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Tensura LN revision: Possible Regeneration downgrade for rimuru tempest

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Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Melt Slash destroys information, cells, and souls -> Rimuru recreates Beelzebub -> Raphael says Endless Regeneration could could’ve brought him back -> Endless Regenerate states it can bring someone back after the shattering of their spiritual body (information) -> Melt Slash destroys information, cells, and souls -> Ad-infinite.

There is no contradiction, there is no “missing context”, nor any other imaginary inconsistency. Every single thing that Raphael has said has lined up.
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Once again going by the context this literally means that melt slash didn't erase endless regeneration which is a skill and should've been destroyed if he takes melt slash. This coupled with the fact that its been shown that Raphael didn't recreate Beelzebub but rather backed it up thus disproving any claims rimuru can recreate his skills when he doesn't exist.

His regeneration should be changed to MGR as a result of this statement or a different justification for HGR should be added as proposed by nightmare and god900
 
Catpija said:
It should be noted that at that time, not only Rimuru havent evolved into a Awakened Demon Lord, but he also doesnt have Endless Regeneration yet.

Instant
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Again Diablo is stated to be special demon unlike others. Anyway the fact endless regeneration skill of Rimuru not getting erased still remains and thus Contradicting with the statement and feats.

If as milky says primordials thing shouldn't be compared to Rimuru then

Mid godly Regeneration ( Rapheal stated Rimuru can Regenerate even after taking direct hit from melt Slash with the help of endless regeneration skill. Possibly High Godly Regeneration: possibly Rimuru may be able to regenerate from complete eraser of his information particles but with unknown time period)

This explanation suits better than giving a HGR Regeneration based on assumption
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Again Diablo is stated to be special demon unlike others. Anyway the fact endless regeneration skill of Rimuru not getting erased still remains and thus Contradicting with the statement and feats.

If as milky says primordials thing shouldn't be compared to Rimuru then

Mid godly Regeneration ( Rapheal stated Rimuru can Regenerate even after taking direct hit from melt Slash with yeh help of endless regeneration skill. Possibly High Godly Regeneration: possibly Rimuru may be able to regenerate from complete eraser of his information particles but with unknown time period)
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For the 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999th time, Rimuru can very easily restore Endless Regeneraion as he's shown to be able to restore Beezlebub pretty much instantly. Or am I just talking to a brick wall of denial when I say this?
 
DaReaperMan said:
For the 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999th time, Rimuru can very easily restore Endless Regeneraion as he's shown to be able to restore Beezlebub pretty much instantly. Or am I just talking to a brick wall of denial when I say this?
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Bro again Regenerating Belzebeeb when he was alive and when he is dead is different things.

Low godly and High mid Regeneration both are different. For Low godly characters needs completely getting erased on physical body and regenerating gives low godly but high Regeneration is based on Regenerating from atomic level. Just so he can Regenerate from atomic level we don't assume he has low godly regeneration because he Regenerates other body parts which gets already erased

Just like that we can't say him Regenerating Belzebeeb when he was alive is same when he becomes nothing
 
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High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown/cut to pieces, brain included, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a finger, or the heart.

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

Just like how these two works we can't say just so he Regenerates Belzebeeb when he was alive he can do it in Nothingness. Especially without proof of him doing it.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
High-Mid: The ability to regenerate from being blown/cut to pieces, brain included, or from a small piece of the user's body, such as a finger, or the heart.

Low-High: The ability to regenerate from having no solid parts of the body remaining. This can range from a puddle or drop of blood to even a single cell. For robots and machines, this can also include regenerating from a liquid state.

Just like how these two works we can't say just so he Regenerates Belzebeeb when he was alive he can do it in Nothingness. Especially without proof of him doing it.
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Every Regeneration types has few differences. Just so one character Regenerates theirs physical body we don't give them Mid Godly regeneration assuming they can Regenerate their soul and mind. Just like that Rimuru Regenerating Belzebeeb when he was alive doesn't hold much of an feat for HGR. It's still falls under huge assumption.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Bro again Regenerating Belzebeeb when he was alive and when he is dead is different things.

Low godly and High end Regeneration both are different. For Low godly characters needs completely getting erased on physical body and regenerating gives low godly but high Regeneration is based on Regenerating from atomic level. Just so he can Regenerate from atomic level we don't assume he has low godly regeneration because he Regenerates other body parts which gets already erased
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is this that awful "But Godly Regeneration is actually Type 4 Immortality" argument again? You know, the same argument that needs you to go revise site standards for? Or is this argument at face value and as such we say Anos Voligoad, Yggdrasil, SMT Phantom Thieves, the list goes on, no longer have High-Godly cause "They didn't do it while dead though"

And about that argument, it assumes that you are right, which you aren't.
 
DaReaperMan said:
For the 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999th time, Rimuru can very easily restore Endless Regeneraion as he's shown to be able to restore Beezlebub pretty much instantly. Or am I just talking to a brick wall of denial when I say this?
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For one recreating something when you're alive and when you're erased are different things. It falls on you to prove her is capable of recreating a skill when he doesn't exist.
Secondly its been shown rimuru didn't recreate Beelzebub but rather Raphael backed it up and reactivated it later. You're currently the brick wall of denial here.
Understood. The ultimate skill Belzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, was indeed sacrificed, but a copy had been backed up, so it was not a problem to reactivate.
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DaReaperMan said:
is this that awful "But Godly Regeneration is actually Type 4 Immortality" argument again? You know, the same argument that needs you to go revise site standards for? Or is this argument at face value and as such we say Anos Voligoad, Yggdrasil, SMT Phantom Thieves, the list goes on, no longer have High-Godly cause "They didn't do it while dead though"

And about that argument, it assumes that you are right, which you aren't.
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These characters you've mentioned have feats of being completely erased even on a fundamental existential level and still regenerated and yes, they were dead, this is immortality type 4, Type 3 only applies to low to high regeneration. They have feats or statements of doing so. Rimuru has no feats or statements of recreating a skill that would revive him after he's been erased on a fundamental level.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
These characters you've mentioned have feats of being completely erased even on a fundamental existential level and still regenerated and yes, they were dead, this is immortality type 4, Type 3 only applies to low to high regeneration. They have feats or statements of doing so. Rimuru has no feats or statements of recreating a skill that would revive him after he's been erased on a fundamental level.
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R E V I S E S I T E S T A N D A R D S, how many times do I gotta say that?
Tatsumi504 said:
For one recreating something when you're alive and when you're erased are different things. It falls on you to prove her is capable of recreating a skill when he doesn't exist.
Secondly its been shown rimuru didn't recreate Beelzebub but rather Raphael backed it up and reactivated it later. You're currently the brick wall of denial here.
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Didn’t I just sacrifice “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” in order to deal with Hinata’s attack…
<<Answer. It indeed sacrificed Ultimate Skill “Gluttonous King Beelzebuth”, but it won’t pose an issue since a copy of the skill has been made.>>
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Courtesy of @Thunderian earlier in the thread.

So, do I hear a desperate lie?
 
Thunderian said:
It is still HGR, because the soul and the mind itself is Information. I've said it before, whether you ignore it or not.

So, it's still HGR.
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But not everything was erased. It doesn't matter if information was still erased as its not complete erasure. The way Raphael worded his statement implies that endless regeneration wouldn't have been erased by melt slash.
I've already asked staff about this and yes, it needs to be complete erasure. Regenerating from partial erasure is equivalent to a low to high normal regeneration but for metaphysical aspects not physical.

This doesn't qualify as HGR at all. Either the justification be changed or this be changed to MGR
 
Tatsumi504 said:
These characters you've mentioned have feats of being completely erased even on a fundamental existential level and still regenerated and yes, they were dead, this is immortality type 4, Type 3 only applies to low to high regeneration. They have feats or statements of doing so. Rimuru has no feats or statements of recreating a skill that would revive him after he's been erased on a fundamental level.
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You should revise the regeneration page. To separate All Godly Regeneration into Immortality Type 4 instead of Type 3. Or move All Godly Regeneration to the Resurrection page.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
But not everything was erased. It doesn't matter if information was still erased as its not complete erasure. The way Raphael worded his statement implies that endless regeneration wouldn't have been erased by melt slash.
I've already asked staff about this and yes, it needs to be complete erasure. Regenerating from partial erasure is equivalent to a low to high normal regeneration but for metaphysical aspects not physical.

This doesn't qualify as HGR at all. Either the justification be changed or this be changed to MGR
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I've said it so many times, too tired to say it again. A circular argument that keeps on repeating, as if answers come and go because they are ignored.

I have given a clear answer. Just like Milly, I disagree with this CRT.
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
I vehemently and strongly disagree with that proposal, as it’s based of assumptions that are not substantiated by any material, disregarding any and all context against it, with arguments that have not been made by any party within the manga outside an an unrelated character.
Click to expand...
 
Elizhaa said:
It still roughly got the same opinions.
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Rimuru HGR based on assumption of he can Regenerate from nothing. Also Raphael statement literally contradictory with HGR as Endless regeneration skill used to regenerate Rimuru if the skill remains then it's not like He Completely erased.

So my suggestion is to change it to legit mid godly regeneration and possibly high godly regeneration for assumption.

Recreating Belzebeeb argument is different thing because that was done when he was as alive but recreating something from nothingness is different need feats that's why HGR is special case for every character. Also time frame needed to regenerate from complete existence eraser. That also very problematic as Above (i don't know if Game is canon but greatjedi13 said it took 5 years to regenerate) well even ignoring that only diablo is exceptional in the verse. We can't just assume Rimuru can Regenerate instantly.

Anyway This is my suggestion I will leave it up to you.
 
The recreating skills has been proven to be wrong as well as Raphael simply backed up the skill before sacrificing it and simply reactivated it later.
Understood. The ultimate skill Belzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, was indeed sacrificed, but a copy had been backed up, so it was not a problem to reactivate.
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Nothing here suggests he can recreate a skill not to mention doing so when he doesn't exist
 
Tatsumi504 said:
The recreating skills has been proven to be wrong as well as Raphael simply backed up the skill before sacrificing it and simply reactivated it later.

Nothing here suggestions he can recreate a skill not to mention doing so when he doesn't exist
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Don't lie.
Didn’t I just sacrifice “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” in order to deal with Hinata’s attack…
<<Answer. It indeed sacrificed Ultimate Skill “Gluttonous King Beelzebuth”, but it won’t pose an issue since a copy of the skill has been made.>>
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DaReaperMan said:
Don't lie.
Click to expand...
Understood. The ultimate skill Belzebuth, Lord of Gluttony, was indeed sacrificed, but a copy had been backed up, so it was not a problem to reactivate.
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how is this a lie? Its right there Raphael says he backed it up first, using past tense, before sacrificing it so reactivating it wasn't an issue.
Later I'm the one in denial 🤦🏾‍♂🤦🏾‍♂
 
Tatsumi504 said:
how is this a lie? Its right there Raphael says he backed it up first, using past tense, before sacrificing it so reactivating it wasn't an issue.
Later I'm the one in denial 🤦🏾‍♂🤦🏾‍♂
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<<Answer. It indeed sacrificed Ultimate Skill “Gluttonous King Beelzebuth”, but it won’t pose an issue since a copy of the skill has been made.>>
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This was posted by @Thunderian as the 99th post of the thread. "Copy" is not past tense.
 
Didn’t I just sacrifice “Gluttonous King Beelzebub” in order to deal with Hinata’s attack…
<<Answer. It indeed sacrificed Ultimate Skill “Gluttonous King Beelzebuth”, but it won’t pose an issue since a copy of the skill has been made.>>
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How this Contradicting anything? Its not saying it was made after Beelzebub got negged. It just states has been made. Also can I get the chapter no. I will read it myself.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
How this Contradicting anything? Its not saying it was made after Beelzebub got negged. It just states has been made. Also can I get the chapter no. I will read it myself.
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Ah ah ah, it didn't say "copied", which is the paste tense, Copy is the present/future tense.

I don't have the chapter number by meself, better ask milly or Thunderian.
Tatsumi504 said:
Raphael copied it before sacrificing Beelzebub. How is that not past tense?
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Because that translation(if it even is that and not you literally BSing as I heavily suspect) your throwing at the wall ain't what we use here.
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Has been past tense not present tense.

dictionary.cambridge.org

has-been

1. a person who in the past was famous, important, admired, or good at…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org
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Copy present/future tense not past tense.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Mid godly Regeneration ( Rapheal stated Rimuru can Regenerate even after taking direct hit from melt Slash with the help of endless regeneration skill. Possibly High Godly Regeneration: possibly Rimuru may be able to regenerate from complete eraser of his information particles but with unknown time period)
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the "but with unknown time period" isnt needed, the scan which have been sent numerously in this thread stated that Endless Regeneration can regenerate instantly

<<Answer. Of course not. Speculate to consume massive amount of magicule, however, the physical body can be instantly revived through “Endless Regeneration”.>>
Click to expand...

Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
I was talking about Elizha comparing his Regeneration to Rimuru. Anyway I will wait for her/his replies
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why would you reply to my message if you talking to somebody else
 
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