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The End All Be All of Fire Force Revision Threads!

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Maitreya said:
To All Staff and Regular Members Viewing this CRT:

Because this CRT is kinda getting bogged down and going back and forth, I am now going to summarize the current counter argument as well as address them in this post to to try and keep this concise. Treat this post as a kind of second OP if you will.

Primary Counter Argument: “Adolla is only merging with the planet, not the whole universe. The usage of the term ‘world’ is meant to mean planet and not universe.”

Rebuttal: This is false. As stated in the OP, the reality warping that is caused in the series is due to Adolla’s world merging with the real world. What Adolla is merging with is the cause of the reality warping. Hence the dichotomy between Adolla merging with just the planet to

So, to prove the position that Adolla is merging with the wide spread universe and demonstrate the usage of the term “world” here refers to “universe” as opposed to “planet,” what needs to be done is prove Adolla’s reality warping extends pasts a planetary range. Let me make it clear though, it can mean “planet” depending on the statement, but that doesn’t mean it just means planet in all contexts.

With that being said, I will first state and explain the feats demonstrating my position as well as counter the arguments made against them. Let’s begin:

Feat #1: Reality was 3D, Now it’s 2D

Counter: “Space wasn’t shown. All that we see is the earth in 3-D art-style.”

Rebuttal: Irrelevant.

What was shown was reality being 3D. Earth is just the place reality was shown because it’s the center of the story. But reality was the thing being shown to be in 3D. Not “just the earth.”

Trying to insinuate that just because only the earth was shown to be in 3D therefore the rest of the universe wasn’t is not only baseless but totally nonsensical as well. When you go into outer space the art-style doesn’t magically shift into anime-like. No reality remains the same no matter the planet. Therefore the art-style of the universe matches that of the planet as is standard assumption.

Tldr; Earth being shown to be in 3D doesn’t matter and has no bearing on the argument because the focus isn’t on the earth. It’s on reality as a whole. Therefore this reality warping was done on the wider universe and not “just the earth.”

Feat #2: The stars are Shifting!

Counter: “The stars were never reality warped, they were just created because they’re closer to the earth.”

Rebuttal: Literal Headcanon.

There is no basis for this assertion. None whatsoever. The ability being referred to here (creation) is an ability not even listed on Shinra’s profile. That’s because it’s an ability that has never been demonstrated in the series. It’s only ever been reality warping. We even have a visual representation of what this reality warping looks like thanks to the Fire Force anime.

fire-force-moon.gif


As you can see only reality warping is done. No creation is involved. If that wasn’t enough, it straight up outright stated the stars are being reality warped and not created.

Right here it says the very physics of the world have been altered including the stars and the moon.

It’s been outright stated that reality warping is happening on the stars and moon. They are not being created just like how the moon wasn’t created and rather reality warped.

To further support this notion, here’s another statement directly stating Adolla is affecting the stars.

“Determine the future of the stars” is quite the direct way of saying Adolla is affecting the stars with its reality warping as well.

The position “the stars were closer to the earth therefore they were created.” Is once again baseless because the stare could’ve simply been reality warped closer to the earth as they changed into little blocks.

How do I know this? Well it’s because that’s exactly what Shinra did!

He reality warped the sun into a big dumb happy face and brought it closer to the earth as is notably seen in in the image as well as its sequel Soul Eater. So why on earth is it being presumed the stars were created instead of what’s been consistently shown and stated to be happening which is reality warping?

TLDR; This counter position is literally just fantasy. There’s actually nothing that supports this assertion. Nothing at all. It’s literal fanfiction.

In Summary:

The feats presented in the series overwhelmingly demonstrate reality warping on a far grander scale than planetary range.

The counter positions’ assertions of Adolla merging with only the planet is null and void due to the presence of multiple reality warping feats far extending past planetary and stellar ranges as well as the presence of statements outright saying the physics of the universe has been altered.

The assertion that the stars were simply created and not reality warped is completely unfounded, baseless, and nonsensical as this assertion can be found nowhere in the series and is directly contradicted by multiple statements outright stating that the stars have been reality warped and Adolla is a threat to the stars.

Due to the fact that the reality warping is caused by Adolla’s merger with reality, the usage of the term “world” as well as Adolla’s total merge is done through the wider universe as opposed to just the planet due to the fact that the reality warping extends to the universe and is not limited to just the earth.

Now that this has been said and done I would like to hear opinions/stances from people about which position is to be favored so I can formally count the agreements, disagreements, and neutral stances here.
Click to expand...
I agree with the OP, as well as it scaling to stats.
 
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Maitreya said:
Yes now…back to it. @Deceived3596 I believe you were waiting for this.

Why this scales to stats:

I wanna try and make this simple so I’m going to make this as concise as can be. Now, the reason Adolla’s hax feats scales to stats is because…well in the case of Adolla, there really is no distinction between hax and stats here. Let me explain:

To get our bearings right I wanna direct us to the statements @Dalesean027 pointed put just above citing how the Evangelist is Adolla itself given form.

This is meant to be a frame of reference here to show that Adolla (the world of thoughts and ideation in which all of humanities collective unconscious reaches)= the Evangelist (Adolla given form which is meant to embody the concept and idea of “God” humans have come up with over the millennia)= the Cataclysm (the product of Adolla merging with the real world).

Now as cited earlier, the reality warping is done as a result of Adolla merging with the world. The rules of reality were rewritten as a result of this. What Adolla is reality warping is what Adolla is merging with.

So the reason this is scaling to stats is because Adolla is physically merging with the universe. And because Adolla is physically merging with the universe this scales with the Evangelist as well because the Evangelist is Adolla. There is no distinction between them, they are the same thing. What Adolla is merging with is what the Evangelist is also becoming as well since the Evangelist is just Adolla given form.

This is not unfounded in the series because Adolla and the Evangelist embodies the very concept of the “world” itself (which we’ve established here to mean “universe.”) So Adolla merging with the universe and embodying it is also further supported in the series.

And since Shinra (in his God tier state) could not only completely neg Adolla (now fused with Haumea) and all her abilities, but also destroy the very embodiment of despair that Adolla itself represents, this should be scaling to their physical stats as well because the merger is a physical feat entirely done by Adolla and Shinra is destroying the very embodiment of Adolla itself.

I hope that clear things up :) if anyone else has some further input on this notion by all means share it.
Click to expand...
Looks good
 
Maitreya said:
To All Staff and Regular Members Viewing this CRT:

Because this CRT is kinda getting bogged down and going back and forth, I am now going to summarize the current counter argument as well as address them in this post to to try and keep this concise. Treat this post as a kind of second OP if you will.

Primary Counter Argument: “Adolla is only merging with the planet, not the whole universe. The usage of the term ‘world’ is meant to mean planet and not universe.”

Rebuttal: This is false. As stated in the OP, the reality warping that is caused in the series is due to Adolla’s world merging with the real world. What Adolla is merging with is the cause of the reality warping. Hence the dichotomy between Adolla merging with just the planet to

So, to prove the position that Adolla is merging with the wide spread universe and demonstrate the usage of the term “world” here refers to “universe” as opposed to “planet,” what needs to be done is prove Adolla’s reality warping extends pasts a planetary range. Let me make it clear though, it can mean “planet” depending on the statement, but that doesn’t mean it just means planet in all contexts.

With that being said, I will first state and explain the feats demonstrating my position as well as counter the arguments made against them. Let’s begin:

Feat #1: Reality was 3D, Now it’s 2D

Counter: “Space wasn’t shown. All that we see is the earth in 3-D art-style.”

Rebuttal: Irrelevant.

What was shown was reality being 3D. Earth is just the place reality was shown because it’s the center of the story. But reality was the thing being shown to be in 3D. Not “just the earth.”

Trying to insinuate that just because only the earth was shown to be in 3D therefore the rest of the universe wasn’t is not only baseless but totally nonsensical as well. When you go into outer space the art-style doesn’t magically shift into anime-like. No reality remains the same no matter the planet. Therefore the art-style of the universe matches that of the planet as is standard assumption.

Tldr; Earth being shown to be in 3D doesn’t matter and has no bearing on the argument because the focus isn’t on the earth. It’s on reality as a whole. Therefore this reality warping was done on the wider universe and not “just the earth.”

Feat #2: The stars are Shifting!

Counter: “The stars were never reality warped, they were just created because they’re closer to the earth.”

Rebuttal: Literal Headcanon.

There is no basis for this assertion. None whatsoever. The ability being referred to here (creation) is an ability not even listed on Shinra’s profile. That’s because it’s an ability that has never been demonstrated in the series. It’s only ever been reality warping. We even have a visual representation of what this reality warping looks like thanks to the Fire Force anime.

fire-force-moon.gif


As you can see only reality warping is done. No creation is involved. If that wasn’t enough, it straight up outright stated the stars are being reality warped and not created.

Right here it says the very physics of the world have been altered including the stars and the moon.

It’s been outright stated that reality warping is happening on the stars and moon. They are not being created just like how the moon wasn’t created and rather reality warped.

To further support this notion, here’s another statement directly stating Adolla is affecting the stars.

“Determine the future of the stars” is quite the direct way of saying Adolla is affecting the stars with its reality warping as well.

The position “the stars were closer to the earth therefore they were created.” Is once again baseless because the stare could’ve simply been reality warped closer to the earth as they changed into little blocks.

How do I know this? Well it’s because that’s exactly what Shinra did!

He reality warped the sun into a big dumb happy face and brought it closer to the earth as is notably seen in in the image as well as its sequel Soul Eater. So why on earth is it being presumed the stars were created instead of what’s been consistently shown and stated to be happening which is reality warping?

TLDR; This counter position is literally just fantasy. There’s actually nothing that supports this assertion. Nothing at all. It’s literal fanfiction.

In Summary:

The feats presented in the series overwhelmingly demonstrate reality warping on a far grander scale than planetary range.

The counter positions’ assertions of Adolla merging with only the planet is null and void due to the presence of multiple reality warping feats far extending past planetary and stellar ranges as well as the presence of statements outright saying the physics of the universe has been altered.

The assertion that the stars were simply created and not reality warped is completely unfounded, baseless, and nonsensical as this assertion can be found nowhere in the series and is directly contradicted by multiple statements outright stating that the stars have been reality warped and Adolla is a threat to the stars.

Due to the fact that the reality warping is caused by Adolla’s merger with reality, the usage of the term “world” as well as Adolla’s total merge is done through the wider universe as opposed to just the planet due to the fact that the reality warping extends to the universe and is not limited to just the earth.

Now that this has been said and done I would like to hear opinions/stances from people about which position is to be favored so I can formally count the agreements, disagreements, and neutral stances here.
Click to expand...
Okay obviously agree
Also honestly speaking the counter arguments to this are funny af.Its like the last crt and some people are just literally buying time to stop the inevitable from happening
 
So far there are only 2 disagreements in the whole thread while there are now nearly 20 agreements. Of those two, they are between pain and Arc.

Of those 2 individuals, I find Arc’s position/stances and arguments more proper and well defined because despite disagreeing with his interpretation and his arguments he still actively engages against my own position and (attempts) to disprove my arguments. On the other hand I feel as though Pain has actively disengaged with my arguments and simply either asserts positions without substantiating them or simply dismisses my stances/evidence without giving an explanation as to why it should be dismissed.

So kudos to @Arc7Kuroi for actually taking the time to respond to my position and arguments even though I heavily disagree with his assertions.
 
So in conclusion
Maitreya said:
So far there are only 2 disagreements in the whole thread while there are now nearly 20 agreements. Of those two, they are between pain and Arc.

Of those 2 individuals, I find Arc’s position/stances and arguments more proper and well defined because despite disagreeing with his interpretation and his arguments he still actively engages against my own position and (attempts) to disprove my arguments. On the other hand I feel as though Pain has actively disengaged with my arguments and simply either asserts positions without substantiating them or simply dismisses my stances/evidence without giving an explanation as to why it should be dismissed.

So kudos to @Arc7Kuroi for actually taking the time to respond to my position and arguments even though I heavily disagree with his assertions.
Click to expand...
So In conclusion Low2C FF?
 
Maitreya said:
You gotta be with this series.

You know how many threads were made tryin to upgrade this shit 🗿

Mf’s even tried making a rule about not upgrading the series. Fire Force permanent 5-B hell.
Click to expand...

but it didn't work, because apparently I made a rule based on a couple of threads, and some of them were mine (which at that time I didn't seriously do)is like,dumb.
 
At the very least I agree that the Adolla encompasses the entire universe, since they showed that the Fire Force world once looked like it does in our real life, and that would of course include everything in the cosmos.

The opposition is implying that it only encompasses the planet, which would mean that the rest of the universe still looks like ours, since that wasn't changed by the Adolla according to them, which is ridiculous and clearly not the case in the manga.
 
Therefir said:
The opposition is implying that it only encompasses the planet, which would mean that the rest of the universe still looks like ours, since that wasn't changed by the Adolla according to them, which is ridiculous and clearly not the case in the manga.
Click to expand...
so you agree?
 
Agree: @Maitreya @Arnoldstone18 @CloverDragon03 (agrees with universal range) @Deceived3596 (agrees with universal range) @Alexander @InfiniteDay @PowerToScale (agrees with universal range) @narutosage15 @CurrySenpai @Dalesean027 (agrees with universal range) @Shmooply @Halkum145 @chosen @SupremeGilgamesh @Shey (agrees with universal range) @Greatsage13th @Zoldyck59 @AKUTO123 @Helestias @Therefir (agrees with universal range) @eliaspower1234

Neutral: @CloverDragon03 (neutral, leaning towards agree for physical stats) @Deceived3596 (neutral/leaning towards agree on physical stats) @Dalesean027 (neutral, leaning towards agree on physical stats) @RandomGuy2345 @Shey (neutral on physical stats) @PowerToScale (neutral on physical stats) @TauanVictor (neutral on physical stats)

Disagree: @Arc7Kuroi @Pain_to12 @ImmortalDread

These are the current stances of everyone who’s commented thus far.

As always, if anyone’s position has changed or if I placed you wrong please let me know but as far as I can tell these are the current positions of everyone that has commented their stances. Further comments/stances from people who have not yet commented would also be much appreciated.
 
Last edited:
So far 2 staff have commented and agreed with the universal range and I believe right now Damage is currently going over the thread so when he gets the chance hopefully he’ll voice his thoughts on the matter.
 
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