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Super Mario Cosmology CRT: Dreams and Grand Worlds

So a portal leading to a "world" which you even said not to inflate as universes in the very same message in MP5 is okay but not in Galaxy 2? Literally what supports that claim? Please show me. I'm not seeing how the cases are any different. My claim is the same as yours but with more evidence from the games.

Seems a little contradictory. How do you know that's it's own space? How do you know Galaxy 2's aren't a different space?

And sorry, but I don't think being chapter titles invalidates anything. Did you miss "A World of Wonder" for World 4? Clearly a descriptor.
 
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Like, we are told these worlds in Galaxy 2 are new and unknown worlds and then in Party a random world that's also been called a land is mentioned and the game talks about how it's in the night sky able to be observed and how it receives the dreams of the world. The world, as in Mario's world, meaning it's a part of it. How much more blatant can it get? It'd be hypocritical to accept one and not the other.

I can go further and say how Misstar lumps herself in with the people of the world when talking about dreaming which further shows they are part of the world.
 
"New and unknown worlds" can also refer to planets. So I guess the galaxies in Super Mario Galaxy are planets now.
 
The point is frame of reference. Galaxy has grander cosmological objects mentioned all the time and world can contextually be supported to mean universe.

In MP5's case no such context exists. The Drean Depot isn't called "another" world or a different one nor separate and you apparently access it the same way you access worlds in Galaxy 2, and despite Dream Depot being called a land of dreams and observable in the night sky IT is supposedly completely separate for... Unknown and unfounded reasons.

We went through a portal and there was space in it!!!!

Yeah, and as I was informed in this thread going through a portal to a place with space in the background and it being called a "world" can still apparently refer to just an area in the universe.

Like, It's pretty blatantly hypocritical.
 
In terms of the Dreamy Bowser stuff, I’m assuming the 53 worlds are corresponding to the number of Pi’illos. But some of the pi’illos occupy the same stretch of space, which seemingly indicates that the different Pi’illos of each area of the map are all clustered in the same general world. So it’s more like 7-9 worlds max.
 
Yeah, I was also gonna bring that up. The Pi'illos do indeed occupy the same spaces in the regions of the Dream World you visit that correspond toward the Real World locations.

Though I should add they were trapped in individual nightmares, meaning like several nightmares existing at once within the dream, which should probably be comparable to the dreams I imagine.
 
Ahhh, that's right. Oh well.

Sad to see a pretty low end for 2-C from being one of the higher 2-Bs on the site but we gotta remain accurate.
 
That’s assuming it’s even 2-C at all, worlds in this case could mean the same thing as worlds in Galaxy 2, just being segments of a universe.
 
Segments of a universe depends. If you accept Dream Depot as separate then Galaxy 2's worlds have more context going for them supporting them being universes for reasons I've said plenty of times and it's hypocritical to think otherwise. Part of my argument for Galaxy 2's Worlds being universe-sized was literally used by the opposition in favor of the Dream Depot thing.

But pretty sure real world being constantly compared with the dream world is enough proof like in the Power Star thread that the Dream Worlds are universes. They also has starry skies, dimensional fabrics and thusly space-time within the Dream World so I feel context supports it
 
Pfft a upgrade thread ended up to a downgrade lol
But i'm sure there is many ph'illo citizens, enemies, bosses and since it existed for an era and you can dream inside a dream (so dream worlds residents and enemies count), i think it's more than low end 2-C
 
JJSliderman said:
Trapped in nightmare chunks, aka pieces of a full nightmare.
Click to expand...
The Dark Stone is a solid manifestation of nightmares, plural. These nightmares are likely all the bad dreams of the Pi'illo Kingdom, prior to the Dark Stone being destroyed.

JJSliderman said:
That’s assuming it’s even 2-C at all, worlds in this case could mean the same thing as worlds in Galaxy 2, just being segments of a universe.
Click to expand...
The Dream World(s) can't be segments of the Mario universe. They're explicitly separated from the real world.

JJSliderman said:
In terms of the Dreamy Bowser stuff, I’m assuming the 53 worlds are corresponding to the number of Pi’illos. But some of the pi’illos occupy the same stretch of space, which seemingly indicates that the different Pi’illos of each area of the map are all clustered in the same general world. So it’s more like 7-9 worlds max.
Click to expand...
Has it actually been shown that the Pi'illos occupy the same space (i.e. can you travel from one to another within the dreams)? Because Dreambert strongly implies that the dream worlds are separate, + Bowser's Dream kinda proves it as well.

Anyways, Pure Hearts + Chaos Heart will basically never be Low 2-C. On top of the Dream Worlds, there's also every other world in Super Paper Mario and any other universes that exist in Mario that were going to be destroyed by the void.
 
As for Dream Depot, again, I'll reiterate, "the sky" being said at all in reference to it's position implies it can be observed within the world. Using that story text as support for it being a separate dimension because of vague "beyond the stars", wording is one of the worst on the site if we actually keep that, especially given the fact Mario's World is directly mentioned in that same story blurb via Mario being mentioned as being the biggest dreamer in the world and the Star Spirits talk about Dream Depot receiving Dreams from all over the world (still Mario's "world") and it's the only world referred to across the game because Dream Depot is never given a statement that it's parallel or separate or existing in another universe. There is literally nothing but personal headcanon. Where's that determination for proof the "World" of Dream Depot means universe when that's been the primary reason and source of so many CRTs on the site? Needing sources and extensive context supporting vague "worlds" being universes or dimensions? This place was also literally called a land of dreams as well, both in the official story and in game fron the main menu upon first entering. Funny, because the "world" the characters create in Mario Party 2 is called Mario Land and was definitely not a separate dimension. It's consistent within the very series itself. There is literally no support "world" within the context of the Mario Party series as a whole equates to a different dimension or even something like a universe at all, unless I've missed a game.

People wanted direct proof for prior threads and I'm asking for that now and get absolutely nothing and even have one of my own argument regurgitated at my face regarding a portal taking you to a new space, which is super vague in MP5 and has like no context backing it.

But let's say they do have their own space, what's to say these Dream Worlds accessed via portals mean the Dream Depot has to he a separate dimension? These can easily be small bubbles that transport you to those dream dimensions while the actual Dream Depot is still a physical place containing them all. Bowser kinda just shows up uninvited and also leaves dreams without portals as well as in the ending. So what gives? If portals are needed then why does Bowser seemingly physically travel instead of using portals? If you don't need portals then clearly it's a physical place you can travel through with no indication it's another dimension. And, again, the portal thing was written off by others earlier when I said it with even more context behind it for Galaxy 2's Worlds so it's entirely fair for us to dismiss this argument completely, right?
 
For Pi’illos being in the same space, there’s a segment in Dreamy Pajamaja where you find four Pi’illos basically next to each other in the area
 
Regarding Dream Team, that's a good point. The Japanese says basically the exact same thing. Dream Worlds plural.

Though this could refer to "worlds" as in the areas of the Dream World itself, since each one is labeled a Dreamy version of the place you currently reside in and yes you do find multiple Pi'illos in the same area.
 
JJSliderman said:
For Pi’illos being in the same space, there’s a segment in Dreamy Pajamaja where you find four Pi’illos basically next to each other in the area
Click to expand...
Foxthefox1000 said:
Though this could refer to "worlds" as in the areas of the Dream World itself, since each one is labeled a Dreamy version of the place you currently reside in and yes you do find multiple Pi'illos in the same area.
Click to expand...
Where? Can you link this?

Also, that's a weird assumption to make. The dream worlds are formed from Luigi's subconciousness, which is why they look like areas you're currently in + even have versions of characters that you've recently met. Why would "world" be referring to part of a world? Dream World is consistently used in parallel to the Real World, they each should be comparable in size.
 
JJSliderman said:

Go to 1:02
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. I believe that is an exception however.

Take Big Massif for example. To find him in his dream world, Luigi had to sleep next to him as sleeping next to someone on a dreampoint can cause two people to share the same dream. This is described as getting into Big Massif's dream world. A similar thing happens with Bowser near the end of the game, where Mario and Luigi have to get into his dream world by connecting to the vines that carry Bowser's dream energy.
 
That is true, but considering all the unique dreams still have the same aesthetic as the other normal dream worlds of the area, I interpreted it more as these just being special segments of an existing dream world, in the same vein as something like special Palace sections in Persona 5
 
Bump.

A downgrade seems generally agreed on but there seems to be differing opinions on how much we'd downgrade.

Also the argument for keeping the Dream Depot listed as a separate dimension/realm has issues, and there's still no direct proof of the size or it's placement at all, where there's all the context and direct statements saying it's in the world as in the world Mario is from and can be observed "beyond the sky" somewhere. Also official sources likening this "world" to a land with no proof World means a separate dimension within the context of Mario Party 5.

Meanwhile the Worlds in Galaxy 2 have many supporting pieces of evidence and context, and the only argument in support of the Dream Depot being separate was almost word-for-word an argument I presented for Galaxy 2.

This definitely needs more discussion.
 
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Bump.

I'll also add a new thought that occurred to me from the Wario thread.

We list Dreamy Luigi manipulating constellations as a feat, don't we?

But... how do we know those are actually real stars?

Yes, we know the Dream World is parallel to the real world and they are universes, so the likelihood of real stars existing is true, but how can we definitely say Luigi manipulated actual stars instead of just one full of the "Stars" we can observe from the Star Driver animation? We even see other stars during that animation which look to be small just like that one, and the stars within the constellation are small just like the stars we see in the Star Driver animation, visibly morphing into Luigis which appear no bigger than the stars themselves.

I think it's pretty evident that these aren't actual stars being manipulated here and it should be removed from the relevant profiles.
 
Yeah it’s extremely evident these stars aren’t er, star-sized.
image0.png

Although this feat is (was) just High 4-C anyway, thousands of times weaker than their current Tier, and only listed on one profile, so not a big loss
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
I think it's pretty evident that these aren't actual stars being manipulated here and it should be removed from the relevant profiles.
Click to expand...
Maverick_Zero_X said:
image0.png
Click to expand...
Uhhhhhh.... yeaaaaaah..... I have not looked closely into this specific thing yet... but like, even I can tell these stars aren't actual stars you can scale from (unless Luigi is star-sized). How did this feat get into the profile in the first place? It's beyond me.
 
AKM sama said:
unless Luigi is star-sized
Click to expand...
A̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶p̶o̶i̶n̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶.̶
 
Ohhhh, yeah, probably Unless someone brings up new evidence from the Japanese text.

And like I've said in the thread It's still questionable if Dream Depot is even a separate realm. The "proof" for it is very weak.
 
Ive only read the 3-B part so far (cant be bothered to read the rest lol) and 3-B would only scale to the "worlds" that contain them, not the individual "galaxies".

Also i think that dreamy luigi should be removed from antasmas page... heck the stars have a completely different design than the actual stars in the background as well as them yeahhh... blatantly not being star sized and up close looking at the camera movement in the scene... as well as them straight up moving in front of a background filled with nothing but sand later on...
 
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I'd still like a better argument than ones of incredulity to actually dismiss the Dream Depot and Worlds being universes thing. Not to mention the blatant hypocrisy in the argument a portal means Dream. Depot is separate.
 
Tbf in the Dreambeats segment of the game we only really see dreams from Pi’illo Island itself powering the Dream Stone, so I think saying the Stone is concentrated on the island is a possible answer.
 
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