Tensura LN revision: Possible Regeneration downgrade for rimuru tempest

[God900]

We just change the justification and problem solved, no need to drag this further.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We just change the justification and problem solved, no need to drag this further.

Agree

 

[Makenai]

I don't understand if Primordial Daemon cannot be killed due to their physiology then why Rimuru's physiology can't do the same despite having similar ability?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

If his High Godly Regeneration is going to become overtime, you should note whether it's combat applicable or not, so people won't get confused.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

High-Godly; Cited to be capable of regenerating not only his physical body, but Skills even after being hit with a Spirit Particle attack such as Melt Slash, a sword art fused with Disintegration that completely annihilates everything from cells to souls.

So is the data written directly onto this energy? Not exactly. First, there's the ego, a set of amorphous wavelengths within the soul, and the group of data particles that surrounds it. This is known as the heart, and that's where all the data is stored. The crystallized energy that covers this heart is what we call the soul.

Can someone clarify this because The heart which stores the data is stated even deeper than Soul and soul is already stated to merged with information particles and aa for above scan information acts as mind.

(HGR)Heart < (Mid Godly) Soul+information (mind) < Physical body (Low godly)

So how is resurrecting from soul destruction is high godly regeneration.

Please don't attack me for asking for clarification.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Isn't the soul made of Information in Tensura?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Isn't the soul made of Information in Tensura?

Yeah but information also referred as many things. As far as the scans says. I am gonna wait and see how it's high godly because information is referred as mind also not just fundamental concepts.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Yeah but information also referred as many things. As far as the scans says. I am gonna wait and see how it's high godly because information is referred as mind also not just fundamental concepts.

I mean the profiles list it as Type 2 Information.

Regenerating from such information's destruction would qualify for High Godly regeneration

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I mean the profiles list it as Type 2 Information.

Regenerating from such information's destruction would qualify for High Godly regeneration

Regenerating from information type 2 destruction is obviously HGR. But my doubt is about the above scans. It's stated as heart stores the data and soul a is thing which covers it.

 

[Makenai]

Regenerating from information type 2 destruction is obviously HGR. But my doubt is about the above scans. It's stated as heart stores the data and soul a is thing which covers it.

If you destroy a stone that doesn't mean you destroy it's atom, if you destroy it's atom then you completely destroy the stone it's as simple as that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If you destroy a stone that doesn't mean you destroy it's atom, if you destroy it's atom then you completely destroy the stone it's as simple as that.

That doesn't Answer my question.

 

[Makenai]

That doesn't Answer my question.

Everything is made of information just like everything is made of atom, it doesn't matter whatever you destroy as long as it destroy the most fundamental aspect you completely destroy everything.

I can't believe you can't understand such simple thing.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Everything is made of information just like everything is made of atom, it doesn't matter whatever you destroy as long as it destroy the most fundamental aspect you completely destroy everything.

I can't believe you can't understand such simple thing.

Information particles* not just normal information as for above scans. Information and information particles are differentiated enough to know the difference.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Everything is made of information just like everything is made of atom, it doesn't matter whatever you destroy as long as it destroy the most fundamental aspect you completely destroy everything.

I can't believe you can't understand such simple thing.

Let me ask you something else if Character A has CM type 1 and creates something from nothingness. Just take a tree character B can't interact with CM type 1 but character B burns down the tree does that mean Character B can affect CM type 1?

 

[Makenai]

Information particles* not just normal information as for above scans. Information and information particles are differentiated enough to know the difference.

Pretty sure I said "the most fundamental aspect".

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Let me ask you something else if Character A has CM type 1 and creates something from nothingness. Just take a tree character B can't interact with CM type 1 but character B burns down the tree does that mean Character B can affect CM type 1?

Destroying the tree wouldn't necessarily nuke its concept.

Destroying the concept, however, would also nuke the tree.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

It would not be overtime, considering Rimuru brought back Beelzebub instantly.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

but again that was achieved while he is alive and well.
I don't really mind or care enough about how fast is his regeneration since I only want a convincing reason for his HGR P&A
but scaling from bringing back Beelzebub is very high balling IMO since it's only an Ultimate Skill and a weaker Copy of him.
specially with what Thunderian mentioned about alternate canon (if somehow we consider Game story canon. if not then ignore this statement), it took him 5 years.
idk how fast it is for Diablo but it should be as fast if not faster than his.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Destroying the tree wouldn't necessarily nuke its concept.

Destroying the concept, however, would also nuke the tree.

Yeah that's exactly my point As scans says everything is made up of information in Tensura but the problem I am having is undergoing the concepts. More Like potent type of thing it's hard to explain I will try to write a better explanation later

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Diablo is stated to be a special demon unlike others.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

but scaling from bringing back Beelzebub is very high balling IMO since it's only an Ultimate Skill and a weaker Copy of him.

Only? Those skills are the principles that form the entire world, and Rimuru brought his back instantly. They are not a weaker copy of him, they are him, Ultimate Skills upscale Unique Skills, which are the shape of the mind and soul, it’s very simple.

I don’t understand why this is now a speed argument, he very clearly replicated it instantly.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Recreating when alive ≠ Recreating from nothing. Without feats claiming that just is an assumption burden of proof from people who are making an huge postive claim of Rimuru getting instantly Regenerating from complete existence eraser.

 

[God900]

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Recreating when alive ≠ Recreating from nothing. Without feats claiming that just is an assumption burden of proof from people who are making an huge postive claim of Rimuru getting instantly Regenerating from complete existence eraser.

Endless Regenerate very directly says it can bring the user back even if the spiritual body (information) is “shattered”. Him regenerating from nothing is, once again, not farfetched.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

belzebuth was backed up by raphael before he sacrificed one to use predation to read Hinata's melt slash/Disintegration

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Well I agree with Keeping high godly regeneration for Rimuru if you guys are willing to change the current reasoning to something like this as Rapheal statement contradictory with HGR.

Mid godly ( Rimuru is stated to regenerate from Melt Slash thanks to skill endless regeneration. Possibly High godly regeneration: All primordials are stated to regenerate from complete existence eraser Rimuru may possibly Regeneration from complete existence eraser from nothing similar to them also it may be overtime as only diablo stated to regenerate instantly)

Change the explanation to something like this Rapheal statement of endless regeneration doesn't add up with HGR explanation so it needs to changed to mid godly and High godly regeneration explanation should be based on Primordials and it should be changed to possibly because of assuming he can Regenerate from complete eraser. Also Diablo being an exception proves others needs a time frame to regenerate it would fall under overtime so It also should be specified. Even if he can Regenerate from nothing it would possibly overtime.

As @TheGreatJedi13 said Given the context of Rimuru in the verse it isn't far fetched but it still comes under small assumption and Diablo is only exception for instant Regeneration thingy. Untill we see a proper feat for Rimuru explanation should be changed to possibly.

My proposal is this

 

[Antvasima]

We just change the justification and problem solved, no need to drag this further.

Please explain regarding the justification change.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Endless Regenerate very directly says it can bring the user back even if the spiritual body (information) is “shattered”. Him regenerating from nothing is, once again, not farfetched.

From the context endless regeneration is skill & melt Slash definition erases Everything both Contradicting. Also as @TheGreatJedi13 Said time period required is unknown

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

belzebuth was backed up by raphael before he sacrificed one to use predation to read Hinata's melt slash/Disintegration

What do you mean he was “backed up”? Raphael just said use Beelzebub, in which they LIED about ever needing it. What is your argument?

 

[Antvasima]

Well I agree with Keeping high godly regeneration for Rimuru if you guys are willing to change the current reasoning to something like this as Rapheal statement contradictory with HGR.

Mid godly ( Rimuru is stated to regenerate from Melt Slash thanks to skill endless regeneration. Possibly High godly regeneration: All primordials are stated to regenerate from complete existence eraser Rimuru may possibly Regeneration from complete existence eraser from nothing similar to them also it may be overtime as only diablo stated to regenerate instantly)

Change the explanation to something like this Rapheal statement of endless regeneration doesn't add up with HGR explanation so it needs to changed to mid godly and High godly regeneration explanation should be based on Primordials and it should be changed to possibly because of assuming he can Regenerate from complete eraser. Also Diablo being an exception proves others needs a time frame to regenerate it would fall under overtime so It also should be specified. Even if he can Regenerate from nothing it would possibly overtime.

As @TheGreatJedi13 said Given the context of Rimuru in the verse it isn't far fetched but it still comes under small assumption and Diablo is only exception for instant Regeneration thingy. Untill we see a proper feat for Rimuru explanation should be changed to possibly.

My proposal is this

@Elizhaa @Phoenks

Is this fine with you?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

From the context endless regeneration is skill & melt Slash definition erases Everything both Contradicting. Also as @TheGreatJedi13 Said time period required is unknown

You’re ignoring context. As straightforward as possible, it says it can bring him back even if his spiritual body is shattered. That is exactly what Raphael alludes to. I have no idea where any of you are getting this Primordial argument, or suggesting it needs time, what is so difficult to understand?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You’re ignoring context. As straightforward as possible, it says it can bring him back even if his spiritual body is shattered. That is exactly what Raphael alludes to. I have no idea where any of you are getting this Primordial argument, or suggesting it needs time, what is so difficult to understand?

Check Elizha argument in previous page she/he brought primordials as example anyway current reasoning for HGR doesn't suit.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Check Elizha argument in previous page she/he brought primordials as example anyway current reasoning for HGR doesn't suit.

Rimuru is not a Primordial, period.

You can’t prove that Endless Regeneration is a contradiction, nor that it takes time to utilize.

Melt Slash destroys information, cells, and souls -> Rimuru recreates Beelzebub -> Raphael says Endless Regeneration could could’ve brought him back -> Endless Regenerate states it can bring someone back after the shattering of their spiritual body (information) -> Melt Slash destroys information, cells, and souls -> Ad-infinite.

There is no contradiction, there is no “missing context”, nor any other imaginary inconsistency. Every single thing that Raphael has said has lined up.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I will reply to Elizha and other staffs you still not getting the Point. Anyway I already gave proposal Above.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I vehemently and strongly disagree with that proposal, as it’s based of assumptions that are not substantiated by any material, disregarding any and all context against it, with arguments that have not been made by any party within the manga outside an an unrelated character.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

What do you mean he was “backed up”? Raphael just said use Beelzebub, in which they LIED about ever needing it. What is your argument?

Volume 7 Chapter 6

(((Prepare to meet your doom! Trinity Break!!)))

Report. Relaunching the ultimate skill Belzebuth.

Just as the professor reported that to me, Belzebuth swallowed up all the droplets of murderous light raining down from above. In a moment, they were all gone. Yikes. Set this thing to full blast, and it was a real monster. Even the paladins stared wide-eyed at me, shocked at the sight of all those missile blasts disappearing before their eyes.

But…wait a second. Didn’t I “sacrifice” Belzebuth when I fought Hinata just now?

Understood. The ultimate skill Belzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, was indeed sacrificed, but a copy had been backed up, so it was not a problem to reactivate.

Huhhh? Backed up? And why was Raphael using the past tense there? You gotta tell me about this crap, man! I thought I had lost that thing forever. The professor acted like this was all settled history, but I wasn’t sure I was willing to accept that.

Report. Rise in holy force detected. Main attack incoming.

Oops. That last strike wasn’t the main one?

(((Face your ruinous end, demon lord! Trinity Disintegration!!)))

Whoa, crap! Belzebuth ain’t gonna cut it now.

then after some talk about multilayer and absolute defense

Understood. In the previous Meltslash attack, Belzebuth both canceled out the strike and invoked Predation on it. This made it possible to gather enough information to successfully recognize the random elements involved. As a result, it became possible to predict and defend against holy attacks. In addition, you have also obtained the holy sword skill Meltslash.

What? Wait. Waaaaaaaaaiiiit. Huh? So you mean you sucked up Hinata’s sword on purpose back there?

Dude, don’t clam up on me, you bastard! I can totally picture you reacting like “Oh no, Rimuru got me” just now! Your silence is telling me everything I need to know!

Although… Wait a second. I know Raphael isn’t the type to take dangerous risks, but…could I have, like, survived a Meltslash blow without having to cancel it out with Belzebuth?

Understood. Of course. You lost a great deal of magical energy, but your material body could have been instantly reconstructed with Infinite Regeneration.

…So what were you so freaked out about? You didn’t just want to consume Meltslash so you could analyze it, did you?

Oh, more of that, huh? Bastard’s getting better and better at dodging my questions. More…malicious, you could say, or humanlike. You could tell me the guy was a living being, and I think I’d believe you.

But…I dunno, I suppose I would’ve wanted it, yeah. Wanted to withstand that attack, wanted to use it myself… Did it take that moment of desire to act upon it that quickly? What a crazy ability I had. It almost felt like it was going to waste on a bum like me.

Negative. I exist only for the sake of my master.

Pretty fast replying to that one, huh? Pfft. Thanks. Keep up the good work, partner! Just try not to keep any secrets from me.

the discussion clearly shows Raphael backed it up first before sacrificing it then reactivating the backup to Rimuru can use it again and yes Raphael used past tense as well further proving it was done prior to being sacrificed

but then I don't really care about how fast his regeneration. so go on with what you want for him. I'm just arguing based on information I have read and known
(most reading WN up before the tournament and after fighting with Hinata again and for LN only up to the end of his first fight against Hinata)

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Volume 7 Chapter 6

I don’t understand, what does this prove?

 

[Catpija]

Information particles* not just normal information as for above scans. Information and information particles are differentiated enough to know the difference.

they are the same on the verse

 

[Catpija]

specially with what Thunderian mentioned about alternate canon (if somehow we consider Game story canon. if not then ignore this statement), it took him 5 years.

It should be noted that at that time, not only Rimuru havent evolved into a Awakened Demon Lord, but he also doesnt have Endless Regeneration yet.

idk how fast it is for Diablo

Instant

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

It should be noted that at that time, not only Rimuru havent evolved into a Awakened Demon Lord, but he also doesnt have Endless Regeneration yet.

fair point

Instant

guess that's fair

I have no issues with it as it is currently