The End All Be All of Fire Force Revision Threads!

[PrinceofPein]

Just thinking instead of going through that again, cause it has been shown that all it is affecting in the final cataclysm is the planet, since it is simply turning earth into another sun

 

[PowerToScale]

Guys, I won't argue over this. The scan explicitly showed and separated two words: World and Universe. And it even said matter of scale, unless you are making the biggest assumption that both means “universes”, then you have to show evidence for this.

But it makes 1000000% sense that it was referring world as in planet since the first scan of OP showed it perfectly how world looks like.

I won't argue based on assumptions or "Welp, mAybe it is a universe".

"World" is a word that holds multiple meanings depending on the context. World can mean society, planet, universe, realm/dimension... etc depending on the context, one of the most common usages of the word "world" used in fiction is it being used to refer to other universes/realities... especially in Japanese media

Also it being used separately in one scene doesn't mean it means the same thing in the other, especially when the second scan talks about other celestial bodies such as stars and moons, which is context given that world refers to the greater cosmos than just the planet.

 

[Alexander]

Has any of these points been addressed, I mean it took me days to come up with this from a previous thread.

FIRST
I will be addressing the whole "Jiovanni saying the universe" thing.
Like I said that's flowering, let's look at the context closely, From chapter 208. We have Haumea calling an assembly of all the white clads, in which jiovanni is part, Then she explicitly said, "bring fiery doom to this planet", Then she said the great cataclysm as started and there is no stopping it anymore. Then we have the whole yona speech explaining how he built the world for adolla. Then in chapter 234, we have a few of the white goons around still discussing. Literally, before Jiovanni made that statement Sumire and yona explained that great cataclysm simply ends humankind. And since they are the oldest pillars and withnessed the first cataclysm, they are sure as hell more knowledgeable. And also right before jiovanni said that, Haumea said the conclusion is death, in reference to yona's statement and charon's about mankind. Then we have Jiovanni making the statement "Human's heading for death, for destructions........... it is true of this planet, it is true of the universe"
Combining previous contexts, jiovanni words become flowery like I already said, and the way it was said was also flowery. so please stop this entire thing about his words been valid.
Anyway, to finish things, keep reading, you have a long way to go. Argue with scans not me.
And your beloved jiovanni said this about the great cataclysm and not flowery at all

Also he said this "Will turn this planet into a sun"

SECONDLY
Adolla is simply going to affect earth
I mean here are so many statements/showings saying that, and there are more.
1. Fiery doom to this planet

2. This planet will become a world of flames

3. turn this planet into a flaming sun

4. then this planet will become a world of fire

5. Jiovanni said "Will turn this planet into a sun"

6. Now grant this planet salvation

7. What the hell is happening to our planet
e.t.c.

THIRD
The great cataclysm is not adolla merging with the universe or something as that is what the OP implies, The great cataclysm is adolla merging with earth and giving birth to a new sun.
Here are the scans.
1. We will cause a great cataclysm.... turn this planet into a world of flame once more.... That is our mission..... for that purpose alone we

2. Light up the lost souls.... scorch the earth.... turn this planet into a flaming sun

3. Then this world will be a second sun

4. You want to make this planet? A STAR

5. Converting this planet into a sun

6. Too long to type, open it

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

8. So we can light up this star (poor charon)
e.t.c.

FOURTH
Adolla and perception shenanigan, and despair. The entire adolla is simply the end of humans, as all things come to an end and that is what despair is
1. Send mankind back to the flame all in accordance with the evangelist will

2. we will turn all humans beings to flame and cover the earth in the great flame of fire

3. They wish for death
Three separate scans in that one

4. Extinction of mankind

5. consumed the land in which humanity lived

6. The world of perception and reality has become one and about half the planet is in flames

7. Everything in this world from humans all the way to the stars heads toward destrution the second they come to being

8. The human world is on its way to destruction

9. Too long to type

10. Too long to type

11. Amidst all those stars and planet, I saw the danger ours was facing

12. The human race is done for

13. Our world will unite with adolla and the planet will be burn to cinders

14. Hibana is cute and smart

15. Our world will be destroyed

16. Too long to type

17. Planet's subconscious

18. Humanity desires its own extermination and adolla is bring it to pass
e.t.c.


FIFTH
The great cataclysm completion is not anyway affecting the universe as thats what the OP entails, but rather earth alone.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.
e.t.c.

SIXTH
If this goes through, everyone's mother becomes 3-A, so many anti-feat.


SUMMARY
With the context provided and the fact that jiovanni referred to great cataclysm when he made that statement you are trying to use to upgrade them. He meant humanity and this becomes flowery.
Believe me the verse/adolla is consistently tier 5, and adolla is not AP related at all.
Like not even one showing of adolla can be equated to AP.
Now way in over 60 statements vs one misguided statement from a creep that you took well out of contexts. And I cannot stress this enough "Argue with the scans and not me"

bro, you're ignoring the stars, your argument dies for there,because in the same scan you posted,it literraly mentions the stars,and also,what the heck?

What are you talking about? Only those who will be universal are Adolla, La Evangelista and Shinrabanshoman. nobody else,why people are saying that stupidity

 

[ImmortalDread]

This isn’t an assumption Dread.

adolla is not a universe, it is the collective unconsciousness of humanity. although of course, maybe another universe exists if you consider the world of particles where shinra travels through time as one.

Def not assumption.

The first scan explicitly says “world” AND “universe.” So idk what your issue is with that there.

It is not an issue, it is my argument. The author separated two terms, which means one is universal scale and the other is plantery scale.

Again, you don't know synonyms then. world, listen, world can mean universe, because planet and world don't have the same meaning. And in this context, it makes more sense that it was the universe and not the planet, because seriously, it was made narratively clear that adolla is not limited to earth.

I don't need to listen. Sekai means world as @Arc7Kuroi said. The author explicitly separated the two terms unless your argument is that there are two universes, you have to show the evidence.

"World" is a word that holds multiple meanings depending on the context. World can mean society, planet, universe, realm/dimension... etc depending on the context, one of the most common usages of the word "world" used in fiction is it being used to refer to other universes/realities... especially in Japanese media

Don't talk about context, either it is two universes which you have to prove it or one is planet as the first scan showed and one is universe.

 

[Deceived3596]

Alexander treating Pain like a filler villain.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Alexander treating Pain like a filler villain.

Alexander's the final boss now that XXKING is gone

 

[Alexander]

I don't need to listen. Sekai means world as @Arc7Kuroi said. The author explicitly separated the two terms unless your argument is that there are two universes, you have to show the evidence.

My god these people don't like synonyms.
the author does not write ''hoshi''when giovanni talks about the physics of the world,he talks about the ''sekai''or ''world''but he does not referring to earth.
and considering the amount of things he is saying,it does not make sense that the world is reffering to earth only,because again,the stars and the moon does not make part of earth

 

[Deceived3596]

Alexander's the final boss now that XXKING is gone

He's always been the final boss, XXKINGXX69 was just a fragment of Alexander's power given form.

 

[ImmortalDread]

You are going to prove the existence of two universes @Alexander. Till then, not going to buy any arguments from your side.

 

[InfiniteDay]

He's always been the final boss, XXKINGXX69 was just a fragment of Alexander's power given form.

XXKING walked so Alexander could run

 

[Dalesean027]

XXKING walked so Alexander could run

I'd hate to see who comes to leap after that run

 

[Alexander]

You are going to prove the existence of two universes @Alexander. Till then, not going to buy any arguments from your side.

But what are you talking about? You're not talking about another universe, they're talking about the same one. not from another universe, they refer to the same universe.
it's the same storyline with zeref affecting the universe again, but changed.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I'd hate to see who comes to leap after that run

I'd like to nominate @ImmortalDread for this award.

 

[azontr]

The arguments rn are legitimately so incoherent I can't even form a conclusion cause idek wtf is going on.

Thread clog is real.

 

[ImmortalDread]

@Alexander prove there are two universes

 

[Alexander]

The arguments rn are legitimately so incoherent I can't even form a conclusion cause idek wtf is going on.

Thread clog is real.

what arguments?

 

[Alexander]

@Alexander prove there are two universes

in that scan he refers to the world (the earth) and then he says the universe.
but in the other, he clearly meant the universe.
For the last ******* time, world can mean the earth and the universe doesn't mean a thing.

 

[azontr]

what arguments?

The current one, between you and Dread.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Can we please not derail the thread too much? It’s already a clusterfuck with all the arguments going around as is

Also I think I was mistaken a little. Merging the two worlds would require there to be two universes if “sekai” means “universe.” Then I guess I would be proposing the existence of two universes, but at the same time, I don’t consider this unfounded

 

[Alexander]

Can we please not derail the thread too much? It’s already a clusterfuck with all the arguments going around as is

Also I think I was mistaken a little. Merging the two worlds would require there to be two universes if “sekai” means “universe.” Then I guess I would be proposing the existence of two universes, but at the same time, I don’t consider this unfounded

he is referring to adolla, and adolla is another dimension, or rather a higher dimension.

 

[CloverDragon03]

he is referring to adolla, and adolla is another dimension, or rather a higher dimension.

I will admit I’m not the most knowledgeable on Fire Force so I’ve been gathering my arguments based on what the OP and the counters have presented

Still, the main thing that sticks out to me is the use of the term “sekai,” which is rather ambiguous and needs further context than simply assuming it means “planet”

 

[ImmortalDread]

in that scan he refers to the world (the earth) and then he says the universe.
but in the other, he clearly meant the universe.
For the last ******* time, world can mean the earth and the universe doesn't mean a thing.

You did not prove anything. Send evidences

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Just thinking instead of going through that again, cause it has been shown that all it is affecting in the final cataclysm is the planet, since it is simply turning earth into another sun

What about the first shown cataclysm? Hm?

 

[PowerToScale]

Don't talk about context, either it is two universes which you have to prove it or one is planet as the first scan showed and one is universe.

My guy, you can't ignore context of a scene and insert you own headcanon... Where the hell did you get 2 universes from? If it because they used world and universe separately, you do know that world in that context refers to the planet (earth) and that universe means the greater universe. Again world has different means depending on the context of the scene.

 

[ImmortalDread]

If it is not two universes, then you are proving me right. @PowerToScale

And one more info, the OP send raws and it shows that the world used there is the same as world in that universe scan.

So now who is doing headcanon?

 

[CloverDragon03]

My guy, you can't ignore context of a scene and insert you own headcanon... Where the hell did you get 2 universes from? If it because they used world and universe separately, you do know that world in that context refers to the planet (earth) and that universe means the greater universe. Again world has different means depending on the context of the scene.

I agree here that you can’t just say “don’t talk about context” for the sake of ignoring context to push an argument. That comes off as incredibly disingenuous

 

[ImmortalDread]

I agree here that you can’t just say “don’t talk about context” for the sake of ignoring context to push an argument. That comes off as incredibly disingenuous

Oh let's talk about context, prove me there is two universes if the world in that context means universe.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I agree here that you can’t just say “don’t talk about context” for the sake of ignoring context to push an argument. That comes off as incredibly disingenuous

It's not ignoring context, they're comparing scales, the scan itself says so.

 

[CloverDragon03]

If it is not two universes, then you are proving me right. @PowerToScale

And one more info, the OP send raws and it shows that the world used there is the same as world in that universe scan.

So now who is doing headcanon?

Again, sekai can mean planet or universe depending on the context. The kanji can be the exact same in both scans and mean different things because the context is different. “Sekai” is a word with more than one meaning

 

[ImmortalDread]

Sure sure, let's pretend it is a universe.

You three did not prove the existence of 2 universes.

 

[PowerToScale]

Oh let's talk about context, prove me there is two universes if the world in that context means universe.

I never said there were two universes, it was you who came up with that idea, I simply pointed out that context can dictate a words meaning.

 

[Maitreya12]

Has any of these points been addressed, I mean it took me days to come up with this from a previous thread.

FIRST
I will be addressing the whole "Jiovanni saying the universe" thing.
Like I said that's flowering,

I have already rebutted this position. Which I will again quote as you did not refute the position.


Counter Argument #3: “The universe statements are just flowery language.”

Rebuttal: This is a non argument and is completely dismissive of evidence presented.There is absolutely no bearing for this argument whatsoever. There is nothing “flowery” about the statements given in the series and in fact they are used quite literally time and time again. This is simply a poor attempt at dismissing the credible and in universe statements supporting the notion of Adolla affecting the whole universe rather than just some arbitrary range.

When Dragon states “let us determine the fate of the stars.” There is no “flowery language” in that statement. He’s talking purely literally because Adolla has actually shown to reality warp the stars. Which can even be seen all throughout the background of Dragon’s statement along every other background shot of space.

When Giovanni says “the physics of the world have been altered.” There is no flowery language in that statement because we’ve seen the universe be reality warped. Not only that but it’s also entirely consistent with this statement he made earlier as well.

There is no “flowery language” here with these statements. They’re made entirely literally and to try and dismiss these multitude of statements as “vague” or “flowery” is simply a poor dismissal of evidence presented and demonstrates why the current scaling for fire force is totally flawed due to the need to ignore and dismiss these statements in order for the scaling to remain the way it is currently.

To Add:

You can’t accuse someone of ignoring context if you’re literally going to ignore context in this post. If you value Haumea’s words so much why don’t you look at how she directly calls Adolla the will of the universe.

Furthermore, and thus part is very important. Not a single scan you posted has proved your position. And this is for one simple reason.

saying the planet will be destroyed=/= only the planet will be destroyed.

Haumea talks about Adolla being the will of the universe. But is this yet another statement to be dismissed?

SECONDLY
Adolla is simply going to affect earth
I mean here are so many statements/showings saying that, and there are more.
1. Fiery doom to this planet

2. This planet will become a world of flames

3. turn this planet into a flaming sun

4. then this planet will become a world of fire

5. Jiovanni said "Will turn this planet into a sun"

6. Now grant this planet salvation

7. What the hell is happening to our planet
e.t.c.

I have already rebuttaled this point which you have failed to refute so I will reiterate.


Counter Argument #1: “Adolla is only merging with the planet and not the universe.”

Rebuttal: Objectively false. The reality warping happening within the series is due to Adolla merging with the universe.

Whatever Adolla merges with is whatever is being reality warped. If Adolla was just merging with the planet then there would be no reality warping done on the grand universe. But that clearly is not the case here.

Thus because we outright see Adolla reality warping the universe, far extending past a planetary range, multiple times, it is to be taken that Adolla is merging with the whole universe instead of just the planet as that stance is blatantly contradicted within the series.

Counter Argument #2: “Fire Force says only the world is being merged with Adolla. Therefore it can’t be the universe.”

Rebuttal: Irrelevant. World can = universe. This is known powerscaling 101. In fact world has been directly used to refer to the universe before as well. And considering that Adolla is both referred to as the universe’s will as well as it being outright stated multiple times that Adolla is affecting the wholeuniverse, coupled with the presence of multiple feats showcasing Adolla effecting the universe it should be taken as universe instead of just planetary. Merging with the world=/=only merging with the planet. Those two statement do not go hand in hand and needs to be proven to be the case.

It’s entirely consistent with the series while claiming it isn’t affecting the universe is contradictory to the series. It’s as simple as that.

THIRD
The great cataclysm is not adolla merging with the universe or something as that is what the OP implies, The great cataclysm is adolla merging with earth and giving birth to a new sun.
Here are the scans.
1. We will cause a great cataclysm.... turn this planet into a world of flame once more.... That is our mission..... for that purpose alone we

2. Light up the lost souls.... scorch the earth.... turn this planet into a flaming sun

3. Then this world will be a second sun

4. You want to make this planet? A STAR

5. Converting this planet into a sun

6. Too long to type, open it

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

8. So we can light up this star (poor charon)
e.t.c.

So why is the universe in a visibly different art-style than what the world was originally? Why are the stars and moon reality warped and not just the earth? Why is Haumea directly calling Adolla the will of the universe?

You have failed to rebut anything I have talked about. You literally did not address a single argument I presented. You just went on your own spiel without actually rebutting anything.

FOURTH
Adolla and perception shenanigan, and despair. The entire adolla is simply the end of humans, as all things come to an end and that is what despair is
1. Send mankind back to the flame all in accordance with the evangelist will

2. we will turn all humans beings to flame and cover the earth in the great flame of fire

3. They wish for death
Three separate scans in that one

4. Extinction of mankind

5. consumed the land in which humanity lived

6. The world of perception and reality has become one and about half the planet is in flames

7. Everything in this world from humans all the way to the stars heads toward destrution the second they come to being

8. The human world is on its way to destruction

9. Too long to type

10. Too long to type

11. Amidst all those stars and planet, I saw the danger ours was facing

12. The human race is done for

13. Our world will unite with adolla and the planet will be burn to cinders

14. Hibana is cute and smart

15. Our world will be destroyed

16. Too long to type

17. Planet's subconscious

18. Humanity desires its own extermination and adolla is bring it to pass
e.t.c.

Literally nothing here contradicts my position. As was stated earlier. Affecting the planet=/= only affecting the planet. Earth is just the main focus of the characters due to it being where the story is.

But by all accounts we fundamentally witness Adolla reality warping more than just the earth.

You can’t argue with on panel feats.

FIFTH
The great cataclysm completion is not anyway affecting the universe as thats what the OP entails, but rather earth alone.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.
e.t.c.

SIXTH
If this goes through, everyone's mother becomes 3-A, so many anti-feat.

What are you talking about?

Are you joking? You have to be joking or severely misinformed. This only scales to two characters.

Shinrabanshoman and Adolla/Haumea. The actual god tiers of the verse. Please explain how Arthur or Beimaru become 3-A with this revision?

SUMMARY
With the context provided and the fact that jiovanni referred to great cataclysm when he made that statement you are trying to use to upgrade them. He meant humanity and this becomes flowery.
Believe me the verse/adolla is consistently tier 5, and adolla is not AP related at all.
Like not even one showing of adolla can be equated to AP.
Now way in over 60 statements vs one misguided statement from a creep that you took well out of contexts. And I cannot stress this enough "Argue with the scans and not me"

It’s not just “one misguided” statement. That’s just you arguing with the scans chief.

Dragon directly says the fight determines the future of the stars.

“oh it’s just flowery.”
- literally arguing against the manga.

Jiovanni reiterated that Adolla is reality warping the universe.

“Oh it’s just flowery”
- literally trying to ignore the manga for own personal opinion.

Haumea directly calls Adolla the will of the universe.

“Oh but she says the world will burn.”
- Literally there’s a fundamental distinction between “the planet” and “only the planet.”

TLDR;

Next time how about you actually refute my post instead of going off on your spiel. You literally did exactly what I said you would. In that you ignored feats in the series and dismissed multiple statements. You literally didn’t even try to address any of my arguments. Proven my the fact that you talked about none of the FEATS I brought up.

The fundamental distinction between your argument and mine is that in order for your position to work. You need to dismiss(1) multiple(2) statements(3) and completely(1) ignore feats(2) while absolutely nothing has to be ignored or dismissed for my position to work. Because nothing contradicts it unlike yours.

 

[Halkum145]

What the hell is 2 universes

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never said there were two universes, it was you who came up with that idea, I simply pointed out that context can dictate a words meaning.

So you are agreeing that the world there refers to "Planet". Gotchu

 

[ImmortalDread]

What the hell is 2 universes

No idea, some guy here claiming that the world means "universe", so the author is referring to two universes apparently.

 

[PowerToScale]

So you are agreeing that the world there refers to "Planet". Gotchu

Aight, I'm pretty confident I fallen for a troll, if not. Do I think world means planet... Depends on context. if it is referring to the two scans from before, first scan world=planet, second scan world=universe.

 

[Maitreya12]

Just thinking instead of going through that again, cause it has been shown that all it is affecting in the final cataclysm is the planet, since it is simply turning earth into another sun

So I guess this and this just don’t exist in the manga does it?

 

[Halkum145]

No idea, some guy here claiming that the world means "universe", so the author is referring to two universes apparently.

Earth does not mean universe. sekai means universe sekai can be used as both world and universe and the author does not talk about 2 universes or anything

 

[Alexander]

You did not prove anything. Send evidences

https://cdn.readkakegurui.com/file/mangaifenzi22/enen-no-shouboutai/chapter-234-the-8th/6.jpg

here he says that what will happen to the world will happen to the universe.

https://cdn.readkakegurui.com/file/mangaifenzi22/fire-force-enen-no-shouboutai/chapter-246-destruction-spell/18.jpg

here he says that the physics of the ''world''(this time he means the universe)were change.

https://cdn.readkakegurui.com/file/mangaifenzi22/fire-force-enen-no-shouboutai/chapter-253-the-devouring-shadow/9.jpg

victor says that reality and the world of perception(adolla)where now one,meaning that all the universe was merge.

when giovanni says "world" he is not talking about the earth, he is talking about the universe, world (sekai) can also mean universe, and in the context that the stars had changed their shape, it would mean that what he said is TRUE.
do you understand now?or i need to explain again for the 5 time

 

[Halkum145]

Let me explain what powertoscale is talking about here. In the 1st panel, sekai is used as the world. There are certain reasons for this. In the 2nd panel, sekai is used as the universe.