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Hello, everyone. This is Dino Ranger Black. I know it’s been quite a while since I made a CRT and I’m still not used to how this forum works since I’m not as active as I used to be, so please be patient if I make some mistakes, whether it be typos or a new rule that I wasn’t aware of. Anyway, as we all know, we've been getting some Mario revisions back to back lately this summer and after seeing the ratings, I totally see why. I’m going to be frank, I’m not happy with the way this verse is currently handled. Apparently, during my procrastination, many upgrades were snuck for the same exact reasons (as well as another factor that I’ve grown tired of) why they were turned down on multiple occasions. It's pretty apparent we have an issue with it and made it an entire mess. So the best course of action is instead of picking these feats one at a time, we have to revise it as a whole and to be blunt, it’s an absolute downgrade for the verse.
1. Universal Scaling on the Recurring Characters
Seriously, how on Earth did this get through? It’s been constantly claimed that the characters are “consistently” Low 2-C enough to warrant the rating despite going over it several times why they are not. Not that it matters anymore, two of them (Black Jewel and Grand Star) have been downgraded or about to be, leaving them with one. And with the best feats I’m about to go over being no where near close to that level, it has to be removed. Now.
2. Power Stars’ Low 2-C Rating
Another upgrade that snuck under our noses. And for reasons that doesn’t warrant it’s rating. Now there's nothing wrong with it's other ratings, primarily the Tier 4 ones, just this one in particular. The main argument for this rating is that they are "treated to be comparable to the real world" (No such comparison exists from what I read) and it being able to “encompass all of reality”. Several reasons why this is unreliable: First, it’s very vague. Second, there are no universe statements whatsoever. Third, even if we take this quote literally, assuming the worlds are swallowing something or whatever, we are not given a timeframe for that. Another argument is some kind of bottomless quote in the Japanese version, which I disagree and should not used as a justification for the feat. Especially with bottomless pits being frequent in the Mario series but as a game mechanic. I’ll go over more about the use of different languages to evaluate feats later but for now, this rating needs to be ditched ASAP. Power Stars are 4-C at minimum and 4-A at max. Nothing more.
3. New AP and Speed Revisions
Now let’s cut to the chase with the main concern of the verse’s rating. A lot of the 4-A feats previously used to support the rating has been removed, leaving it with only one, which is not very feasible or enough to support it. I believe it’s time to use a different set of more reliable ratings. So here are the feats I found that definitely be in range with each other:
1. In Bowser’s Inside Story, the final boss, Dark Bowser, unleashed a storm that will destroy the Mushroom Kingdom. Initially, I wasn’t going to use this feat since it may fallen under environmental destruction but I read the requirements carefully and I can safely say it scales to his actual power. The aforementioned storm is in fact, Dark Bowser’s dark powers. As you can see within this cutscene:
"The dark power slept so long, and now it wakes... It must be freed... BEHOLD!"
"Still here? Has the dark power not yet crushed your puny hopes? Soon this kingdom will vanish along with all who dwell within. And you, too, will sleep eternally in the dark power's embrace!"
Even Starlow's comment attests to this:
"I can feel the dark power emanating like crazy!"
I remembered someone mentioning a calc being made for this. I think it was somewhere around Tier 6. I can't make calculations, however, so I'm not sure. Not that it matters anyway. We can make another one, only this time abit more up to scale. With the Mushroom Kingdom’s size on the map in Super Mario Odyssey, we should get some similar results.
2. From what I read, Shake King’s feat from WarioLand Shake it is currently considered outdated. I, unfortunately, can’t layout the details why since I’m not a calc expert but I’ve been requesting for a recalculation on the feat and yet no one has done so. I’m not sure how much of a downgrade it will be but I believe it still could be used once calculated properly.
3. I’m sure most people are aware of DK’s moon punching feat in Donkey Kong Country Returns. Diddy Kong is also capable of pulling off the same feat and Mario being able to take hits from Donkey Kong and hurt him in return, so this is undoubtedly applicable . We initially separated the feats from due to how they greatly vary but now the feats are with range and DKC is indeed part of the SMB verse, we can cross scale it.
4. In Mario Tennis Aces, the main antagonist, Lucien, was able destroy an entire kingdom in the story. Mario was able to fight him, who fused with Bowser, which we all know to be one of the stronger characters in the series. But as fiction has proven several times, “destroying something” could mean anything,, so not very useful.
As you might have guess, this will be the new rating for the characters. Since they generally fallen under the Tier 7 or Tier 6 rating, I believe this will be our new rating for the characters who scale. Not only are they more reliable and consistent, it’s not absurdly high beyond belief and more importantly, it’s reasonable. That being said, I do believe there’s a likely higher tier…….for some characters. You’ll see what I mean:
1. Here’s something I missed, according to Rosalina in the first game and the Lumas in the second, the Lumas that travels with Mario granted him the “power of the stars”. This power is infact, the Star Spin. It’s established that the Power Stars are indeed Lumas, serving as their primary source of power. If we take a look at the boss fights against Bowser in Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser is engaged in combat against Mario, with no amp of his own. Not only is he constantly able to take hits from Mario’s Star Spin, he can also counter it with a spin attack of his own.
2. In return, Mario and co. has fought Bowser amped with power with no amp of their own. Examples include most Yoshi games, Mario Tennis Aces, Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time, among others. And while Mario’s ability to hurt Bowser directly has varies from game to game, what remains consistent is he, at least, able to take hits from from all of them.
3. Finally, there’s a certain feat in SMW2: Yoshi’s Island. Kamek uses his magic to amp Raphael the Raven, who was able to knock Yoshi into a small planetoid. After the battle, Raphael the Raven would be sent flying, resulting into an explosion that resulted in a star being formed. This is undoubtedly due to Kamek’s enhancement and he would use the same type of spell on Bowser, who’s clearly stronger than everyone else.
With the bare minimum of being able to harm a few users of Power Stars, Bowser himself being able to counter and attack the same power source, and Yoshi being able to fight against Bowser using the same type of magic amping enhancement, I believe this warrants a “likely 4-C”. I like to clarify that this will not be applied to every single character. Contrary to popular belief of the supporters, it’s pretty clear that some characters are stronger and more capable than others. So it’s best to decide now other than the two we just mentioned.
Unlike the AP, the speed feats are surprisingly fine. The problem is that they are shared for a single rating. Because of this, I believe all the speed feats related to the Galaxy games should be separated. After all, Rosalind stated the Luma with help Mario traverse across space and Bowser is using the Power and Grand Stars to cross the universe.
So where does leave them in base forms? I think I have found the answer: The Koopa Clown Car and Koopa Jr Clown Car. Both are Bowser and Bowser Jr vehicles. As we see in both Mario Party 8 and Mario Party 9, these vehicles are capable of traveling interstellar distances in a short time frame. It’s admittedly unspecified but clearly no more than a day as Bowser flew off into a star nearby and both him and his son flew to the outskirts of a galaxy and back. Of course, if anyone would like to make a calculation on these, that would be nice.
One might can argue that these are merely space flight feats inapplicable to combat. However, that’s not the case. In both games where the feat is present, the characters have to battle these two within these vehicles. In fact, battle with Bowser and his son in their respective Clown Cars have been frequent throughout the entire series. They are often used for combative purposes. Worth noting that Bowser Jr used in a few sports games even, which may seem dismissible at first, however, the nature of these games are rather combative in comparison to what we are familiar with. Even when the rider is taking evasive maneuvers, the character of choice is still able to react to them.
The amount of occurrences of their uses should support the speed feats, even if it’s not up to par with the Galaxy related feats. Even if we can apply it to the characters normal movement speed, we can apply it to combat speeds and reactions.
4. Evaluation through Different Languages
I’ve been noticing for most of the feats that’s been recently removed and should be removed, many of the reasons that they are used in the first place is because of fan translated dialogue of the Japanese version. I’m going to be real, this is absolutely absurd. This isn’t 4kids/early 90’s dub of unreliable translations. The localization version of these dialogues rarely change what we know AT ALL and the official translation of Super Mario Galaxy is pretty spot on, ironically more than the Japanese attempts. Bowser said he was going to create a new galaxy……twice……and that’s exactly what happened in the cut scene where the Comet Observatory was heading to the center of the universe. The fact people are also trying to use Japan's unique letter and grammar system to fabricate feats in this verse such as using a word to claim that it means universe when it doesn’t add up is just plain ridiculous and the very definition of reaching. I propose that are official translations of this verse will be the ONLY translation until further notice.
Summary
So basically, here’s how we are going to revise the verse:
All the characters with a universal tier in their base will be removed immediately. No more Low 2-C ratings for lowbrow reasons, seriously.
Power Stars are not universal. Low 2-C is out….period.
Every single character who’s been scaled and will be scaled gets their base forms downgraded to the aforementioned feats as soon as these calculations are made for reasons above (I'm guessing they will be somewhere around the Tier 6 or 7 range), with a select few them will be having a “Likely 4-C” included. The amount of wank and leniency that’s been happening with this franchise is insane. Of course, other calcs and feats are welcomed.
The speed feats are overall fine. They just need separated from each other.
We stick to official translations from here on out. We already have more than enough threads that out right debunks them and they are one of the main sources of the conflict and nonsensical upgrades this verse has been getting lately. No more fan translated material of other languages.
1. Universal Scaling on the Recurring Characters
Seriously, how on Earth did this get through? It’s been constantly claimed that the characters are “consistently” Low 2-C enough to warrant the rating despite going over it several times why they are not. Not that it matters anymore, two of them (Black Jewel and Grand Star) have been downgraded or about to be, leaving them with one. And with the best feats I’m about to go over being no where near close to that level, it has to be removed. Now.
2. Power Stars’ Low 2-C Rating
Another upgrade that snuck under our noses. And for reasons that doesn’t warrant it’s rating. Now there's nothing wrong with it's other ratings, primarily the Tier 4 ones, just this one in particular. The main argument for this rating is that they are "treated to be comparable to the real world" (No such comparison exists from what I read) and it being able to “encompass all of reality”. Several reasons why this is unreliable: First, it’s very vague. Second, there are no universe statements whatsoever. Third, even if we take this quote literally, assuming the worlds are swallowing something or whatever, we are not given a timeframe for that. Another argument is some kind of bottomless quote in the Japanese version, which I disagree and should not used as a justification for the feat. Especially with bottomless pits being frequent in the Mario series but as a game mechanic. I’ll go over more about the use of different languages to evaluate feats later but for now, this rating needs to be ditched ASAP. Power Stars are 4-C at minimum and 4-A at max. Nothing more.
3. New AP and Speed Revisions
Now let’s cut to the chase with the main concern of the verse’s rating. A lot of the 4-A feats previously used to support the rating has been removed, leaving it with only one, which is not very feasible or enough to support it. I believe it’s time to use a different set of more reliable ratings. So here are the feats I found that definitely be in range with each other:
1. In Bowser’s Inside Story, the final boss, Dark Bowser, unleashed a storm that will destroy the Mushroom Kingdom. Initially, I wasn’t going to use this feat since it may fallen under environmental destruction but I read the requirements carefully and I can safely say it scales to his actual power. The aforementioned storm is in fact, Dark Bowser’s dark powers. As you can see within this cutscene:
"The dark power slept so long, and now it wakes... It must be freed... BEHOLD!"
"Still here? Has the dark power not yet crushed your puny hopes? Soon this kingdom will vanish along with all who dwell within. And you, too, will sleep eternally in the dark power's embrace!"
Even Starlow's comment attests to this:
"I can feel the dark power emanating like crazy!"
I remembered someone mentioning a calc being made for this. I think it was somewhere around Tier 6. I can't make calculations, however, so I'm not sure. Not that it matters anyway. We can make another one, only this time abit more up to scale. With the Mushroom Kingdom’s size on the map in Super Mario Odyssey, we should get some similar results.
2. From what I read, Shake King’s feat from WarioLand Shake it is currently considered outdated. I, unfortunately, can’t layout the details why since I’m not a calc expert but I’ve been requesting for a recalculation on the feat and yet no one has done so. I’m not sure how much of a downgrade it will be but I believe it still could be used once calculated properly.
3. I’m sure most people are aware of DK’s moon punching feat in Donkey Kong Country Returns. Diddy Kong is also capable of pulling off the same feat and Mario being able to take hits from Donkey Kong and hurt him in return, so this is undoubtedly applicable . We initially separated the feats from due to how they greatly vary but now the feats are with range and DKC is indeed part of the SMB verse, we can cross scale it.
4. In Mario Tennis Aces, the main antagonist, Lucien, was able destroy an entire kingdom in the story. Mario was able to fight him, who fused with Bowser, which we all know to be one of the stronger characters in the series. But as fiction has proven several times, “destroying something” could mean anything,, so not very useful.
As you might have guess, this will be the new rating for the characters. Since they generally fallen under the Tier 7 or Tier 6 rating, I believe this will be our new rating for the characters who scale. Not only are they more reliable and consistent, it’s not absurdly high beyond belief and more importantly, it’s reasonable. That being said, I do believe there’s a likely higher tier…….for some characters. You’ll see what I mean:
1. Here’s something I missed, according to Rosalina in the first game and the Lumas in the second, the Lumas that travels with Mario granted him the “power of the stars”. This power is infact, the Star Spin. It’s established that the Power Stars are indeed Lumas, serving as their primary source of power. If we take a look at the boss fights against Bowser in Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser is engaged in combat against Mario, with no amp of his own. Not only is he constantly able to take hits from Mario’s Star Spin, he can also counter it with a spin attack of his own.
2. In return, Mario and co. has fought Bowser amped with power with no amp of their own. Examples include most Yoshi games, Mario Tennis Aces, Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time, among others. And while Mario’s ability to hurt Bowser directly has varies from game to game, what remains consistent is he, at least, able to take hits from from all of them.
3. Finally, there’s a certain feat in SMW2: Yoshi’s Island. Kamek uses his magic to amp Raphael the Raven, who was able to knock Yoshi into a small planetoid. After the battle, Raphael the Raven would be sent flying, resulting into an explosion that resulted in a star being formed. This is undoubtedly due to Kamek’s enhancement and he would use the same type of spell on Bowser, who’s clearly stronger than everyone else.
With the bare minimum of being able to harm a few users of Power Stars, Bowser himself being able to counter and attack the same power source, and Yoshi being able to fight against Bowser using the same type of magic amping enhancement, I believe this warrants a “likely 4-C”. I like to clarify that this will not be applied to every single character. Contrary to popular belief of the supporters, it’s pretty clear that some characters are stronger and more capable than others. So it’s best to decide now other than the two we just mentioned.
Unlike the AP, the speed feats are surprisingly fine. The problem is that they are shared for a single rating. Because of this, I believe all the speed feats related to the Galaxy games should be separated. After all, Rosalind stated the Luma with help Mario traverse across space and Bowser is using the Power and Grand Stars to cross the universe.
So where does leave them in base forms? I think I have found the answer: The Koopa Clown Car and Koopa Jr Clown Car. Both are Bowser and Bowser Jr vehicles. As we see in both Mario Party 8 and Mario Party 9, these vehicles are capable of traveling interstellar distances in a short time frame. It’s admittedly unspecified but clearly no more than a day as Bowser flew off into a star nearby and both him and his son flew to the outskirts of a galaxy and back. Of course, if anyone would like to make a calculation on these, that would be nice.
One might can argue that these are merely space flight feats inapplicable to combat. However, that’s not the case. In both games where the feat is present, the characters have to battle these two within these vehicles. In fact, battle with Bowser and his son in their respective Clown Cars have been frequent throughout the entire series. They are often used for combative purposes. Worth noting that Bowser Jr used in a few sports games even, which may seem dismissible at first, however, the nature of these games are rather combative in comparison to what we are familiar with. Even when the rider is taking evasive maneuvers, the character of choice is still able to react to them.
The amount of occurrences of their uses should support the speed feats, even if it’s not up to par with the Galaxy related feats. Even if we can apply it to the characters normal movement speed, we can apply it to combat speeds and reactions.
4. Evaluation through Different Languages
I’ve been noticing for most of the feats that’s been recently removed and should be removed, many of the reasons that they are used in the first place is because of fan translated dialogue of the Japanese version. I’m going to be real, this is absolutely absurd. This isn’t 4kids/early 90’s dub of unreliable translations. The localization version of these dialogues rarely change what we know AT ALL and the official translation of Super Mario Galaxy is pretty spot on, ironically more than the Japanese attempts. Bowser said he was going to create a new galaxy……twice……and that’s exactly what happened in the cut scene where the Comet Observatory was heading to the center of the universe. The fact people are also trying to use Japan's unique letter and grammar system to fabricate feats in this verse such as using a word to claim that it means universe when it doesn’t add up is just plain ridiculous and the very definition of reaching. I propose that are official translations of this verse will be the ONLY translation until further notice.
Summary
So basically, here’s how we are going to revise the verse:
All the characters with a universal tier in their base will be removed immediately. No more Low 2-C ratings for lowbrow reasons, seriously.
Power Stars are not universal. Low 2-C is out….period.
Every single character who’s been scaled and will be scaled gets their base forms downgraded to the aforementioned feats as soon as these calculations are made for reasons above (I'm guessing they will be somewhere around the Tier 6 or 7 range), with a select few them will be having a “Likely 4-C” included. The amount of wank and leniency that’s been happening with this franchise is insane. Of course, other calcs and feats are welcomed.
The speed feats are overall fine. They just need separated from each other.
We stick to official translations from here on out. We already have more than enough threads that out right debunks them and they are one of the main sources of the conflict and nonsensical upgrades this verse has been getting lately. No more fan translated material of other languages.
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