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Not yet, Sparkle, not yet....(Naruto: Part I Speed Revision)

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KingTempest said:
Jonin level is barely about ability either. Genin Obito was on the level of Jonin Kakashi. It's just even higher leadership
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Obito was a chunin, and he'd just awakened his Sharingan which allowed him to fight in sync with Kakashi, that's what made him jonin level (probably, either that or he was bordering on jonin level already and this pushed him over the edge) and obviously there was no time for him to be promoted in the middle of a mission.
 
"He was bordering jonin level already and they had no time to promote him" do you not know how people become jonin?

It's not by strength it's by leadership. If it was by strength, Naruto would've been a jonin post Pain
 
KingTempest said:
"He was bordering jonin level already and they had no time to promote him" do you not know how people become jonin?

It's not by strength it's by leadership. If it was by strength, Naruto would've been a jonin post Pain
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Leadership may be a part of it, but you're not gonna be a jonin just for leadership abilities if your combat abilities are ass. There's a reason the mission ranking system is divided by rank. The fanbook also pretty much states the ranking system is primarily based on power. But you of course still need to pass the tests of ranking up to become a jonin, which is why Naruto didn't become one. Pretty much what I said to Damage. Rank is a minimum since you need to be strong enough to become it, but not a maximum, since you can not rank up if you don't follow the procedure necessary to do so.
 
KingTempest said:
Yall really don't read Naruto huh
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None of those show Tayuya no-diffing Raidou on her own.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Leadership may be a part of it, but you're not gonna be a jonin just for leadership abilities if your combat abilities are ass. There's a reason the mission ranking system is divided by rank. The fanbook also pretty much states the ranking system is primarily based on power. But you of course still need to pass the tests of ranking up to become a jonin, which is why Naruto didn't become one. Pretty much what I said to Damage. Rank is a minimum since you need to be strong enough to become it, but not a maximum, since you can not rank up if you don't follow the procedure necessary to do so.
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So what you're saying is that you need to be at a certain level of power to pass all the tests Jonin do, or something similar to that?
 
KingTempest said:
Jonin level is barely about ability either. Genin Obito was on the level of Jonin Kakashi. It's just even higher leadership
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Do you disagree with the new changes for the Jonin characters as well? (Just double-checking)
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Honestly, probably best to make a calc group thread about that, rather than clog this one up, plus this just isn’t the thread to evaluate calcs. Cuz while everything you said checks out, I can see CGM taking issues with either A) assuming a semi-arbitrary PTotal or B) using the feat of it destroying rock as means to get PTotal and then calc speed. I’m not bringing up any issues with the two so don’t respond to me like you’re defending your calc, I don’t care. I’m merely saying “nice, but this isn’t the thread for it, a CGT is, and here are some things to prep for if you want to argue it”.
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Oh
Fair enough, but like, can someone else do it? I'm kinda lazy frfr
Make the Mach 0.7 the low end and the Mach 20 the high end-
 
I agree that Chunin level shouldn't have bare minimum speed given that the qualities to become one arent exclusive to a prerequisite stat.

Jounin having a tier for those who only meet one or some of the requirements(tokubetsu jounin) along with becoming one not being as simple as showing out in a tournament makes it seem like there is some kind of minimum floor for them. along with all the statements and implicaiton in the series making it seem like because X is a jounin they should be able to do this.

I'm fine with either, or even at least HH+ possibly/likely MHS for now if both sides are still skeptical but willing.
 
Imma be honest with ya'll, I could not care less about the discussion being had right now. Whether these Jonin are HHS+ or MHS does not matter to me in the slightest. So decide which one it is amongst yourselves, and let me know so I can apply it and wrap this thread up.

Tracer and I have already applied everything else.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Imma be honest with ya'll, I could not care less about the discussion being had right now. Whether these Jonin are HHS+ or MHS does not matter to me in the slightest. So decide which one it is amongst yourselves, and let me know so I can apply it and wrap this thread up.
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At least High Hypersonic+, likely Massively Hypersonic is based tbh.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Imma be honest with ya'll, I could not care less about the discussion being had right now. Whether these Jonin are HHS+ or MHS does not matter to me in the slightest. So decide which one it is amongst yourselves, and let me know so I can apply it and wrap this thread up.

Tracer and I have already applied everything else.
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They could scale to Kakashi since Raido fought Kakuzu
 
KingTempest said:
So why is Naruto still a genin in Shippuden
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👇
MinatoSparkle said:
Chunin can be below Genin, but that just means the Genin are Chunin level. Chunin level is not about actual rank at all and just the abilities of the ninja. In other words, rank is a minimum (you need to at least be a certain level to quality for that rank) and not a maximum (since if you don't take the test like P2 Naruto, you can be Kage level and still be a Genin), while rank level is both a minimum and a maximum, so Neji not being jonin level should mean his stats are below that threshold.
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MinatoSparkle said:
Rank is a minimum since you need to be strong enough to become it, but not a maximum, since you can not rank up if you don't follow the procedure necessary to do so.
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It's like how you can be NBA level at basketball but not be recognized as such unless you go through a screening process or whatever it takes to get into the NBA
 
That is the stupidest shit ever

Jonin level is "above all people below" but them the vast majority of people below actually somehow exceed their rank
 
Literally every genin in Boruto is Jonin level.
Every genin in Naruto is chunin or jonin level.

All of it is just stupid.

Genin is "beginner ninja who haven't passed chunin exams"
Chunin is "every ninja who passed the chunin exams"
Jonin is "everybody else who is a jonin for some mysterious reason"

Raido could tag Kakazu. Aoba just watched Asuma get killed and was certain he and Raido could hold off Hidan and Kakazu. Kurenai could block a kick from Itachi.
Please stop trying to use the outlier genin as the scaling tools for the top characters and just scale them to their feats.
SlendVeny said:
It's the Square-Rectangle thing.
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I'm saying why wasn't he ever nominated at that point. If all it takes to be jonin was "be strong", Naruto would've been a jonin at that point.
Shit, Neji was a jonin.
 
Damage3245 said:
Nothing explicit there about speed.
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"Ability and unique skills determine a shinobi's title!!"
"These [ranks] are given out based on raw strength and capability"
It may not literally use the term speed, but considering how fundamental an aspect of combat that speed is for basically any ninja, it would absolutely be included in a statement about combat ability.
KingTempest said:
That is the stupidest shit ever

Jonin level is "above all people below" but them the vast majority of people below actually somehow exceed their rank
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It's not the vast majority whatsoever, just the relevant characters cause obviously they have to be strong to be relevant.
KingTempest said:
Literally every genin in Boruto is Jonin level.
Every genin in Naruto is chunin or jonin level.
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Plenty of the Konoha 11 were genin level, and really the only genin in Naruto who were jonin level were Choji with a very temporary 100x amp and Naruto.
KingTempest said:
All of it is just stupid.

Genin is "beginner ninja who haven't passed chunin exams"
Chunin is "every ninja who passed the chunin exams"
Jonin is "everybody else who is a jonin for some mysterious reason"

Raido could tag Kakazu. Aoba just watched Asuma get killed and was certain he and Raido could hold off Hidan and Kakazu. Kurenai could block a kick from Itachi.
Please stop trying to use the outlier genin as the scaling tools for the top characters and just scale them to their feats.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with using feats of course, but there's also nothing wrong with a baseline jonin tier using Word of God's opinion on what chunin level is. It's also consistent with Sasuke being stated Chunin level despite being stronger than 5th Gate Lee who's above Neji.
KingTempest said:
I'm saying why wasn't he ever nominated at that point. If all it takes to be jonin was "be strong", Naruto would've been a jonin at that point.
Shit, Neji was a jonin.
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Cause he didn't have the chance to take the Chunin Exams. I don't know if becoming jonin is as simple as being considered strong enough, but you definitely can't become one without first taking the Chunin Exams. Pretty much what Kakashi told Naruto in that filler after the Naruto vs Sasuke battle.
 
KingTempest said:
I'm saying why wasn't he ever nominated at that point. If all it takes to be jonin was "be strong", Naruto would've been a jonin at that point.
Click to expand...
I'm starting to think you're actively misunderstanding what I said. I mean that there's a baseline "Jonin level" strength. Every Jonin is at that level unless they cheated or something. Not everyone is nominated because of nepotism or something. Not all people that are as strong as a "Jonin level" character are one, but all Jonin characters should meet this baseline "Jonin level." I am not saying Jonin are entirely strength-based, there's an assload of paperwork. Naruto was like Bijuu level, that doesn't mean I think he's a... that's actually a bad example.

All Jonin should meet a certain baseline, and be above characters referred to as below a "Jonin level." This does not mean they're purely there because of strength, that is just one part of being a Jonin. They're also smart and shit, but they're strong to a certain degree too.

That is what I was saying.
 
SlendVeny said:
I'm starting to think you're actively misunderstanding what I said. I mean that there's a baseline "Jonin level" strength. Every Jonin is at that level unless they cheated or something. Not everyone is nominated because of nepotism or something. Not all people that are as strong as a "Jonin level" character are one, but all Jonin characters should meet this baseline "Jonin level." I am not saying Jonin are entirely strength-based, there's an assload of paperwork. Naruto was like Bijuu level, that doesn't mean I think he's a... that's actually a bad example.

All Jonin should meet a certain baseline, and be above characters referred to as below a "Jonin level." This does not mean they're purely there because of strength, that is just one part of being a Jonin. They're also smart and shit, but they're strong to a certain degree too.

That is what I was saying.
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If I get what you're saying there is a level of strength level required to even qualify to be jonin level then for you to be actually given the title you have to take tests part to show your proficiency in battle, strategy, the paperwork part. But like to be even considered that level you should be at a certain bench mark which is superior to genius and chunins.
Now there may be some genin and chunin who are at this strength level or ridiculously higher but haven't gone through the paperwork aspect and shit so they won't be recognised as jonin i.e naruto for example.
Is that it?
 
Yeah, like, after the War Naruto was quite literally the strongest Shinobi in history. He was a world famous hero who saved the world and united all Shinobi.
............And he still wasn't immediately promoted to Jōnin. There was a whole ass process and he had to work for it. Ya can never beat bureaucracy, I guess.

So, yes, the fact that there are Jōnin level people who aren't Jōnin isn't actually an argument against "Jōnin level" being a thing.
 
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karo_senpaii said:
If I get what you're saying there is a level of strength level required to even qualify to be jonin level then for you to be actually given the title you have to take tests part to show your proficiency in battle, strategy, the paperwork part. But like to be even considered that level you should be at a certain bench mark which is superior to genius and chunins.
Now there may be some genin and chunin who are at this strength level or ridiculously higher but haven't gone through the paperwork aspect and shit so they won't be recognised as jonin i.e naruto for example.
Is that it?
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Yes. Thank you.
 
I think DDM and Griffin technically cast their votes before we changed the ratings to MHS (they were HHS+ initially), so maybe we should ask them to evaluate this bit and put this to rest. Someone (not me) should make a summary of the arguments, and then I can ping them to evaluate it.
 
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