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Ya'll have no choice but to accept this revision as my welcome back (also late birthday!) present ;)

We don't have a current "scale" for the layered-ness of Kamui dude. Like, we don't have a scale at all because no one has discussed the layered-ness of Kamui before until the creation of this thread.

We can, and are implementing that scale now, and it seems like people agree with Kamui having layered Spatial Manipulation. So either argue against the scale itself or stop commenting on this subject.
 
Deceived3596 said:
We don't have a current "scale" for the layered-ness of Kamui dude. Like, we don't have a scale at all because no one has discussed the layered-ness of Kamui before until the creation of this thread.
Click to expand...
Then make a CRT for it being layered or include it in this CRT. It's that simple.
Deceived3596 said:
We can, and are implementing that scale now, and it seems like people agree with Kamui having layered Spatial Manipulation. So either argue against the scale itself or stop commenting.
Click to expand...
So we now accept scaling that wasn't accepted by the site to scale them or the current CRT they are being discussed in?
 
Shit lets also give Guy layered spatial manip at this point for bending space and the TSB.
8TsouzL.png
 
KingogKings777 said:
Shit lets also give Guy layered spatial manip at this point for bending space and the TSB.
8TsouzL.png
Click to expand...
You trying to point out "lol but they space manip it now so contradict", just seems like this was never noticed by a majority of people that the spatial manipulation in verse actually had layers to it. All you're doing is giving more layers to the spatial manip for the verse lmao. But continue ig. FRA
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
This is honestly a bit silly, and I think it's entirely due to a fundamental misunderstanding of how the TSBs actually function.
You've provided this example (chapter 669) to support your argument. Let's examine the first scan to begin with. Minato making contact with the TSBs and teleporting with them being used as a counter is a bit laughable tbh. The way the TSBs' Ninjutsu Nullification functions is through physical contact with the spheres. In this example, there's no physical contact being made with ANY Jutsu. The TSBs are making contact with Minato himself, not the FTG Jutsu.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no clue why I used FTG when Kamui was enough to get rid of spacetime manip for regular TSBs.
UchihaSlayer96 said:
In the second scan, we have Kakashi teleporting part of the TSO with Kamui. Again, this doesn't really say anything as far a limitation is concerned. Kamui can't be negated because the Jutsu isn't and can't make physical contact with the TSO. Kamui, as a Justu is initiated in the user's eye, and is based on creating a spatial barrier around whatever the user is looking at. The barrier then teleports the object(s) inside it to the Kamui dimension. So again, there's no physical contact being made with any Jutsu here. Like, what's the TSB supposed to negate here? Space?
Click to expand...
Okay so you saying this.
Like, what's the TSB supposed to negate here? Space?
Click to expand...
But claiming it can **** with space, apparently? That's some crazy logic but more power to you.

This right here I kinda got issues with maybe.
is based on creating a spatial barrier around whatever the user is looking at. The barrier then teleports the object(s) inside it to the Kamui dimension
Click to expand...
So this is weird tbh. Cause this is the last databook entry for Kamui which states there is no barrier mentioned. Only that the thing the eye is fixated on
SkV8xLcl.png

Which is weird cause of the manga chapter 276 and a previous databook entry. So which one takes precedence the old information or the new?
I'll see if I can get the raw databook scan for it just to make sure. Since I do got the raws for 276.
Got the last databook scan checked out and it says nothing about a barrier. And when he explains Kamui there's no mention of a barrier too.
UchihaSlayer96 said:
So yes, it's very important to understand the nature of the TSBs negation, and how it functions, as well as the nature of the Jutsu it's interacting with. Jutsu are extremely varied in nature, and not all of them can be physically interacted with in the conventional sense, which is the only criteria for the TSBs negation to function. The Erasure, and all of the TSBs' other properties function on this exact principle, which people need to comprehend before nitpicking examples from the manga.
Click to expand...
So for TSBs to work it has to physically interact with stuff now? Okay?
The Erasure, and all of the TSBs' other properties function on this exact principle,
Click to expand...
This right here is some good shit tbh.
UchihaSlayer96 said:
So what am I proposing here? Well, basically for all of the changes to be reversed.
Click to expand...
So you saying that the limited power nullification should go back to regular power nullification? If so yikes.
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The original OP wasn't very well-made and shouldn't have been accepted in the first place.
Click to expand...
Damn shame it did.
 
Last edited:
Also, how are people getting it layered when it was only a Possibly Space-Time Manipulation before? Are we now saying it's concrete enough to get rid of the Possibly rating?
 
KingogKings777 said:
But I agreed to your crt? It seems to me you're just trying to argue for argument's sake since you want me to disagree and argue why now.
Click to expand...
If you make weird claims, people will respond to them. It's as simple as that.
KingogKings777 said:
Yeah, no clue why I used FTG when Kamui was enough to get rid of spacetime manip for regular TSBs.
Click to expand...
Evidently not.
KingogKings777 said:
Okay so you saying this.

But claiming it can **** with space, apparently? That's some crazy logic but more power to you.
Click to expand...
Bro, do you even know what you're replying to at this point? You're confusing my arguments for the Power Null with the Spatial Manip ones. These are two different, separate abilities of the TSBs. There is indeed nothing to negate there, as it's just space folding on itself, not some tangible Jutsu the TSB can physically interact with. You get the idea?
As for this being used as an argument against the Spatial Manip, that's equally silly. You're arguing that because another ability's (Kamui) Spatial hax is affecting this object (the TSB) with Spatial hax, then that somehow discredits the TSB potentially having it. That's nonsense. An object or a character having an ability, but still being affected by said ability does not really contradict them having said ability. Having an ability does not guarantee immunity to said ability. You can be a Time hax user and still be affected by time hax.
Then there's the matter of layered hax, which Kamui may very well be as others have mentioned, especially because there is precedence for the argument, but that's another discussion altogether.
KingogKings777 said:
This right here I kinda got issues with maybe.

So this is weird tbh. Cause this is the last databook entry for Kamui which states there is no barrier mentioned. Only that the thing the eye is fixated on
SkV8xLcl.png

Which is weird cause of the manga chapter 276 and a previous databook entry. So which one takes precedence the old information or the new?
I'll see if I can get the raw databook scan for it just to make sure. Since I do got the raws for 276.
Got the last databook scan checked out and it says nothing about a barrier. And when he explains Kamui there's no mention of a barrier too.
Click to expand...
The new information does not contradict the old one, like at all.
KingogKings777 said:
So for TSBs to work it has to physically interact with stuff now? Okay?
Click to expand...
They always have? Like literally. If you somehow didn't know that, then I question how you thought yourself qualified enough to revise an ability you don't understand the basic mechanics of.
KingogKings777 said:
This right here is some good shit tbh.
Click to expand...
Thanks G, I thought so too.
KingogKings777 said:
So you saying that the limited power nullification should go back to regular power nullification? If so yikes.
Click to expand...
L
KingogKings777 said:
Damn shame it did.
Click to expand...
Yessir, it is a damn shame.
 
So the only changes from this would be to add "Possibly Space Manipulation" to the TSB's, and remove the "Limited" from "Limited Power Nullification" for them?
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
They always have? Like literally. If you somehow didn't know that, then I question how you thought yourself qualified enough to revise an ability you don't understand the basic mechanics of.
Click to expand...
So let me get this straight you claiming they should have possibly spatial manip for those 2 statements but now are saying they have to physically interact with something to work? How they they going to delete space when they can't phyically interact with it?
 
Damage3245 said:
So the only changes from this would be to add "Possibly Space Manipulation" to the TSB's, and remove the "Limited" from "Limited Power Nullification" for them?
Click to expand...
Yeah, disagree with the removal of limited power null though. Fine with a possibly spatial manip.
 
Last edited:
KingogKings777 said:
So let me get this straight you claiming they should have possibly spatial manip for those 2 statements but now are saying they have to physically interact with something to work? How they they going to delete space when they can't phyically interact with it?
Click to expand...
I think you are confusing yourself with how the ability works. The TSO can be a tangible substance and still erase space. All Slayer was saying is that a spatial ability needs to touch the TSO for it to work which is in line with how the TSO interacts with every other jutsu. the statements support this.
KingogKings777 said:
Yeah, disagree with the removal of limited power null though.
Click to expand...
Why would we keep limited power null if the only reason it was accepted is being removed?
 
Godernet said:
I think you are confusing yourself with how the ability works.
Click to expand...
Maybe. I'm just here arguing for argument's sake instead of continuing the CSGO grind to gold 2.
Godernet said:
The TSO can be a tangible substance and still erase space. All Slayer was saying is that a spatial ability needs to touch the TSO for it to work which is in line with how the TSO interacts with everything else. the statements support this.
Click to expand...
So they can delete space and interact with things like space? But their susceptible to spatial attacks when they should be able to delete the space involved in those attacks?
Godernet said:
Meaning Kamui could very well just be layered Spatial manipulation.
Click to expand...
If this wasn't possibly then yeah and Guy should also get it. Y'all think its some cope when I actually do think he should get it.
Godernet said:
Why would we keep limited power null if the only reason it was accepted is being removed?
Click to expand...
So even though it can't nullify all ninjutsu we should accept that it isn't limited?
 
Kaguya's dimensions were described using 時空間 which means time-space on four different occasions, three times by Obito and once by Kakashi. Obviously, since Kaguya was going to destroy and remake the dimensions (which are time-spaces) with ETSO, I think space-time manipulation should stay.
 
Happy to have you back, Uchihaslayer! Made me happy when I saw you'd finally posted a thread after so long. Hope whatever was going on with you that caused such a long hiatus has been sorted out.
 
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