Super Mario Series Revision (Well, more of downgrade)

[DaReaperMan]

Would like to point out that Mario is never as any point powered by 120 or more, he's never even powered by 1, actually. In Mario 64 the Power Stars are used to restore the castle, in the Galaxy games the Power Stars power the respective space ships.

Yeah, that's what I found iffy about that calc.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

The Power Stars are literally directly said to give him power in 64 though?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

We also have the Comets, which are likely the Power Stars themselves, making it so Mario can die to even fodder in a single hit having severely depowered him as well as Fast-Foe ones making others faster and Koopa the Quick insinuating you've gotten faster in your second race and presumes that it's the power of the stars that made you faster.

Pretty sure they amp. Literally made a tiny Wiggler grow from their power similar to the Grand Stars with Bowser.

Mario and Bowser are also both said to have "the power of the stars"

 

[Armorchompy]

Could just be a gameplay thing. In cutscenes and the entirety of World 6 we can clearly see Mario's black holes function fine enough. The one at rhe end of Galaxy for example eats away ships far from it. It could be a similar case with the galaxies in that gameplay makes them look small and insignificant but we know full-sized galaxies exist and are likely what they're referring to.

This has nothing to do with game mechanics, it's something that the developers specifically chose to have the black holes do in a level, it's not some minor tweak to the rules of the world to make the game more fun, it's a specific addition with no direct relation to gameplay. yall really need to stop overusing the concept of game mechanic.

 

[Seol404]

We also have the Comets, which are likely the Power Stars themselves, making it so Mario can die to even fodder in a single hit having severely depowered him as well as Fast-Foe ones making others faster and Koopa the Quick insinuating you've gotten faster in your second race and presumes that it's the power of the stars that made you faster.

Pretty sure they amp. Literally made a tiny Wiggler grow from their power similar to the Grand Stars with Bowser.

Mario and Bowser are also both said to have "the power of the stars"

If Mario was amped by 120 Stars he would have iced Bowser in one punch, even if he is amped, it's not by much, certainly not to the extent proposed in the calc. And no you can't say "Well maybe he did one-shot Bowser and the fight is just for gameplay", if you make this argument you are stretching the foundation of what is canon to the point where the things that happen in game can just not be what happens, which is somewhat okay in some instances, but the developers had a clear intent of how the fight plays out, so to assume it does otherwise would be ignoring the game in favor of headcanon.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do agree that the "Multiplying the calc by 120 or 150" part should be removed from the blog and should just stick to the calculated feat.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

This has nothing to do with game mechanics, it's something that the developers specifically chose to have the black holes do in a level, it's not some minor tweak to the rules of the world to make the game more fun, it's a specific addition with no direct relation to gameplay. yall really need to stop overusing the concept of game mechanic.

Galaxy is like the biggest example of things having inconsistent sizes when we know planets and galaxies are consistently portrayed as their actual sizes.

If your argument is "well It's not a gameplay thing" then actually prove me wrong.

Galaxy is a series where things are meant to represent the actual cosmic objects, which we see are their literal size in Galaxy 2 from the World backgrounds.

Why SHOULD we treat these black holes any differently than we treat Lumas becoming planets, stars, and galaxies despite the direct feats in Galaxy showing these aren't exactly faithful depictions of those? It's because they are supposed to represent the actual objects. We see the actual objects outside of gameplay and they function fine.

Unless you want to revise the Luma stuff as well and tell us galaxies and planets (that have been consistently their actual size) were suddenly shrunken for one game NOT explicitly because of the gameplay then this argument is moot.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

If Mario was amped by 120 Stars he would have iced Bowser in one punch, even if he is amped, it's not by much, certainly not to the extent proposed in the calc. And no you can't say "Well maybe he did one-shot Bowser and the fight is just for gameplay", if you make this argument you are stretching the foundation of what is canon to the point where the things that happen in game can just not be what happens, which is somewhat okay in some instances, but the developers had a clear intent of how the fight plays out, so to assume it does otherwise would be ignoring the game in favor of headcanon.

But Mario did use the power of the stars though. That was my entire point.

I don't care about the multiplying or whatever. Hell, being amped by the general uniformity of the power of all of the stars is likely more proof base does scale. Without multipliers he was closer to base power fighting an amped Bowser then

 

[Armorchompy]

Galaxy is like the biggest example of things having inconsistent sizes when we know planets and galaxies are consistently portrayed as their actual sizes.

Didn't even mention size.

If your argument is "well It's not a gameplay thing" then actually prove me wrong.

I don't need to prove shit, you do.

Galaxy is a series where things are meant to represent the actual cosmic objects, which we see are their literal size in Galaxy 2 from the World backgrounds.

Why SHOULD we treat these black holes any differently than we treat Lumas becoming planets, stars, and galaxies despite the direct feats in Galaxy showing these aren't exactly faithful depictions of those? It's because they are supposed to represent the actual objects. We see the actual objects outside of gameplay and they function fine.

"They represent stuff" isn't an argument when they blatantly behave in a different way.

Unless you want to revise the Luma stuff as well and tell us galaxies and planets (that have been consistently their actual size) were suddenly shrunken for one game NOT explicitly because of the gameplay then this argument is moot.

Again, I didn't mention size, size needs to be reduced for gameplay, that is necessary and can be considered a game mechanic. Giving the black holes such weird behavior is not a necessary compromise made for gameplay benefits.

 

[DragonLord]

Also, do black holes conjoin immediately when next to each other?

Yes, I mean, black holes constantly suck in nearby space, so if they met another black hole they’d just become 1

How long does that process take?

About a few seconds to a few minutes depending on size angle distance etc. of course relativity and the nature of black holes make such an estimation difficult, but it would be at least enough to where they’d be conjoined before even entering Bowser’s castle

We can't even prove their distances from each other based on that screenshot either.

Look close enough to me, but here’s Two of them right next to eachother anyway

 

[Arceus0x]

Pretty sure they slowly collide and then fuse, not just instant fusion

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Seol404]

But Mario did use the power of the stars though. That was my entire point.

I don't care about the multiplying or whatever. Hell, being amped by the general uniformity of the power of all of the stars is likely more proof base does scale. Without multipliers he was closer to base power fighting an amped Bowser then

If he is amped by the Stars then it is by an unquantifiable amount, so that calc can not be used to justify anything higher than the 4-C range at most.

 

[Seol404]

So what are the conclusions here?

None so far.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. That is unfortunate.

Would you or some other knowledgeable member be willing to write an explanation of the relevant arguments here, so some more staff members can evaluate them, or was this discussion premature and should be closed?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think this should be closed

 

[Antvasima]

I am leaning in that direction as well.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Yeah, this thread brought up even more feats that could use proper analysis. I feel like it would be best to tackle them individually, or at least group them better.

 

[Seol404]

I'm in agreement with closing this, the only conclusion reached was the removal of Low 2-C, which has been done. I think it would be best to close this and tackle the remaining feats that have not been agreed upon in proper CRTs of their own.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.