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That statement Saman made is debunked by Palutena's guidance where they literally talk about Subspace Emissary.
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Super Smash Bros. revision
- Thread starter Eficiente
- Start date
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Yeah ik wanted to see for sure though cause for a lot of Sakurai's interviews people either misunderstand him or it's mistranslated.
I.E. Ice Climbers interview that got people to unironically think they're siblings.
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I also said that I remembered it wrong, it was from the direct in which they shown WoL for the first time.
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I'm gonna make the joke.
"I always come back!"
Here's the response.
"I always come back!"
Here's the response.
It would be a worse assumption that they don't give you their own strength. "Fighters can join forces with spirits to enhance their power." No reason why it would be limited, unless you have something to suggest this.
That's a bad argument, being damaged by other in-game is not a contradiction, especially when you can still take hits from Palkia and Arceus whom should be comparable. Saying a character gets hurt by this so he shouldn't be a tier is a common argument that's been denied. Can't wait to downgrade Shovel Knight after being harmed by a bubble or Kirby harmed from an apple.
Terrible analogy. A house and a universe are not even close to being the same thing. The characters needed a universe to begin with in order to even live, how else would they be existing.
He actually gives life to every character, beating Smash 64 with any character displays them returning to their toy form, meaning MH would need to be the one giving life. Again with this argument about characters doing what they want? MH quite literally has no issues letting them roam around, especially when he wants to fight them. Also, giving characters their own memories as you create something doesn't back anything up, no reason for MH not to give them any. Have you ever played with your toys as a child and pretend to give out stories? That's basically what is happening.
If MH was displayed to make the stages, who do you think made the rest? What, we're just going "yeah this guy who makes stages only made these two. Then how do the others exist? Don't worry about it". To say he didn't make the rest is heavily faulty. Back to the Smash 64 intro, as we see the characters being introduced, so are the other places. So if MH made Mario's stage, how were the others made during that? Why shouldn't we jump that he makes them all?
I can easily do that then, not only can the fighters survive its attacks in Brawl and Ultimate, but defeat the spirit as well. And who does MH fight? It's simple scaling. Or if you want we can measure how much damage he deals and subtract it from MH's HP. No reason not to scale.
Stop accusing anyone against you to be biased man, people can be biased against something as well.
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So I agree that this entire argument should be discredited cause using Springtrap's quotes instead of Showtime Foxy's.
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So I agree that this refute should be discredited because his name is Funtime Foxy, not Showtime.
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- Thread starter
- #167
Didn't say they don't give their strength/enhance their power, but that the empowering is 100% = to what the spirits could do with their bodies. I can see this being a thing tho.
Yours is a bad argument, if surviving getting damaged by in-game things are feats then so the feats that are less powerful are anti-feats for the most powerful, which I see as basic. Idk Shovel Knight but mid-bosses in Kirby are repeatedly portrayed as weaker than the Kirby-level guys and that tree in particular as not a big deal there, I also see your examples clearly unbalanced if not just dishonest as those characters have their own consistency on feats around the tiers in which they are whereas the Smash cast tries to get into a much, much higher level by way of notably "cheaper" ways.
You didn't put attention on the "and the people inside". The way the world of imagination was portrayed it would seem that it already houses characters and their universes on their own, without a being neeeding to make that, and then we have the fact that MH just got his powers at some point.
Kirby beats Mario, Mario turns into a trophy, Kirby gives life to Mario and MH isn't there, more stuff like happens and so to say that he always gives life to the characters is wrong.
After they beat MH on the space between the real and ima. worlds they return to the real world, thereby turning into a toy. You make a jump in logic by saying it's always him. As something minor Final Des. itself already existed and isn't just made before a battle there may start.
They already can do whatever in the world of ima., you're the one saying that MH is just letting them do so, MH has been controlled twice and the cast was still doing stuff.
"Then how do the others exist?" It's the world of img., if they ever went into a place then it's a stage in Smash because the place exists. That would be gameplay wise, in canon we see the cast being in some much more limited island with Angel Land in it and other varied terrains and the fights the characters do being with audiences like we hear in gameplay with a stage made for them to be there, so maybe we need to take some things with a grain of salt.
Yes MH can make stages and give life to characters, and so characters can give life to themselves and go fight in whatever places they feel like it, they likely even made that stage where Mario and Kirby fought, given how MH is someone who needs to fought on sight and wasn't shown.
Scaling wise "yes", I meant as in an inhered reason to him being above all hazards.
Not against me, but for dismissing and diminishing something he admitted not to know, I believe I made this clear there.
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At least Smash dudes will be Solar System soon, since there's no way Sephiroth's final smash isn't supernova
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Isn’t a Final Smash typically used to defeat your opponent? They would only scale if they aren’t defeated, so Why would they scale?
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It doesn't always defeat your opponent. Unless Sephiroth's FS one shots at 0%, scaling is viable.
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A regular attack from Sephy can cut Galeem in half, who one-shot the universe with everyone in it and needed to be defeated by the whole cast (doesn't matter if it's an outlier), one could also assume he would have been able to impale Mario if he felt like it. Gameplay wise no sh*t he will be on an even level to everyone, doesn't mean they scale, let alone from his best attack on his final form.
Edit: He also grabbed Mario with his sword and then reacted to clash swords with Cloud for a while before they kept fighting with Mario then being tossed away. As in nothing was stropping Mario and yet he did nothing during the first clash with Cloud, nothing stopped him to fight with Cloud after being tossed and so he was defeated just by being tossed away with a super indirect "attack". That's some pretty high speed and power Sephy and Cloud have over the rest of the cast.
Edit: He also grabbed Mario with his sword and then reacted to clash swords with Cloud for a while before they kept fighting with Mario then being tossed away. As in nothing was stropping Mario and yet he did nothing during the first clash with Cloud, nothing stopped him to fight with Cloud after being tossed and so he was defeated just by being tossed away with a super indirect "attack". That's some pretty high speed and power Sephy and Cloud have over the rest of the cast.
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We’re actually using trailers for scaling...?
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I think they might be used as reference, and this is like the only trailer in which a massive power gap is displayed.
Even looking at the previous trailers, many characters that beat others in their reveal get defeated by others somewhere else, like Samus surviving Ridley but getting one-shotted by Little Mac, who in turn is defeated by Ken, who is defeated by Incineroar and so on.
Sephi's trailer is the only one that shows a character being massively above all the others.
Even looking at the previous trailers, many characters that beat others in their reveal get defeated by others somewhere else, like Samus surviving Ridley but getting one-shotted by Little Mac, who in turn is defeated by Ken, who is defeated by Incineroar and so on.
Sephi's trailer is the only one that shows a character being massively above all the others.
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Samus was only “one shot” by the KO punch to my memory. (She was just launched away too.)
Being defeated by someone doesn’t put you above them, only on the same level unless it was done with ease, so the others should be mostly on the same level.
So I can agree with this being unique, since as you said this is the only trailer to show such a power gap.
Being defeated by someone doesn’t put you above them, only on the same level unless it was done with ease, so the others should be mostly on the same level.
So I can agree with this being unique, since as you said this is the only trailer to show such a power gap.
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Yes, I meant that the trailers overall show that they are all comparable, so they don't cause problems with the general scaling.
Sephirot's is the exception, but it also shows that nobody (but Final Smash Cloud, maybe) scales to him.
Sephirot's is the exception, but it also shows that nobody (but Final Smash Cloud, maybe) scales to him.
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That's what I wanted to say, using the trailers doesn't cause problems to the overall scaling
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I mean, reveal trailers are always exaggerarting power of the characters. Like, Mega Man soloed Smash 64 roster in his trailer, yet presented as an average fighter everywhere else.
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Fair enough. I'm pretty sure he will have anti feats in the future tho. And the character will definitely be able to survive the supernova
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Not in the same way as Sephy, clearly. Mega Man got near defeat before showing off the powers from Robot Masters.
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In his classic mode, Sephiroth fights every boss in the game and cuts through them like butter.
He's very clearly canonically above everyone else.
He's very clearly canonically above everyone else.
Lou_change
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I mean in subspace it was shown the fighters couldn't even move normal R.O.B much less harm them including captain falcon who one shot a far larger R.O.B, yet R.O.B does knocks around several everytime with one hit, isn't shown harmed by them after their previous attack, and is then shown being dragged away by DK.
Wii fit trainer one shot Mario, kirby, and link in her trailer.
Bowser jr. Was easily beating several characters.
Ridley one shot mega man who was shown samus better implied also one shot Mario yet samus held her own.
Wii fit trainer one shot Mario, kirby, and link in her trailer.
Bowser jr. Was easily beating several characters.
Ridley one shot mega man who was shown samus better implied also one shot Mario yet samus held her own.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Are you serious? You have to Boss Rush them?
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On an unrelated note, smash should at least be tier 4, as seen in Sephiroth's final smash. Sakurai did also say that all planets in the solar system were destroyed.
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Well, Cloud fought him, and he's comparable to the rest fighters. Pretty sure the trailer was just rule of cool.
Lou_change
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He started in his normal form and ended in his one winged form in the trailer.
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I think we should summarize the aim of this CRT and leave Sephiroth for another time, otherwise we'll never finish
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@Eficiente
What do you think should be done here and why, in summary?
Also, are there some staff members that we should send notifications to about this thread?
What do you think should be done here and why, in summary?
Also, are there some staff members that we should send notifications to about this thread?
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Anyway, about Sephiroth, I would agree Smash peeps don't scale to him rn, but soon they probably will.
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Maybe, I would love if they could appear and stay but I don't think that's going to happen.
@Antvasima Remove the following things
@Antvasima Remove the following things
- Remove the texts saying that Master Hand created the Smash universe as the World of Imagination already existed (whether or not he created more stages than what's shown and if those are universes is a different matter that's being discussed)
- Master Hand treating Arceus and other PKMN as literal toys (As before, if MH scales to them or not is being discussed, the claims are false and simply need to be removed)
- Master Hand and Crazy Hand as at least High 7-A upscaling from most of the cast.
- Tabuu 4-A as his death collapses the Subspace realm, which is shown to have stars in it.
- Galeem and Dharkon 3-A as the former destroyed the universe.
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And Sephi is universal?
Lou_change
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I would argue that Galeem and dharkon don't scale to their ultimate attacks as they lost twice to high 7-As assuming spirits amped them would mean master hand and the other bosses would down scale and circular scaling happens.
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