Ya'll have no choice but to accept this revision as my welcome back (also late birthday!) present ;)

[Deceived3596]

We don't have a current "scale" for the layered-ness of Kamui dude. Like, we don't have a scale at all because no one has discussed the layered-ness of Kamui before until the creation of this thread.

We can, and are implementing that scale now, and it seems like people agree with Kamui having layered Spatial Manipulation. So either argue against the scale itself or stop commenting on this subject.

 

[Nierre]

Common KoK777 L

 

[KingogKings777]

We don't have a current "scale" for the layered-ness of Kamui dude. Like, we don't have a scale at all because no one has discussed the layered-ness of Kamui before until the creation of this thread.

Then make a CRT for it being layered or include it in this CRT. It's that simple.

We can, and are implementing that scale now, and it seems like people agree with Kamui having layered Spatial Manipulation. So either argue against the scale itself or stop commenting.

So we now accept scaling that wasn't accepted by the site to scale them or the current CRT they are being discussed in?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Looks good. I agree

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

or include it in this CRT

We can debate if Kamui is layered spatial manip in this thread if you think Kamui contradicts this CRT proposals

 

[KingogKings777]

Shit lets also give Guy layered spatial manip at this point for bending space and the TSB.

 

[Ped2018]

Shit lets also give Guy layered spatial manip at this point for bending space and the TSB.

Ok

 

[Deceived3596]

You're coping so hard right now.

Sure, let's give Guy layered Spatial Manipulation, if he has the feats, he has the feats.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

THE KING IS BACK

 

[Arkenis]

Shit lets also give Guy layered spatial manip at this point for bending space and the TSB.

You trying to point out "lol but they space manip it now so contradict", just seems like this was never noticed by a majority of people that the spatial manipulation in verse actually had layers to it. All you're doing is giving more layers to the spatial manip for the verse lmao. But continue ig. FRA

 

[KingogKings777]

This is honestly a bit silly, and I think it's entirely due to a fundamental misunderstanding of how the TSBs actually function.
You've provided this example (chapter 669) to support your argument. Let's examine the first scan to begin with. Minato making contact with the TSBs and teleporting with them being used as a counter is a bit laughable tbh. The way the TSBs' Ninjutsu Nullification functions is through physical contact with the spheres. In this example, there's no physical contact being made with ANY Jutsu. The TSBs are making contact with Minato himself, not the FTG Jutsu.

Yeah, no clue why I used FTG when Kamui was enough to get rid of spacetime manip for regular TSBs.

In the second scan, we have Kakashi teleporting part of the TSO with Kamui. Again, this doesn't really say anything as far a limitation is concerned. Kamui can't be negated because the Jutsu isn't and can't make physical contact with the TSO. Kamui, as a Justu is initiated in the user's eye, and is based on creating a spatial barrier around whatever the user is looking at. The barrier then teleports the object(s) inside it to the Kamui dimension. So again, there's no physical contact being made with any Jutsu here. Like, what's the TSB supposed to negate here? Space?

Okay so you saying this.

Like, what's the TSB supposed to negate here? Space?

But claiming it can **** with space, apparently? That's some crazy logic but more power to you.

This right here I kinda got issues with maybe.

is based on creating a spatial barrier around whatever the user is looking at. The barrier then teleports the object(s) inside it to the Kamui dimension

So this is weird tbh. Cause this is the last databook entry for Kamui which states there is no barrier mentioned. Only that the thing the eye is fixated on

Which is weird cause of the manga chapter 276 and a previous databook entry. So which one takes precedence the old information or the new?
I'll see if I can get the raw databook scan for it just to make sure. Since I do got the raws for 276.
Got the last databook scan checked out and it says nothing about a barrier. And when he explains Kamui there's no mention of a barrier too.

So yes, it's very important to understand the nature of the TSBs negation, and how it functions, as well as the nature of the Jutsu it's interacting with. Jutsu are extremely varied in nature, and not all of them can be physically interacted with in the conventional sense, which is the only criteria for the TSBs negation to function. The Erasure, and all of the TSBs' other properties function on this exact principle, which people need to comprehend before nitpicking examples from the manga.

So for TSBs to work it has to physically interact with stuff now? Okay?

The Erasure, and all of the TSBs' other properties function on this exact principle,

This right here is some good shit tbh.

So what am I proposing here? Well, basically for all of the changes to be reversed.

So you saying that the limited power nullification should go back to regular power nullification? If so yikes.

The original OP wasn't very well-made and shouldn't have been accepted in the first place.

Damn shame it did.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Ok

 

[Jebxtz]

Agree, Welcome back and HBD

 

[KingogKings777]

Also, how are people getting it layered when it was only a Possibly Space-Time Manipulation before? Are we now saying it's concrete enough to get rid of the Possibly rating?

 

[Excellence616]

Make sense. I agree

 

[Damage3245]

Neutral for now, following this thread.

 

[karzen]

Agree.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Disagree because you ghosted me on our Naruto date

sorry i dont make the rules smh

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Disagree because you ghosted me on our Naruto date

sorry i dont make the rules smh

 

[Deceived3596]

Disagree because you ghosted me on our Naruto date

sorry i dont make the rules smh

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

But I agreed to your crt? It seems to me you're just trying to argue for argument's sake since you want me to disagree and argue why now.

If you make weird claims, people will respond to them. It's as simple as that.

Yeah, no clue why I used FTG when Kamui was enough to get rid of spacetime manip for regular TSBs.

Evidently not.

Okay so you saying this.

But claiming it can **** with space, apparently? That's some crazy logic but more power to you.

Bro, do you even know what you're replying to at this point? You're confusing my arguments for the Power Null with the Spatial Manip ones. These are two different, separate abilities of the TSBs. There is indeed nothing to negate there, as it's just space folding on itself, not some tangible Jutsu the TSB can physically interact with. You get the idea?
As for this being used as an argument against the Spatial Manip, that's equally silly. You're arguing that because another ability's (Kamui) Spatial hax is affecting this object (the TSB) with Spatial hax, then that somehow discredits the TSB potentially having it. That's nonsense. An object or a character having an ability, but still being affected by said ability does not really contradict them having said ability. Having an ability does not guarantee immunity to said ability. You can be a Time hax user and still be affected by time hax.
Then there's the matter of layered hax, which Kamui may very well be as others have mentioned, especially because there is precedence for the argument, but that's another discussion altogether.

This right here I kinda got issues with maybe.

So this is weird tbh. Cause this is the last databook entry for Kamui which states there is no barrier mentioned. Only that the thing the eye is fixated on

Which is weird cause of the manga chapter 276 and a previous databook entry. So which one takes precedence the old information or the new?
I'll see if I can get the raw databook scan for it just to make sure. Since I do got the raws for 276.
Got the last databook scan checked out and it says nothing about a barrier. And when he explains Kamui there's no mention of a barrier too.

The new information does not contradict the old one, like at all.

So for TSBs to work it has to physically interact with stuff now? Okay?

They always have? Like literally. If you somehow didn't know that, then I question how you thought yourself qualified enough to revise an ability you don't understand the basic mechanics of.

This right here is some good shit tbh.

Thanks G, I thought so too.

So you saying that the limited power nullification should go back to regular power nullification? If so yikes.

L

Damn shame it did.

Yessir, it is a damn shame.

 

[Damage3245]

So the only changes from this would be to add "Possibly Space Manipulation" to the TSB's, and remove the "Limited" from "Limited Power Nullification" for them?

 

[KingogKings777]

They always have? Like literally. If you somehow didn't know that, then I question how you thought yourself qualified enough to revise an ability you don't understand the basic mechanics of.

So let me get this straight you claiming they should have possibly spatial manip for those 2 statements but now are saying they have to physically interact with something to work? How they they going to delete space when they can't phyically interact with it?

 

[KingogKings777]

So the only changes from this would be to add "Possibly Space Manipulation" to the TSB's, and remove the "Limited" from "Limited Power Nullification" for them?

Yeah, disagree with the removal of limited power null though. Fine with a possibly spatial manip.

 

[Godernet]

So let me get this straight you claiming they should have possibly spatial manip for those 2 statements but now are saying they have to physically interact with something to work? How they they going to delete space when they can't phyically interact with it?

I think you are confusing yourself with how the ability works. The TSO can be a tangible substance and still erase space. All Slayer was saying is that a spatial ability needs to touch the TSO for it to work which is in line with how the TSO interacts with every other jutsu. the statements support this.

Yeah, disagree with the removal of limited power null though.

Why would we keep limited power null if the only reason it was accepted is being removed?

 

[KingogKings777]

I think you are confusing yourself with how the ability works.

Maybe. I'm just here arguing for argument's sake instead of continuing the CSGO grind to gold 2.

The TSO can be a tangible substance and still erase space. All Slayer was saying is that a spatial ability needs to touch the TSO for it to work which is in line with how the TSO interacts with everything else. the statements support this.

So they can delete space and interact with things like space? But their susceptible to spatial attacks when they should be able to delete the space involved in those attacks?

Meaning Kamui could very well just be layered Spatial manipulation.

If this wasn't possibly then yeah and Guy should also get it. Y'all think its some cope when I actually do think he should get it.

Why would we keep limited power null if the only reason it was accepted is being removed?

So even though it can't nullify all ninjutsu we should accept that it isn't limited?

 

[Vexzito]

Kaguya's dimensions were described using 時空間 which means time-space on four different occasions, three times by Obito and once by Kakashi. Obviously, since Kaguya was going to destroy and remake the dimensions (which are time-spaces) with ETSO, I think space-time manipulation should stay.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The fabric of reality is spacetime yes. But Zetsu only says Kaguya is erasing/creating the space rather than space and time. Hence why spatial manip is being argued over space time manip.

 

[Deceived3596]

Low 2-C Kaguya FRA

 

[Popted2]

agree with Op FRA

 

[KingogKings777]

Low 2-C Kaguya FRA

Blame Arc for killing it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So the only changes from this would be to add "Possibly Space Manipulation" to the TSB's, and remove the "Limited" from "Limited Power Nullification" for them?

Pretty much.

 

[Stryker861]

Blame Arc for killing it.

Well actually kaguya massively outscales kuruma who is capable of turning the entire world to ash. World = universe. Kuruma 3A

 

[KingogKings777]

Well actually kaguya massively outscales kuruma who is capable of turning the entire world to ash. World = universe. Kuruma 3A

Can't they were in a spaceship.

 

[Damage3245]

Pretty much.

That's fine with me. I'm in a case where I'm fine with or without it tbh, but this proposal seems fair enough to go through.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Happy to have you back, Uchihaslayer! Made me happy when I saw you'd finally posted a thread after so long. Hope whatever was going on with you that caused such a long hiatus has been sorted out.

 

[Ped2018]

Happy to have you back, Uchihaslayer! Made me happy when I saw you'd finally posted a thread after so long. Hope whatever was going on with you that caused such a long hiatus has been sorted out.

Check his message wall

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Check his message wall

Thank you for directing me there. Should've figured it out myself, guess that's dumb on me. And based on the evidence provided, I'll agree with the thread.

 

[Ped2018]

This can be applied

although it's obvious

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, now that we have 4 staff approvals, in addition to several knowledgeable members, this can be applied. I'll see about applying the changes later.