Tensura LN revision: Possible Regeneration downgrade for rimuru tempest

[Greatsage13th]

This feels like Twitter all of a sudden

 

[Worthless]

By the context of the statement endless regeneration wasn't erased. It's as simple as that, there's no claim to prove.
No context was given about reviving endless regeneration before rimuru regenerating.
Its an extraordinary claim on their part to assume rimuru can recreate skills when not existing without any fetus or statements of him being able to do so.

Nah bro dstroying their physical body and soul would also results of their skills being destroyed it's a common knowledge in tensura also it doesn't recreate skill it recreate the body and soul essentially recreating the skill in the process cause skills are also part of their physical and soul rimuru even said that you can gain someone inherent skill by eating their body.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

First of all, anyone is allowed to participate in any CRT (unless they are thread banned obviously).

I never said they couldn’t.

Secondly, just stop with the overgeneralisation. I like the Tensura verse fairly much, I just don't scale it. I also know other Maou Gakuin supporters who also support Tensura. So stop imagining that Maou Gakuin supporters have some kind of vendetta against Tensura. Sure, some members might have a vendetta against Tensura, just as some members have a vendetta against Maou Gakuin, but overgeneralising that to "X supporters dislike X verse because X member disagreed with me" is just wrong and sad.

If it doesn’t apply to you, then you have no reason to get offended — at all. I would say the exact same if Slime supporters did the same to Maou Gakuin, simple as that. I know I don’t gaze over their CRTs, because I don’t care about the series, not done bad or good.

Finally, stop with this constant appeal to motive, appeal to popularity, and poisoning the well.

Where? Please show me where I’ve done any of that, because I’ve still responded faithfully to all the arguments into the context of the series with evidence.

From what I see in this thread, the burden of proof is entirely on you, as you need to prove the claim (assumption) that Rimuru can regen after being completely erased (including his intrinsic skills).

As I already have, on multiple occasions.

Beelzebub was destroyed. He brought it back. Raphael believes he would come back if hit, thus, we can conclude he could, as he proved Melt Slash was never a threat with Beelzebub.

Do not reply to me in this thread. You can continue this conversation on my message wall if you really still have something to say.

I don’t care about what you ask, truthfully, report me if it bothers you. I’ve said my piece and had my peace a long while ago, and I’m waiting for staff. I don’t give a damn if you call it “your bs”, nor did I ever say these guys hate TenSura, at any point.

 

[imZer0Null]

I never said they couldn’t.



If it doesn’t apply to you, then you have no reason to get offended — at all. I would say the exact same if Slime supporters did the same to Maou Gakuin, simple as that. I know I don’t gaze over their CRTs, because I don’t care about the series, not done bad or good.


Where? Please show me where I’ve done any of that, because I’ve still responded faithfully to all the arguments into the context of the series with evidence.


As I already have, on multiple occasions.


I don’t care about what you ask, truthfully, report me if it bothers you. I’ve said my piece and had my peace a long while ago, and I’m waiting for staff. I don’t give a damn if you call it “your bs”, nor did I ever say these guys hate TenSura, at any point.

Yikes.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Yikes, indeed. Now, if we’re done with this spiel, can we patiently go back to waiting for staff, or do we want to continue this argument?

 

[imZer0Null]

Yikes, indeed. Now, if we’re done with this spiel, can we patiently go back to waiting for staff, or do we want to continue this argument?

There's no argument between us. Just stop with the fallacies and overgeneralisation. That's pretty simple, so even you should be able to do that.
If you REALLY don't wanna continue this, then just stop responding lol.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

There's no argument between us. Just stop with the fallacies and overgeneralisation. That's pretty simple, so even you should be able to do that.
If you REALLY don't wanna continue this, then just stop responding lol.

I can continue if you want, I’m asking if you want to stop or resume — simple. I made my claims based off my observations & participation on Slime CRTs, and what’s happened here has only reinforced that.

Excluding you, since you make it clear you don’t, which boils into my last point (if it doesn’t apply, you shouldn’t feel offended).

 

[imZer0Null]

I can continue if you want, I’m asking if you want to stop or resume — simple. I made my claims based off my observations & participation on Slime CRTs, and what’s happened here has only reinforced that.

Excluding you, since you make it clear you don’t, which boils into my last point (if it doesn’t apply, you shouldn’t feel offended).

Do you mean your overgeneralised claims have just been reinforced in this thread after debating with only two people who just so happened to be Maou Gakuin supporters..? Because that would be a bit concerning.
In any case, like I said earlier idc about the outcome of this thread, so I'm fine with us stopping the conversation here. I especially don't like derailing threads after all.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Do you mean your overgeneralised claims have just been reinforced in this thread after debating with only two people who just so happened to be Maou Gakuin supporters..? Because that would be a bit concerning.
In any case, like I said earlier idc about the outcome of this thread, so I'm fine with us stopping the conversation here. I especially don't like derailing threads after all.

This isn’t the first CRT it’s happened, in any case. But if you don’t like derailing, then, we can stop here. It’s that simple.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

In the meantime, I’m leaving my comprehensive, final argument.

Hinata hits Rimuru with Melt Slash, the sword-art version of Disintegration:

She casts “Disintegration”. This power begins to gather on the empty left hand of Hinata, giving off a bright shine.

The sparkling particles intertwine to create a fantasy-like scenery.

Then Hinata imbues that light onto the body of her Moonlight Rapier.

—Her left hand slowly caresses the body of her sword.

The preparation is done.

She has infused her strongest magic with her sword art.

This is the technique that shall slash through all things in the world.

“Come now, have you made your resolve?”

“Bring it on!”

“Then take this—Melt Slash!”

Hinata finishes her words and turns into a beam of light, quickly approaching Rimuru. (Volume 7)

Disintegration targets the cells, and souls:

“Let me provide you a prayer to the divine. I hope and desire for the power of the holy spirits. Listen to my appeal and overcome all in your way! Disintegration!!” The request, delivered in Hinata’s beautiful voice, was granted. The resulting show of force was literally divine, enough to crush all physical and spiritual presences within its defined space. It was the ultimate in targeted, destructive magic, emitting flashes of white light as it poured from Hinata’s hands to the circle. It sped out at thousands of miles per hour, almost at light speed, as its holy power made cells and souls vanish without a trace. It was more than enough to make the Glutton disappear, not affecting the space around it at all. (Volume 5)

This is important, because all physical matters in TenSura is composed of information:

An ‘information particle’ was a substance smaller than even ‘spirit particle,’ and was close to having no mass at all. All matter in the world had to contain ‘information particles.’ (Volume 11)

As well as the soul:

Whether it belongs to a human being or a monster, all souls have a set quality and quantity. It is composed of matter known as data particles, and through managing and applying certain forces to them, it’s possible to control life and death to some extent.
The souls of plants and animals house only a very tiny amount of energy. Human souls, meanwhile, have tons and tons. We’ve already confirmed that a certain amount is given to everyone equally, and the ability to fully hardness that soul energy leads to the manifestation of soul powers—or what we call special skills. This data, engraved in your soul since birth, is the source of those powers.
So is the data written directly onto this energy? Not exactly. First, there’s the ego, a set of amorphous wavelengths within the soul, and the group of data particles that surrounds it. This is known as the heart, and that’s where all the data is stored. The crystallized energy that covers this heart is what we call the soul. (Official Translation of volume 13)

And mind:

Assuming that the mind and spirit are also information, it’s not impossible. (Volume 19)

This is stated recursively, as Unique Skills are the shape of the mind, created only by a strong soul, that are engraved within the soul:

There are times when the mold of one's mind and its powerful wishes give shape to skills. This is the nature of what we call "Unique Skills". The process is impossible without a mighty soul, but among such beings some can even have two or three of them. [...] A Unique Skill is the shape of the mind itself.

And once more, Skills themselves are information:

Skill Bank…information (data) of acquired skills is instantly reproduced. (Volume 16)

Important to note, the claim “was close to having no mass at all” doesn’t exist in the Japanese.

Rimuru uses his absorption skill, Beelzebub, in order to survive Melt Slash:

<<Report. Attack can be counteracted by sacrificing Ultimate Skill “Gluttonous King Beelzebub”, suggest adapting said strategy.>>
Even at this point, Wisdom King Raphael-sama is still reliable.
But honestly, it will be a huge loss to sacrifice “Gluttonous King Beelzebub”, but right now I can only follow this instruction. Since it is the solution suggested by Raphael that has the highest rate of success, I should not have any hesitation. (Volume 7)

However, this was a ploy in order for Raphael to appraise the ability, and reveals that he would’ve survived, irregardless:

—That even if I didn’t use “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” to cancel the attack, I wouldn’t be killed even when hit by “Melt Slash” head on?
<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

The key issue, and or supposed contradiction, is that op suggests this is an outlier, because if Skills [Endless Regeneration] are info, and Info is erased with Melt Slash, how would Rimuru survive? The assertion is that Rimuru cannot regenerate from being destroyed. Well, to start off, let’s look at the actual Skill, Endless Regeneration:

Enhanced version of Extra Skill Ultraspeed Regeneration. Works even quicker than its previous version and can now even regenerate from having the Spiritual Body shattered.

Very clear cut, he can survive from having his Spiritual Body “shattered”. At this point in the story, this would be the only move that could do so (along with Dead End Rainbow, but that’s a sword ability, and not a Skill, not to mention Hinata was not using that sword in the fight), and it’s blatant that Rimuru could recover from this, as cited by Raphael, and the fact that he immediately brought back Beelzebub.

We have established that Skills are information, and Endless Regeneration can revive the spiritual and physical body, even if they are “shattered”, which furthers the point it is Regeneration, not Resurrection.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

hmm, interested

 

[Tatsumi504]

We have established that Skills are information, and Endless Regeneration can revive the spiritual and physical body, even if they are “shattered”, which furthers the point it is Regeneration, not Resurrection.

Once again there's no context of endless regeneration being restored first, rather it seems endless regeneration itself would've never been erased.

You've claimed severally that since rimuru is able to recreate Beelzebub he can do the same to endless regeneration, but in this case neither rimuru nor Raphael even exist. You're thus claiming rimuru can recreate skills even when he doesn't exist. If this isn't NLF then I don't know what is.

I'd much rather leave this till some staff arrives.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I asked Ant but you should try to ask other staff if you know any

 

[Worthless]

You've claimed severally that since rimuru is able to recreate Beelzebub he can do the same to endless regeneration,

Lol as i said above destroying his body would also results of his intrinsic skill being destroy in the process too because it's literally part of their existence hence intrinsic.

That's also the reason why rimuru said stealing someone inherent skill is tough cause that's the same as stealing part of their body.

In other word it just mean endless regeneration can revive/ or regenerate itself from nothing hence high godly regeneration.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Lol as i said above destroying his body would also results of his intrinsic skill being destroy in the process too because it's literally part of their existence hence intrinsic.

I implore you to stop mentioning this "intrinsic skill being a part of their body" argument as it's the same reason as why this statement won't qualify for even LGR if this statement is proved a contradiction.

In other word it just mean endless regeneration can revive/ or regenerate itself from nothing hence high godly regeneration.

<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

For the umpteenth time, nothing here spells endless regeneration being restored first, rather it seems like endless regeneration itself was never erased in the first place which contradicts what melt slash is said to do.
Milly basically says there's no need for it to show that as rimuru can already recreate his skills, including when he doesn't exist. The burden of proof falls on you supporters to prove LN rimuru is capable of that when he has absolutely no feats or statements of being able to do so.

Note: please drop all arguments of "its regeneration not resurrection" as all godly level regeneration feats are immortality type 4 which is ressurection. Calling it regeneration further disqualifies this statement as HGR.

 

[Worthless]

implore you to stop mentioning this "intrinsic skill being a part of their body" argument as it's the same reason as why this statement won't qualify for even LGR if this statement is proved a contradiction.

Why does it hurts ur eyes? That's literally how it would went destroy his body then his inherent skill would also be gone

Also what does HGR mean? It's high godly regeneration right?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Why does it hurts ur eyes? That's literally how it would went destroy his body then his inherent skill would also be gone

Because if endless regeneration wasn't erased this wouldn't even be LGR.

Also what does HGR mean? It's high godly regeneration right?

Yes

 

[Worthless]

Because if endless regeneration wasn't erased this wouldn't even be LGR.

lol did u even read what i said

Yes

Then why did u said if it's regeneration then it's not HGR

 

[Tatsumi504]

lol did u even read what i said

Then why did u said if it's regeneration then it's not HGR

Yes I read it.
Regeneration means he wasn't fully erased, simple as that

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

lol did u even read what i said

Then why did u said if it's regeneration then it's not HGR

It seems that it was simply ignored and they continued with the argument going round and round

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Regeneration means he wasn't fully erased, simple as that

Uh... What?

 

[DaReaperMan]

@Tatsumi504 let me explain to you why your argument just now was... awful.

Anos Voligoad, if I recall he was fully erased and regenned, oops, he's not High-Godly now

Yggdrasil from Digimon Regenerated from complete destruction and erasure, wait, complete destruction and erasure? That's not High-Godly!

The list goes on for a lot of the High-Godly regen users on the site, to the point where High-Godly regeneration would be completely meaningless and would be removed. So, please never mention that again unless you wanna try and revise site standards.

 

[Dereck03]

@Tatsumi504 let me explain to you why your argument just now was... awful.

Anos Voligoad, if I recall he was fully erased and regenned, oops, he's not High-Godly now

Yggdrasil from Digimon Regenerated from complete destruction and erasure, wait, complete destruction and erasure? That's not High-Godly!

The list goes on for a lot of the High-Godly regen users on the site, to the point where High-Godly regeneration would be completely meaningless and would be removed. So, please never mention that again unless you wanna try and revise site standards.

Based

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

@Tatsumi504 let me explain to you why your argument just now was... awful.

Anos Voligoad, if I recall he was fully erased and regenned, oops, he's not High-Godly now

Yggdrasil from Digimon Regenerated from complete destruction and erasure, wait, complete destruction and erasure? That's not High-Godly!

The list goes on for a lot of the High-Godly regen users on the site, to the point where High-Godly regeneration would be completely meaningless and would be removed. So, please never mention that again unless you wanna try and revise site standards.

The Phantom Thieves were completely erased from existence and came back.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sir_Ovens @Phoenks @Elizhaa @Damage3245 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Tatsumi504]

@Tatsumi504 let me explain to you why your argument just now was... awful.

Anos Voligoad, if I recall he was fully erased and regenned, oops, he's not High-Godly now

Yggdrasil from Digimon Regenerated from complete destruction and erasure, wait, complete destruction and erasure? That's not High-Godly!

The list goes on for a lot of the High-Godly regen users on the site, to the point where High-Godly regeneration would be completely meaningless and would be removed. So, please never mention that again unless you wanna try and revise site standards.

Wtf? You're not even making an attempt to understand what I'm saying.
Regeneration can literally be said to be coming back from something, repairing something that's still there. Just because it has regeneration in its name doesn't mean its regeneration.
All godly regeneration is literally immortality type 4.

Also all those cases you mentioned are resurrection but the ability description still calls it regeneration.

This case for rimuru potentially has him coming back from something that wasn't erased and thus doesn't meet the description for the tier it was given

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wtf? You're not even making an attempt to understand what I'm saying.
Regeneration can literally be said to be coming back from something, repairing something that's still there. Just because it has regeneration in its name doesn't mean its regeneration.
All godly regeneration is literally immortality type 4.

Also all those cases you mentioned are resurrection but the ability description still calls it regeneration.

This case for rimuru potentially has him coming back from something that wasn't erased and thus doesn't meet the description for the tier it was given

Three Words. Revise Site Standards.

 

[azontr]

This was a fun read.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems best if everybody here please stop bickering and wait for the knowledgeable members that I called for earlier here.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Sir_Ovens @Phoenks @Elizhaa @Damage3245 @Migue79 @Psychomaster35

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

Thanks ant I was tired of seeing same back and forth argument atleast staff should come to some conclusions.

 

[Elizhaa]

The surrounding context suggests Rimuru would have been completely destroyed. The regeneration case is proven possible with Primodials' case like Diablo, so I think the regeneration could remain.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The surrounding context suggests Rimuru would have been completely destroyed. The regeneration case is proven possible with Primodials' case like Diablo, so I think the regeneration could remain.

Just confused about the explanation in the scans

Diablo is special demon he can Regenerate even if he is getting eliminated
But it also stated Primordial Demons can Regenerate from their core getting destroyed so how that works is it overtime for other Primordial Demons ? Isn't this implies only Diablo is exceptional.

 

[Elizhaa]

Just confused about the explanation in the scans

Diablo is special demon he can Regenerate even if he is getting eliminated
But it also stated Primordial Demons can Regenerate from their core getting destroyed so how that works is it overtime for other Primordial Demons ? Isn't this implies only Diablo is exceptional.

The point I was trying to make is that Rimuru being able to regenerate without his skill completely destroyed isn't farfetched, given the overall context.

 

[Phoenks]

I agree with Da Reaper Man and Elizhaa.

 

[Greatsage13th]

I agree with Da Reaper Man and Elizhaa.

Agreed

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The point I was trying to make is that Rimuru being able to regenerate without his skill completely destroyed isn't farfetched, given the overall context.

That would ease up the need for explanation.
Since scan did outright say unlike demons who die from their core being shattered primordials no matter what happens to their core can regenerate/revive.

Everyone tried to argue using melt slash scans, information type 2 and endless regeneration rather to providing other instances of it being possible to regenerate with all skill erased.
Im convinced with this context knowing who rimuru is in the context of the entire verse.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The point I was trying to make is that Rimuru being able to regenerate without his skill completely destroyed isn't farfetched, given the overall context.

I get your point but the scans used for Rimuru high godly regeneration and diablo both are different and stilll Rimuru high godly regeneration would come from an assumption as it's clearly states he would Regenerate thanks to "endless regeneration" skill. My point is Diablo is considered as exception in that case and even though other demon lords can Regenerate from complete eraser but diablo only stated to regenerate instantly which shows others needs certain time period to regenerate Unlike Diablo.

Well what I am saying Taking Diablo as example kinda still seems far fetched as it was stated he is exceptional one when comes to Regenerating from complete eraser. Where Rapheal statement Contradicting with his HGR.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That would ease up the need for explanation.
Since scan did outright say unlike demons who die from their core being shattered primordials no matter what happens to their core can regenerate/revive.

Everyone tried to argue using melt slash scans, information type 2 and endless regeneration rather to providing other instances of it being possible to regenerate with all skill erased.
Im convinced with this context knowing who rimuru is in the context of the entire verse.

Yeah the explanation should be changed because Melt Slash and Raphael statement doens't add up but primordials ones is legit. But still from Diablo scenario it seems they needs certain time period to regenerate. It would fall under overtime.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well I agree with Keeping high godly regeneration for Rimuru if you guys are willing to change the current reasoning to something like this as Rapheal statement contradictory with HGR.

Mid godly ( Rimuru is stated to regenerate from Melt Slash thanks to skill endless regeneration. Possibly High godly regeneration: All primordials are stated to regenerate from complete existence eraser Rimuru may possibly Regeneration from complete existence eraser from nothing similar to them also it may be overtime as only diablo stated to regenerate instantly)

Change the explanation to something like this Rapheal statement of endless regeneration doesn't add up with HGR explanation so it needs to changed to mid godly and High godly regeneration explanation should be based on Primordials and it should be changed to possibly because of assuming he can Regenerate from complete eraser. Also Diablo being an exception proves others needs a time frame to regenerate it would fall under overtime so It also should be specified. Even if he can Regenerate from nothing it would possibly overtime.

As @TheGreatJedi13 said Given the context of Rimuru in the verse it isn't far fetched but it still comes under small assumption and Diablo is only exception for instant Regeneration thingy. Untill we see a proper feat for Rimuru explanation should be changed to possibly.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The point I was trying to make is that Rimuru being able to regenerate without his skill completely destroyed isn't farfetched, given the overall context.

I'm not trying to say he can't come back from his skills. The justification given for high godly is this

<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>> (Volume 7)

It clearly says he'll come back from the skill which means the skill wasn't erased. If it wasn't erased them this isn't HGR as it needs to be complete destruction. The justification given here only qualify for MGR.

Either the justification be changed like nightmare has suggested or this should be changed to MGR.