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Mario AP Downgrade

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CloverDragon03 said:
I figured, and I do prefer that, in which case a note should be made that specifies which ones are just unquantifiably higher than his normal AP and which ones are Low 6-B
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Maybe I can just write in AP something like this? "(While most of Mario's power-ups only amplify his power by a lesser amount, or simply grant him new abilities, some of his stronger ones such as Giga Cat Mario grant him amps that put him on the level of Dark Fury Bowser)"
 
Armorchompy said:
Maybe I can just write in AP something like this? "(While most of Mario's power-ups only amplify his power by a lesser amount, or simply grant him new abilities, some of his stronger ones such as Giga Cat Mario grant him amps that put him on the level of Dark Fury Bowser)"
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Ehhh, should be noted that many of his power-ups let him fight with Bowser and actually harm him, but otherwise looks fine
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Wouldn’t that then just become another giga outlier since there’s currently no other accepted universal feats for base forms lol.
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Pretty sure the Void destroying that universe and the Paper co surviving it is accepted, just treated as an outlier
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
Remind me, why do we assume Paper Mario just gets stronger?
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ZH7p1s0.png
 
Man this thread has already became notorious...geez anywho I finally caught up and read everything and honestly I've got mixed feelings about the downgrade. On one hand I do agree with the current downgrades to tier 6 but on the other hand I feel that very valid points were made by both sides on the topic at hand as I did find myself dancing between smasher and armor but I also understand this isn't a very easy situation considering how long Mario has been around and with how wildly inconsistent the series has been with us just accepting everything as it came before.

I personally do feel that eventually we very well could get Mario back to a higher rating but 6-C isn't a bad start and I think what lots of people are failing to understand here is that this downgrade isn't an end all be all and that tier 6 isn't just some hard cap being made for the verse with no way out. This thread is literally just a start of a process where damn near every staff member and user has agreed this is a difficult place and there's no definitive place we can just outright place mario that won't be even a little arbitrarily picked but at least the tier 6 explanation has good grounds to stand on.

Its too late really to hope no permanently ill has been created by this thread I mean...its 5 pages long already and someone already quit the wiki because of it😬 but even still instead of continuing whataboutisms and threating to spam downgrade other verses which is just incredibly toxic and not the thing the wiki needs peeps here who want that higher rating should keep an open mind and not really see this as a end all kinda deal since there's no grounds really for things to be stuck at tier 6 and its not like there's discussion rules in place from getting Mario back at higher tiers. I'll say to those who want Mario back at a higher rating and to those who researched a lot for this downgrade and gathering feats, continue to search for a consistent grounds to stand on and looking for more potential higher end and mid end feats for what's casual and what's not, I mean its not like there won't continue to be more and more mario games.

I personally am gonna pray we get a 3d Mario game that lets base mario at endgame fight an actual like continent or planet sized bad guy and do some serious damage to them lol🙏
 
DaReaperMan said:
but matches
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I've said this once and I'll say it again. Just because this is "VS Battles Wiki" doesn't mean we favour matchup potential over accuracy. The point of the profiles is so we can accurately cover these characters in the VS format

If we change profiles just so they can "be in more matchups", we're losing the plot
 
Lonkitt said:
I've said this once and I'll say it again. Just because this is "VS Battles Wiki" doesn't mean we favour matchup potential over accuracy. The point of the profiles is so we can accurately cover these characters in the VS format

If we change profiles just so they can "be in more matchups", we're losing the plot
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It was a joke Lonkitt, if it wasn't I wouldn't be such a hound for accuracy in my verses and would have changed, say, Warcraft from 7-A(A tier with nobody in it) a long time ago
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Pretty sure the Void destroying that universe and the Paper co surviving it is accepted, just treated as an outlier
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I don’t think that one is accepted? It’s always been a very contentious and debated feat, and I’ve never seen it mentioned as accepted here.
 
6 pages? Jesus

Guys, conclude it. We have 7 agreements with one single disagreement, more decisive can't be.
 
So, "At least tier 8/7, possibly 6-C, higher with Power-Ups, up to Low 6-B with [the specific powerup(s)]"?
 
I think we just decided on something like "6-C, up to Low 6-B with Power-Ups" with a note in the AP section about how not all power-ups give the same boost

In addition, did we really get to the matter of characters amped by Power Stars/Grand Stars?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I think we just decided on something like "6-C, up to Low 6-B with Power-Ups" with a note in the AP section about how not all power-ups give the same boost
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Hmm, sure.
CloverDragon03 said:
In addition, did we really get to the matter of characters amped by Power Stars/Grand Stars?
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Yeah, unless I missed this part of the discussion, I feel like there's still a bit more to discuss before applying this and closing the thread.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
I think we just decided on something like "6-C, up to Low 6-B with Power-Ups" with a note in the AP section about how not all power-ups give the same boost

In addition, did we really get to the matter of characters amped by Power Stars/Grand Stars?
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basically, base chars scale to them directly, so it would be an outlier for them as well

as far as i kept up with the thread that is, don't quote me on that
 
omegabronic said:
basically, base chars scale to them directly, so it would be an outlier for them as well

as far as i kept up with the thread that is, don't quote me on that
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Well I'm very iffy on base characters scaling given how Power Stars and especially Grand Stars are treated within the games themselves. This is especially glaring for Grand Stars, as a Grand Star was literally the power source for Bowser creating a new galaxy in Super Mario Galaxy. It's something beyond his normal capabilities. The same applies to Super Mario Galaxy 2. Normally, Base Mario and Base Bowser are comparable to one another, and then Bowser straight up eats a Grand Star to grow even stronger.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Well I'm very iffy on base characters scaling given how Power Stars and especially Grand Stars are treated within the games themselves. This is especially glaring for Grand Stars, as a Grand Star was literally the power source for Bowser creating a new galaxy in Super Mario Galaxy. It's something beyond his normal capabilities. The same applies to Super Mario Galaxy 2. Normally, Base Mario and Base Bowser are comparable to one another, and then Bowser straight up eats a Grand Star to grow even stronger.
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well, that problem also exists with the current ratings as well tbh, since we currently scale power stars to grand stars as well as all the base cast to them.....now with this thread, separating ratings for them seems like a good way to go
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
I'm sorry, considering a whole bloody discord server was created before to downgrade mario, i really can't blame anyone for thinking something is up here in terms of bias
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I will address that Discord for the sake of transparency and since I am the current owner of it. Armors thread was not coordinated via this Discord and his blog was created entirely independently of it. While he did share a few drafts for the thread, only I and one other member of the server commented on it and no changes were made to it through coordinated efforts, nor was the timing of him posting this thread coordinated there either. The truth is that the scary anti-Mario boogie man server has been de facto inactive since around mid 2022. After nearly 10 months of arguing in threads for numerous downgrades we were burnt out and unmotivated to continue and many members of the server have either left entirely or gone inactive on it.

To tackle to argument of "bias", if the definition of bias is not thinking Mario can punch out Cosmic Skyfather tier characters than sure we are biased, whatever. If bias is anything that isn't in favor of the highest possible rating then go ahead and call me biased but please know that if that is what bias is then it doesn't matter and I do not care. If, however, what you mean when you say bias is that you are accusing us of trying to downgrade Mario so that "our favorite characters" can beat him then this accusation could not be further from the truth, it is based purely in bad faith interpretation and you will find no statement from I, Armor, or anyone else who led the old downgrade thread efforts to confirm this. Accuracy was always and still is the goal.
 
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As I've said before, I don't mind 3-C ratings being re-applied solely for amps, but I would prefer that to be a different thread since getting enough attention on that discussion here and now will be pretty hard, six pages in.

I'm currently a bit busy with something of the utmost importance (I bought Hades yesterday, it's very fun) but I'll give a list of pages I need unlocked soon enough.
 
Alright so... 204 pages, huh. Might take breaks in-between applying all of this, so don't fret if you see some 3-C ratings still up tomorrow.

What do we like... do with the Power Star page? It's well made, and I don't want to delete it, so I'd like to just add a note that says that it's agreed the 3-C rating currently doesn't scale to the cast.

Pages I need unlocked:
Other pages I need to edit: These are listed here as a note to myself.
Also I realized I can't just CTRL+F and replace "Galaxy" cause otherwise we'd end up with Super Mario Island on the Nintendo Wii lol
 
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