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- #241
Fr. Everyone here agrees too. How unfortunate.We'll lose so many arguments and have to dig them back up all over again which no one wants to do. Seriously, there's a lot of shit that happened in this thread.
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The Elder Scrolls Half-Time Revisions
- Thread starter FaxNovuuuuu
- Start date
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- #243
It’s funny when you remember that flying is considered rudimentary for mages
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I distinctly remember the guide book says you got dragged into her realm it was just poorly animated since Skyrim. Like the Pelinal realm in oblivion (the game). Though even then Sheogorath does the same thing, much more objectively, and the Dovahkiin is helpless. Though I am super busy with school just wanted to clarify.
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- #245
We were in the sky but I would love to see that statement.Though I’m not arguing the Dovahkiin scales above all princes anyways
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Him being any tier 1 specifically relies on him being above Daedric princess. Alduin scales above them, he resets them all, if the Dovahkiin scales beneath them he doesn’t scale at all. Any anti feat nukes scale to Alduin and he still at the most clear cut possible is inferior to a dying and weakened avatar of a Daedric prince who is so weak he’s stuck in a cave, can be instantly trapped by Bal, be lol’d by sheogorath, and mora states he is absolutely nothing to him at all (specifically referring to Miraak who is the Dovahkiin nigh equal), who he also hit so hard he turned to dust (doesn’t matter if he was tired, if he scales to alduin that’s like a shadow turning your to dust be cause you have the common cold).
You guys keep trying justify it by say he won’t scale above them, but he would, he has no feats near them, the only feat is alduin and he’s above them.
You guys keep trying justify it by say he won’t scale above them, but he would, he has no feats near them, the only feat is alduin and he’s above them.
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- #247
No it doesn’t. If you read the original post NONE of the points alluded to the Daedric princes at all. It didn’t even pertain to Alduin. The points for high 1-B (and 1-A given the new revisions) were that he scales to Ancano who had the eye of Magnus’ full power and it was enough to destroy the Mundus and he was the only one who could tank hits against him, the Dovahkiin withstanding Ahzidal’s dawn magicks to which he scales above the Ayelids who made the moon vanish from the sky and the fact that it’s harnessing the unbound magic from the timeless and spaceless period of the dawn era, and so on.
Given the Daedric princes are going to be 1-A soon anyways, The Dovahkiin being High 1-B isn’t some outrageous thing.
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He doesn’t scale to the eye, he had to power null that or die horribly, that was the entire point of the staff and the quest. Without the staff he was 100% going to lose.
The dawn era gets its tier from scaling to Mundas which is the low 1-C part of the elder scrolls, if it gets changed to scaling to what alduin does, which I think it will, then that would be an outlier for the same reason alduin is, it scales above the Daedric princes, the Dovahkiin is 1000000% not above the Daedric princess. The eye is specifically an anti feat against them. They can only win by tuning it off with the staff designed to turn it off and people empowered by the eye are invincible to them. The only reason they don’t instantly kill you is because Skyrim as a game has zero way to dodge anything so that quest would soft lock itself. Story wise you are screwed without the staff.
The dawn era gets its tier from scaling to Mundas which is the low 1-C part of the elder scrolls, if it gets changed to scaling to what alduin does, which I think it will, then that would be an outlier for the same reason alduin is, it scales above the Daedric princes, the Dovahkiin is 1000000% not above the Daedric princess. The eye is specifically an anti feat against them. They can only win by tuning it off with the staff designed to turn it off and people empowered by the eye are invincible to them. The only reason they don’t instantly kill you is because Skyrim as a game has zero way to dodge anything so that quest would soft lock itself. Story wise you are screwed without the staff.
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- #249
I’ve already went I’ve this with finepoint in detail. He either scales to the staff or the eye, both of which are high 1-B for obvious reasons. I also don’t know why you’re stuck in 2019. Mundus has been rated as High 1-B for half a decade on here. I also don’t see why you’re bringing up the princes….when I just said that none of the justifications use the princes or Alduin…
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Because people have been saying constantly the Dovahkiin scales to Alduin or is close to the princes when neither can be true for how badly it’s contradicted by anti feats.
The staff doesn’t have tier 1 power, it has tier 1 power null. It makes no sense for it to have tier 1 power since that breaks everything about the eye. It’s the clearest case of circle scaling ever.
The staff doesn’t have tier 1 power, it has tier 1 power null. It makes no sense for it to have tier 1 power since that breaks everything about the eye. It’s the clearest case of circle scaling ever.
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- #252
It’s not just power null but also health as well. Meaning he would still scale. He also still took hits against Ancano and withstood his full power blast with the eye. If you think the staff gives a defensive amp, then he scales to being able to kill Morokei and be drained multiple times with it. If you think the staff doesn’t give a defensive amp, then he’s outright thanking high 1-B attacks when no one else could. No matter which way you look at it, it’s a High 1-B feat
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- #253
To which this was already went over. Why would magic work on an artifact by the GOD OF MAGIC?
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In game it does like 1 damage, I hate how we are trying to translate that as it doing a High 1-B attack versus it just happens to also be able to do very small amounts of 3-D damage that in lore is likely nonexistent. Because if the staff is a high 1-B attack that breaks the fact it can defeat the guy invincible to the Dovahkiin, meaning it should instantly kill you and is circle scaling immediately. If it’s just power nulling the eye then everything makes sense, which is exactly what it does in game, it turns the eye off.
You are going against the game with the second comment, the staff is specifically supposed to do that, it’s what it does in game to defeat the guy. It turns off the eye / removes the connection.
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The Dovahkiin in story doesn’t take hits from Ancano, it’s made clear everything is lost if you don’t get the staff. If you were comparable to him getting the staff would be a dangerous waste of time, plus it’s repeatedly made clear he will 100% kill you without the staff.
If he’s on par with the staff, why would he need it, and if he’s on par with Ancano why would he need the staff. Both ends break if he’s on par with the staff and it isn’t just power nulling the guy because he needs the staff.
If he’s on par with the staff, why would he need it, and if he’s on par with Ancano why would he need the staff. Both ends break if he’s on par with the staff and it isn’t just power nulling the guy because he needs the staff.
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- #256
Yet you concede it have high 1-B power null and by extension health drain as well too. You can’t have both. Because again…if you think the staff is ass then he would still scale.
and this Ignore the whole argument being made. Go back and read the first page of this revision.
Yes, he does. If you played the game, then you get in the room to battle him, Ancano unleashes the full power of the staff and everyone is instantly paralyzed except for you.
The same reason why the nerevarine needed to server the heart from Dagoth ur. The Nerevarine could beat Dagoth ur in a 1v1 and did. However he couldn’t put him down permanently. He could tank all the hits and but as we know, beings powered by divine artifacts or beings that are gods cannot be put down normally. Look at Alduin, Dagoth ur, and so on. Dagoth ur and Ancano are similar. No one could beat them due to their connection with a divine artifact, we outright tank tanks from their full potency, and we need to sever their connection to the artifact that makes them invulnerable.
As for it breaking on both ends, it doesn’t. As I’ve said, you literally survive having your health, Magic, and stamina drained by the staff many times over by Morokei and then kill him.
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A rather entertaining debate about whether Alduin really eats in the "literal" sense of the Gods. I have proof that you may have missed
The Leaper King is one of the few primordial spirits that can survive its bite. Implying that many of the Deities disappear into Alduin's mouth. Which is actually very significant, given the physiology of Etda.
"To which Alduin roared and laughed and said, "King of Leapers, you always bounce up to me around this time (for you are one of the only spirits that can last til my last bite) and shout, 'Wait!', but I never do and I will not now. Leap up to Hrothgaar's top and wait awhile longer in little dignity. The two bells have went 'Gong! Gong!' and that means the kalpa has turned.""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga
During an attempt to dissuade the Time Dragon God from eating kalpa, the Leaper King also mentions that Alduin is one of the very first and last spirits. We recall that for the Nordic Pantheon, Alduin is both the Creator God and the God of the Apocalypse, since he simultaneously devours the world (not even leaving a time continuum), and at the same time observes the birth of a new world, coming the very first of all. It also means that other spirits that have fallen under his bite dissolve before the end of the cycle, and do not see the birth of the world.
"The Leaper Demon King knew all this was true but still he said, "Wait, first and last of spirits, the kalpa-turning is brought too soon and I can prove it! Look over there on top of Red Mountain. See the Greedy Man waving his arms?""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga
This also goes along with the fact that other Gods (Even such as the Daedric Princes) fear Alduin and his return from sleep.
"And by turns the snow whale and the dirtbird told the story, and its details, and in his magnificence did Molag Bal know that this was indeed the dream-work of Mehrunes Dagon, his brother of razors, the only Prince who dared trouble the sleep of the dragon-eater, Alduin."
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga
In the Nordic pantheon, Alduin and Talos are considered twilight gods that do not need temples - when they appear, there will be no point in building them, much less using them - another waste of time, since their appearance will mark the end of the kalpa, the end of the cycle. It is understood that only Talos will be able to pass unharmed into the next kalpa, while the rest of the Nord Gods are devoured by Alduin, completing the cycle of creation.
"The Twilight Gods:
The Twilight Gods need no temples– when they show up, there won’t be any reason to build them, much less use them – another waste of time. That said, Nords do venerate them, as they always venerate the cycles of things, and especially the Last War where they will show their final, best worth.
The Dragon, Alduin - Alduin is venerated on the winter solstice by ceremonies at ancient Dragon Cult temples, where offerings are made to keep him asleep for one more year. Alduin is also the source of many common superstitious practices before any event of significance.
The Dragonborn God, Talos - Talos’ totem is the newest, but is everywhere – he is the Dragonborn Conquering Son, the first new god of this cycle, whose power is consequently unknown, so the Nords bless nearly everything with his totem, since he might very well be the god of it now, too. Yes, as first of the Twilight Gods, this practice might seem contradictory, but that’s only because, of all the gods, he will be the one that survives in whole into the next cycle."
— The Nords' Totemic Religion
The Leaper King is one of the few primordial spirits that can survive its bite. Implying that many of the Deities disappear into Alduin's mouth. Which is actually very significant, given the physiology of Etda.
"To which Alduin roared and laughed and said, "King of Leapers, you always bounce up to me around this time (for you are one of the only spirits that can last til my last bite) and shout, 'Wait!', but I never do and I will not now. Leap up to Hrothgaar's top and wait awhile longer in little dignity. The two bells have went 'Gong! Gong!' and that means the kalpa has turned.""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga
During an attempt to dissuade the Time Dragon God from eating kalpa, the Leaper King also mentions that Alduin is one of the very first and last spirits. We recall that for the Nordic Pantheon, Alduin is both the Creator God and the God of the Apocalypse, since he simultaneously devours the world (not even leaving a time continuum), and at the same time observes the birth of a new world, coming the very first of all. It also means that other spirits that have fallen under his bite dissolve before the end of the cycle, and do not see the birth of the world.
"The Leaper Demon King knew all this was true but still he said, "Wait, first and last of spirits, the kalpa-turning is brought too soon and I can prove it! Look over there on top of Red Mountain. See the Greedy Man waving his arms?""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga
This also goes along with the fact that other Gods (Even such as the Daedric Princes) fear Alduin and his return from sleep.
"And by turns the snow whale and the dirtbird told the story, and its details, and in his magnificence did Molag Bal know that this was indeed the dream-work of Mehrunes Dagon, his brother of razors, the only Prince who dared trouble the sleep of the dragon-eater, Alduin."
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga
In the Nordic pantheon, Alduin and Talos are considered twilight gods that do not need temples - when they appear, there will be no point in building them, much less using them - another waste of time, since their appearance will mark the end of the kalpa, the end of the cycle. It is understood that only Talos will be able to pass unharmed into the next kalpa, while the rest of the Nord Gods are devoured by Alduin, completing the cycle of creation.
"The Twilight Gods:
The Twilight Gods need no temples– when they show up, there won’t be any reason to build them, much less use them – another waste of time. That said, Nords do venerate them, as they always venerate the cycles of things, and especially the Last War where they will show their final, best worth.
The Dragon, Alduin - Alduin is venerated on the winter solstice by ceremonies at ancient Dragon Cult temples, where offerings are made to keep him asleep for one more year. Alduin is also the source of many common superstitious practices before any event of significance.
The Dragonborn God, Talos - Talos’ totem is the newest, but is everywhere – he is the Dragonborn Conquering Son, the first new god of this cycle, whose power is consequently unknown, so the Nords bless nearly everything with his totem, since he might very well be the god of it now, too. Yes, as first of the Twilight Gods, this practice might seem contradictory, but that’s only because, of all the gods, he will be the one that survives in whole into the next cycle."
— The Nords' Totemic Religion
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- #258
He’s already High 1-B. Might as well call it a win. He likely won’t get a 1-A rating on the princes.
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When we are told outright that he is above the Princes and they are afraid of him, but he does not rise to the rank of Princes. Ridiculous hypocrisy
When we are told outright that he is above the Princes and they are afraid of him, but he does not rise to the rank of Princes. Ridiculous hypocrisy
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- #260
it was contradicted in the story. Besides High 1-B Alduin is good enough I guess.
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I have not played Skyrim in a very, very long time but this caught my attention. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this questline a midgame questline? If so why are we using it as an antifeat against a late game Dovahkiin?
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B U M P
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Bump (please make it thread work, goddamn)
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BUMP OR I KILL MYSELF
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Perhaps Staff need to be contacted or something?
What matters are there to go over?
Also, please do not go to such extreme measures.
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I think Ultima was gonna make a whole revision later on
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How long has that been in the works?
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No idea, could have been months
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Where does the H1-B Prince scaling come from?
Does it still come from the
Quote? Because I honestly think that quote sucks
It 100% seems to be saying " The Sea of Dimensions that are limitless, contains an endless series of those dimensions "
But even if it's ambigious, that seems like a lot to scale of a vague statement
And I can find supporting evidence of the term "limitless" being used to refer to Oblivion realms
I think it would be better to scale them to 1-A, because there are actually a bunch of statements, putting Daedric Princes / The Realms of Oblivion as being beyond dimensions entirely, which seems more solid
Does it still come from the
Quote? Because I honestly think that quote sucks
It 100% seems to be saying " The Sea of Dimensions that are limitless, contains an endless series of those dimensions "
But even if it's ambigious, that seems like a lot to scale of a vague statement
And I can find supporting evidence of the term "limitless" being used to refer to Oblivion realms
I think it would be better to scale them to 1-A, because there are actually a bunch of statements, putting Daedric Princes / The Realms of Oblivion as being beyond dimensions entirely, which seems more solid
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its just outdated stuff princes are gonna be somewhere in the 1-A to high 1-A range when ultima is done with his revision prep
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Ok cool thats what I was told when I asked before just wanted to make sure, I think Ultima themselves said that when I asked, but I wasn't sure if people were still using it seriously
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Bump
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