yet she couldn't grow in power enough to one-shot Thanos. And now suddenly she becomes millions of times stronger than Thanos in a single year (or maybe two, I don't remember when the Marvles takes place, but the logic is the same). It would be non-sense to assume such a thing.
There are two option, in my opinion:
- The calc is correct and valid, everyone that is currently High 6-A becomes Low 4-C.
-The calc is an outlier, and the High 6-A calc of the energy of the Sun per second is used instead, leaving everything unchanged.
I am neutral on which option is the better one, but for sure I heavily oppose the idea of a new key for Captain Marvel. That would be reliant on pure speculation and headcanon, until further notice.

I agree with ThanatosX

 

[Dalesean027]

Bump