The Last Dragonborn vs. Beerus

[Warren_Valion]

@Waria

The thing is, since the Dovahkiin is a stand-in for the player, you can't say that he will be wearing a specific armor, or wielding a specific weapon because there's evidence of him doing that, in character.

Yes, the Dovahkiin has a hundred different armors and a hundred different weapons that stomp Beerus into the ground, but the thing is, he doesn't resist Beerus's Hakai.

And since he doesn't have a leading move or a specific armor set that bestows him some powers, we don't know if he will use his hax abilities or not initially.

So this ends up being an inconclusive because either Beerus Hakais, or the Dovahkiin haxs.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There was a whole crt about how the OP has to estabilish what armor, wapons and such is being used for characters like dovah.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

Snip

Maybe the OP should specify it? If not, i guess it's inconclusive.

And what reason to believe that Beerus would start with a Hakai to begin with? It's not like he know what Dovahkiin is capable of, while the Dovahkiin haxxed him just by virtually doing anything.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

There was a whole crt about how the OP has to estabilish what armor, wapons and such is being used for characters like dovah.

Can you give me the link?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I should probably mention this.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Can you give me the link?

I'll try to find it, sure.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If Beerus isn't in a spar, then he'll mostly go for the Hakai. Especially if he considers the Dovahkiin a threat.

And SBA means that characters are with a mindset of killing each other, so it is very likely he will go for the Hakai.

 

[Warren_Valion]

There was a whole crt about how the OP has to estabilish what armor, wapons and such is being used for characters like dovah.

Is there?

Well then, depending on what the OP puts the Dovahkiin in and what he gives him, this is either a stomp or inconclusive for reasons above.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2214700, just F3 my name.


And no, they are not in the mindset to kill by sba. They are just in their normal fighting mindset, even if it entails killing yourself or raping the enemy.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The mindset is to kill or incapacitate, meaning it isn't a spar, but a real fight.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The mindset is to kill or incapacitate, meaning it isn't a spar, but a real fight.

No, it is not. The mindset is what they would have in a situation like this. SBA does not make someone more inclined to kill, it merely removes the ethical reasons for which one wouldn't.

A pacificst will still try to incap, thunder will still kill himself and etc.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I'm not saying that.

I'm saying the mindset makes them willing to kill or incapacitate.

That they would take the fight as a fight, and not a spar.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not unless they would normally do so, no.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2214700, just F3 my name.

Thanks. And i believe we should ask the OP what kind of equipment the Dovahkiin used.

 

[KongKing23]

Matthew said Dovahkiin walks all paths as an impossipoint; thus, the hero can equip all gears at once with Time being irrelevant. Matthew means everything you can do is canon and possible, including one punching Alduin and Miraak while wearing nothing.

It is possible for Dovahkiin wielding Spellbreaker and Mehrunes Razor or some enchanted gears that still project his 2-C above baseline power. Warren's argument is flawed as ****!

Hakai demonstrated to work on a person experienced a linear timeline, but never an abstract cosmic being that experiences all timelines at once. Your argument basically says that Hakai can kill Living Tribunal because you said Beerus can use it on Zen'o

 

[Ogbunabali]

Matthew means everything you can do is canon and possible, including one punching Alduin and Miraak while wearing nothing.

When he said everything you can do is canon, he meant you can get every every item and complete every quest, not that you can punch Alduin naked or wall climb mountains with horse physics.

 

[KongKing23]

Matthew means everything you can do is canon and possible, including one punching Alduin and Miraak while wearing nothing.

When he said everything you can do is canon, he meant you can get every every item and complete every quest, not that you can punch Alduin naked or wall climb mountains with horse physics.

Well, it is still possible except you need to actually use Thu'um on both of them. It is just a minor joke example, so there is nothing to go fuss on about.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Everything that the Dovahkiin could do in his timeline has been done means that he did every single sidequest, but he isn't wearing all armors and/or equipping all weapons at the same time.

That's not how that works.

And what the ****? Hakai can't hurt The Living Tribunal because the Living Tribunal is 1-A.

And The Dovahkiin isn't an "abstract cosmic being" whatsoever.

Where did you get that?

The only thing the Dovahkiin has that's unique is Type 4 Acausality, which to my knowledge doesn't stop a person from being erased from existence.

 

[KongKing23]

Everything that the Dovahkiin could do in his timeline has been done means that he did every single sidequest, but he isn't wearing all armors and/or equipping all weapons at the same time.

That's not how that works.

And what the ****? Hakai can't hurt The Living Tribunal because the Living Tribunal is 1-A.

And The Dovahkiin isn't an "abstract cosmic being" whatsoever.

Where did you get that?

The only thing the Dovahkiin has that's unique is Type 4 Acausality, which to my knowledge doesn't stop a person from being erased from existence.

You argued that Hakai can be used on Zeno. I mean Beerus is scared upon hearing that name for the guy is way above him. Your argument would make it possible for that Living Tribunal example that I conveyed. It is a flawed logic The Prisoner is a cosmic entity which you can read on Matt profile, and the being has resisted against those vastly superior in erasure like void manipulation. I would say your knowledge is quite crappy since we have mentioned Alduin so many times here.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Is the Prisoner the same person as the Dovahkiin? Why does him resisting EE matter?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

All main characters of TES are referred to as The Prisoner as a basic classification. Its to do with the role they perform in the story.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

" The Prisoner is a cosmic entity which you can read on Matt profile, and the being has resisted against those vastly superior in erasure like void manipulation "

So what does this mean then? Aren't all of them very clearly different people? One of them even became Sheogorath, I think.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

Is the Prisoner the same person as the Dovahkiin? Why does him resisting EE matter?

The Prisoner is a Cosmic Constant that pervades throughout the Godhead's Dream. Every TES main protagonists that start as a prisoner is a Cosmic Constant that is free from deterministic fate and causality and who is simultaneously of every race, every gender, and who walks all paths. The Nerevarine during the event of C0DA: Landfall is a shapeless, multi-racial being who quantum-vibrates between several forms. You can read more about it from Matthew's blog.

And i might be wrong, but i'm pretty sure the Dovahkiin is missing several resistances in his profile. I mean, if he is vulnerable to EE, then i'm pretty sure Alduin could just eat him and then our hero would die.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Isn't it kind of hard to eat someone comparable to you mid combat though?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

No Prisoners scale to each other, or have the same resistances and equipments and stuff. Even if some resist EE, Dovahkiin doesn't have it. NGL, Kong wanks TES a bit.

Still iffy on Hakai working tbh. Even Frieza resisted Sidra's Hakai.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, that's why Frieza has resistance to Existence Erasure. For resisting an attack that would erase him from existence.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

Isn't it kind of hard to eat someone comparable to you mid combat though?

Not when you have the size of a skyscraper. Type 2 large size in Alduin's profile.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Is the model in Skyrim not to scale? I remember his head being slightly bigger than the player's body.

 

[Waria_Kambang]

I'm just going with what the profile said: "Large Size (At least Type 2 normally. At least Type 5 when eating the World)"

 

[KongKing23]

If I remember correctly, Esbern's prophetic vision actually saw Alduin going to devour the world. It certainly means that Alduin still has his world-ending power in the events of Skyrim. Again, he is just too arrogant. I remembered Matthew discussed this, hence, Alduin kept his 2-C mantle in Both flight from Adulagga and events of Skyrim.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is the model in Skyrim not to scale? I remember his head being slightly bigger than the player's body.

In Aldudagga Alduin is a mountain-biting kaiju.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Did he change his size or was his size rectonned/the game's portrayal of his size was wrong?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The game's portrayal is hardly up to scale. Giants for example, are described as being four times the size of men in the lore. Official Art of Odahviig depicts his wings alone as dwarfing a house in size.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Gotcha. Did the Dovakhiin fight Alduin anytimes besides the one in Sovngarde?

 

[Warren_Valion]

IIRC, They fought on that tall mountain in the game, and Alduin GTFO'd into the afterlife to feast on souls to get stronger.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@KongKing

That's a massive false equivalency and strawman.

Hax doesn't work on beings with resistance to it or beings that exist on a higher dimension than the one casting the ability unless shown otherwise.

The Living Tribunal is 1-A, a being that is beyond dimensions entirely.

Dragon Ball doesn't have 1-A beings that Hakai had shown to work on, and so Hakai can't be assumed to work on beings such as that.

However, Hakai does work on beings that are stronger than him that are within its dimensional level and to beings who don't resist it. The Dovahkiin applies to this.

Saying that Hakai is AP based is unfounded and is not believed or accepted by the wiki at all.

And Beerus is scared of Zeno because he is overwhelmingly stronger than him, and could him instantaneously.

 

[KongKing23]

@KongKing

That's a massive false equivalency and strawman.

Hax doesn't work on beings with resistance to it or beings that exist on a higher dimension than the one casting the ability unless shown otherwise.

The Living Tribunal is 1-A, a being that is beyond dimensions entirely.

Dragon Ball doesn't have 1-A beings that Hakai had shown to work on, and so Hakai can't be assumed to work on beings such as that.

However, Hakai does work on beings that are stronger than him that are within its dimensional level and to beings who don't resist it. The Dovahkiin applies to this.

Saying that Hakai is AP based is unfounded and is not believed or accepted by the wiki at all.

And Beerus is scared of Zeno because he is overwhelmingly stronger than him, and could him instantaneously.

The issue is you saying Hakai is not AP based, and it can create a flawed logic. I witnessed many DB fanatics using this Hakai argument to explain how Beerus killing Living Tribunal. My example of LB is parallel with the case of Zeno, which you never proved Hakai can work on a superior being in the same verse. Someone already mentioned about Frieza, and it certainly addresses my point clearly.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Kong, when someone uses hax on someone else and it doesn't work then that means the character has resistance. That is why Frieza was not erased from existence. Because he resisted it.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

For the Living Tribunal issue, mentioning DB fanatics saying Hakai works on him does not matter as no one here in this thread is arguing that.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Sidra was also holding back against Frieza when he used the Hakai since he was instructed not to kill.

If Hakai truly negated durability then it shouldn't have mattered that he was holding back, it would have erased Frieza on the spot.

It makes sense to deduce that Hakai is like any other Ki blast except it erases the target if they're weaker, especially since it has never been shown to work on someone stronger than the user.