Super Mario Bros. 2-A CRT

[SuperMarioGamers3]

After a long while me begin going back and forth on making this thread, I decided that today is the day, This will be a 2-A Mario upgrade on the basis of the Dream Depot and Dream Universes, showing that the Dream Depot as a construct is in fact 2-A. This should be quick and simple.

POINT 1: DREAMS ARE UNIVERSES IN MARIO BROS.

The evidence for this is insurmountable and near undeniable at this point, but let's go over all of the important evidence;

1. The Future Dream in MP5 has been stated to be "The Dream of The Universe" and is stated to be an endless dream.

"Welcome to Future Dream! This is a world born from the "dreams of the universe". Everyone admires the universe. We are so excited to be inside an endless dream."

2. The Future Dream Is One Of Many In The Dream Depot, and all dreams are seemingly comparable in size to one another.

3. All the dreams in the Dream Depot are stated to be their own worlds, this being stated from the guidebook to the game itself.

4. The dreams in M&LDT are stated to be their own dimensions and worlds according to Dreambert.

5. Dreams are large enough to contain their own constellations, making them their own dimensions more consistent.

POINT 2: THERE ARE AN INFINITE AMOUNT OF DREAMS WITHIN THE DREAM DEPOT

We know that dreams are created when one sleeps, and each dream is contained within the Dream depot as their own universe. By using the evidence seen within the games, we can reason out that are an infinite amount of these within the Dream Depot. Note that dreams are created when anyone in the verse sleeps and dreams.

We know that paint is what makes up the Marioverse, with it making up life, thoughts, etc. But it also known that Paint itself is sentient, as we see with the Paint Stars and characters like Petey Piranha in Super Mario Sunshine. If paint is sentient and makes up the entire Marioverse, that means that their Dreams also get stored in the dream depot, but how much paint is there? Well, space in Mario is stated to be endless and filled with hopes and dreams;

This means that there are infinite amount of dreams entering the dream depot constantly, which should already make the Dream Depot be a container for an infinite amount of Universes, however, let's assume that there aren't an infinite amount of dreams going into the Dream Depot.

It is shown that in various dreams, one can sleep (and most likely dream) within a dream world. This means that within the dreams, people are dreaming within the dreams, and new dreams are being produced from these new dreams, meaning that it is dreams upon dreams upon dreams, showing that there are endless amount of dreams within the Dream Depot, making it 2-A according to the tiering system of the VBW.

HOW THIS AFFECTS CHARACTERS:

Bowser (and by extension the main cast) should recieve a 2-A rating, since Bowser was going to destroy the entire Dream Depot.

EDIT:
The Star Spirits Are Also Stated To Be The Creators Of The Dream Depot, And Bowser Seems To Scale Above Them Since They Can't Seem To Stop Bowser.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Bowser (and by extension the main cast) should recieve a 2-A rating, since Bowser was going to destroy the entire Dream Depot.

Crazy how he never even destroys a single dream, this "destruction" is more like changing the interior to fit his own desires (so not even an AP feat lol), and he's shown to only do this to one dream at a time and not a literally infinite number. This "feat" doesn't even exist, let alone on this scale.

This should also make any 3-A feats a lot more consistent for the Marioverse in general.

which ones lol

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Even if Bowser destroyed the Dream Depot, this would be a massively Outlier

Btw, you don´t needed to prove that the dreams are universes and that there are infinite dreams, we already accept this here

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Crazy how he never even destroys a single dream, this "destruction" is more like changing the interior to fit his own desires (so not even an AP feat lol), and he's shown to only do this to one dream at a time and not a literally infinite number. This "feat" doesn't even exist, let alone on this scale.

which ones lol

It is literally stated by Misstar that Bowser was going to destroy the Dreams Worlds One By One, and the story heavily implies the entire Depot was going to be affected by this.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Even if Bowser destroyed the Dream Depot, this would be a massively Outlier

Btw, you don´t needed to prove that the dreams are universes and that there are infinite dreams, we already accept this here

I wasn't aware of the infinite amount being accepted here.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I wasn't aware of the infinite amount being accepted here.

This is more explicitly showed on the Paper Mario pages, where some of the characters are 2-A or have 2-A keys

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

This is more explicitly showed on the Paper Mario pages, where some of the characters are 2-A or have 2-A keys

Thanks for telling me. And about it being an outlier, I'll edit the post to add some more feats to make it more consistent.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

It is literally stated by Misstar that Bowser was going to destroy the Dreams Worlds One By One, and the story heavily implies the entire Depot was going to be affected by this.

Then the feat literally can't be 2-A lol

 

[Eseseso]

I'm with Fuji on this one.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Also, like I mentioned before, it's not actual destruction. Bowser is just filling the dreams with his own, "destroying" the original in the process. It's got nothing to do with AP.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, like I mentioned before, it's not actual destruction. Bowser is just filling the dreams with his own, "destroying" the original in the process. It's got nothing to do with AP.

Ok, well now I'm definitely in disagreement with the OP.

Word to the wise Mario Bros, drop 2-A for now and focus on buffing hax for the verse.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Also, like I mentioned before, it's not actual destruction. Bowser is just filling the dreams with his own, "destroying" the original in the process. It's got nothing to do with AP.

That just means Bowser is making his own dreams, and by proxy his own Universes, and if he's doing that on the scale of the entire Depot, that would make Bowser 2-A.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

That just means Bowser is making his own dreams, and by proxy his own Universes, and if he's doing that on the scale of the entire Depot, that would make Bowser 2-A.

He isn't making entire universes from scratch, though. He's just replacing the contents of one dream with something else. That doesn't require multiversal AP, or any AP at all for that matter.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Also, i´m pretty sure we already discussed Bowser supposedly destroying the dream depot in the past

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Also, i´m pretty sure, we already discussed Bowser supposedly destroying the dream depot in the past

If you guys did, I'll just expand on it here.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

If you guys did, I'll just expand on it here.

We already had, like, more than 5 pages of discussing this feat iirc

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

We already had, like, more than 5 pages of discussing this feat iirc

Really? The ones I've seen have been closed down and not open to further replies.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Yeah I got to disagree with you on this one, chief. If Bowser was destroying the Dream Depot by replacing the current dreams inside with his own dreams, then that is nowhere near Multiversal+ in power. Especially if he isn't doing it by scratch and just filling in a preexisting dream with his own dreams.

So hard disagree from me on this CRT, there's no AP going on here.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Yeah I got to disagree with you on this one, chief. If Bowser was destroying the Dream Depot by replacing the current dreams inside with his own dreams, then that is nowhere near Multiversal+ in power. Especially if he isn't doing it by scratch and just filling in a preexisting dream with his own dreams.

So hard disagree from me on this CRT, there's no AP going on here.

This is actually not something present in the JAP version.
I just need to grab the scans/translations.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Yeah I got to disagree with you on this one, chief. If Bowser was destroying the Dream Depot by replacing the current dreams inside with his own dreams, then that is nowhere near Multiversal+ in power. Especially if he isn't doing it by scratch and just filling in a preexisting dream with his own dreams.

So hard disagree from me on this CRT, there's no AP going on here.

"Bwahaha! I’ll destroy this Sweet Dream and turn it into my own, you heeear!!"

I was also able to find an argument from someone I know that I agree with:

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

"Bwahaha! I’ll destroy this Sweet Dream and turn it into my own, you heeear!!"

I was also able to find an argument from someone I know that I agree with:

In order for Bowser to do something like this on the scale of the Depot, Bowser would need to recreate this an infinite amount of times, thus the argument of 2-A.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So who's gonna bring up the fact that the Pure Hearts are 2-A via dreams already...?

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

So who's gonna bring up the fact that the Pure Hearts are 2-A via dreams already...?

Then it'll just make it more consistent, kek.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

This is actually not something present in the JAP version.
I just need to grab the scans/translations.

What's not present in the JP version? That Bowser was going to destroy the Dream Depot only by replacing the preexisting dreams inside with his own dreams? If that's the case, then I don't know why the English scans are being used here if it's apparently wrong.

"Bwahaha! I’ll destroy this Sweet Dream and turn it into my own, you heeear!!"

I was also able to find an argument from someone I know that I agree with:

Okay and does the Japanese translation of the game state HOW he was going to destroy the dreams and replace it with his own differently from the English translation? Because if the JP version still shows that Bowser was doing this by replacing the current dreams with his own dreams, then it changes nothing in all honesty and my disagreement remains the same.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

What's not present in the JP version? That Bowser was going to destroy the Dream Depot only by replacing the preexisting dreams inside with his own dreams? If that's the case, then I don't know why the English scans are being used here if it's apparently wrong.




Okay and does the Japanese translation of the game state HOW he was going to destroy the dreams and replace it with his own differently from the English translation? Because if the JP version still shows that Bowser was doing this by replacing the current dreams with his own dreams, then it changes nothing in all honesty and my disagreement remains the same.

Bowser says;
I will destroy the sweet dream, THEN make my world. It shows that Bowser was going to destroy before making his own Dream.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So who's gonna bring up the fact that the Pure Hearts are 2-A via dreams already...?

Yeah, but this is a different feat, albeit one that isn't even really a feat lol

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Then it'll just make it more consistent, kek.

We also use the same scan as a supporting argument for the 2-A ratings

Here is a blog that explains the 2-A arguments

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

We also use the same scan as a supporting argument for the 2-A ratings

Here is a blog that explains the 2-A arguments

I agree with the blog in general, so I guess we can do that. (With The exception of treating Paper Mario and Mario as separate entities. Mario and Paper Mario are the same individual.)

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Bowser says;
I will destroy the sweet dream, THEN make my world. It shows that Bowser was going to destroy before making his own Dream.

Okay though: HOW was he going to do it in the context? Because Fuji showed evidence in the thread that Bowser's method of destroying the dreams was filling in the already existing ones with his own dreams, showing that Bowser was doing it through his own AP or anything to indicate he was doing it from scratch?

And if it's the same case in the Japanese version then I'm sorry, this isn't a AP feat for Bowser.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Then it'll just make it more consistent, kek.

No, it would just make the feat of base forms a massive outlier if it happened to be valid. There’s no reason for the base forms of characters to be able to match the absolute god tier power source in the verse in power despite being shown to be radically inferior to it.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

I agree with the blog in general, so I guess we can do that. (With The exception of treating Paper Mario and Mario as separate entities. Mario and Paper Mario are the same individual.)

This was pretty extensively debated on the wiki and ended with a massive thread separating them and their canons, it’s the current standards. They still exist in the same multiverse and cosmology, just aren’t the same person.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Okay though: HOW was he going to do it in the context? Because Fuji showed evidence in the thread that Bowser's method of destroying the dreams was filling in the already existing ones with his own dreams, showing that Bowser was doing it through his own AP or anything to indicate he was doing it from scratch?

And if it's the same case in the Japanese version then I'm sorry, this isn't a AP feat for Bowser.

Bowser treating destroying it and remaking it as separate steps of his plan shows that he's not doing it via filling it up with his own dream. This implies that Bowser was using his own AP to do so.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Bowser treating destroying it and remaking it as separate steps of his plan shows that he's not doing it via filling it up with his own dream. This implies that Bowser was using his own AP to do so.

That...doesn't disprove my argument though? Like yes we know that Bowser's plan was to destroy the dream and then remake it, but what I'M saying is that it shows in game that he destroys the dreams by filling in preexisting dreams with his own dreams and subsequently destroying the old as a side effect of that. This has nothing to do with AP, and certainly he's not destroying them entirely and remaking it from scratch.

So again: If Bowser's plan is the same in the JP version, then it means he's not doing it through raw AP and thus it doesn't mean he's 2-A

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

That...doesn't disprove my argument though? Like yes we know that Bowser's plan was to destroy the dream and then remake it, but what I'M saying is that it shows in game that he destroys the dreams by filling in preexisting dreams with his own dreams and subsequently destroying the old as a side effect of that. This has nothing to do with AP, and certainly he's not destroying them entirely and remaking it from scratch.

So again: If Bowser's plan is the same in the JP version, then it means he's not doing it through raw AP and thus it doesn't mean he's 2-A

The fact he's making a distinction between destroying it, THEN remaking it, shows he's not destroying it BY remaking it, which is your argument here.

 

[AStrangeverse]

man, why can't we focus on shizz not pertaining to tiers

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

My stance rn is, leaning towards disagree.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

The fact he's making a distinction between destroying it, THEN remaking it, shows he's not destroying it BY remaking it, which is your argument here.

Yes he destroys it and then remakes the dream by filling in the preexisting dreams with his own dreams, subsequently destroying the old ones and replacing them with his own. Like I get what his plan is, but you're not proving how he's doing it in the first place when evidence has been provided earlier by others that does give an explanation behind how he's achieving this.

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

Yes he destroys it and then remakes the dream by filling in the preexisting dreams with his own dreams, subsequently destroying the old ones and replacing them with his own. Like I get what his plan is, but you're not proving how he's doing it in the first place when evidence has been provided earlier by others that does give an explanation behind how he's achieving this.

That's not what the argument IS.

The argument is that the way Bowser destroys the Dreams is by filling it in with his own personal dream, however, the JAP version shows that Bowser isn't doing that, he's destroying the dream, then making a new one in it's place. The argument they're presenting is that filling the old dream with his new one is how Bowser is destroying the Dream to begin with, which the JAP version contradicts. Bowser is likely using his own power to make the dream.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

That's not what the argument IS.

The argument is that the way Bowser destroys the Dreams is by filling it in with his own personal dream, however, the JAP version shows that Bowser isn't doing that, he's destroying the dream, then making a new one in it's place. The argument they're presenting is that filling the old dream with his new one is how Bowser is destroying the Dream to begin with, which the JAP version contradicts. Bowser is likely using his own power to make the dream.

What does this statement from Bowser say in the Japanese version of the game if you have a source? And I'm not talking about his statement in Future Dream, I want to know what he says here in Pirate Dream and if he differentiates from the English version where he destroys the dreams by filling in existing ones with his own.

And I have a second question: How is this is not an outlier when Bowser's most direct durability feat in the series was surviving, but being knocked out by, a universe sized black hole at the end of Galaxy 1?

 

[SuperMarioGamers3]

What does this statement from Bowser say in the Japanese version of the game if you have a source? And I'm not talking about his statement in Future Dream, I want to know what he says here in Pirate Dream and if he differentiates from the English version where he destroys the dreams by filling in existing ones with his own.

And I have a second question: How is this is not an outlier when Bowser's most direct durability feat in the series was surviving, but being knocked out by, a universe sized black hole at the end of Galaxy 1?

In the Pirate Dream, iirc, he just says that the Dream belongs to him now, which I assume is him justifying destroying it.

As for your second question, I'll add to it to make 2-A not an outlier.