Spatial dimensions in Shinza

[Mercurius577]

Firstly about Yakou's "24D barrier" I saw arguments that said that these are not layers/spatial dimensions but could have been just "An barrier in a dimensional dislocation between an interdimensional space, wich can be:

A) Fragmented dimensions within his reality, same dimensions that suffer a compactation in their structures and strings (String Theory's dimensions).

B) Large dimensions due to the barrier be capable of halting blows from all sides (Large Extra Dimensions)."

Or like, are there scans that multiverse IS legit the lowest floor in Shinza, and others exist transcendent upon it representing dimensions? And that scan With soujirou and akuro, wasn't that all about how akuro has taikyoku and soujirou does not, alas why it was said they are "dissconnected", aka that Soujirou's attacks meant nothing in comparasion. And even if we say its true and has nothing to do with taikyoku (which i fairly doubt) what does it have to do with 24D barrier's scale.

Like the main thing is are these 24D things having proof to be actually considered spatial dimensions which are transcendent over one another and represent higher layers? I didnt saw them so i want to.

 

[Darksmash]

As far as I know About the higher dimensions it gives a "Reality>Painting" analogy.

 

[Mercurius577]

Yes but i don't remember it was pointed out onto spatials in shinza but about that taikyoku thing with soujirou vs akuro

 

[Stocking.exe]

Bumpy

 

[GLHF22]

Following

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Spatial dimensions be weird. Normally, in real life, the concept of them and rationalizing them is pretty comprehensive. But then fiction comes in and utterly destroys any logic we could give to shit like this, and spatial/dimensional hax is the worst offender of being either too vague or too ill-defined in canon.

I genuinely don't know and am curious to see what others say

 

[QuasiYuri]

In the CRT, people used Akuro's explanation to justify the nature of higher-D, because it gives a comparison that would be used as such (even if using a supposedly High 1-A character to justify higher dimensionnal difference is weird imo).

The barrier scale to the explanation because of this part:

ÒüùÒüªÒÇüþÁÁÒü½þÅ¥Õ«ƒÒü»Õ«│ÒüøÒü¬ÒüÅÒüªÒééÒÇüþÅ¥Õ«ƒÒüîþÁÁÒéÆþá┤ÕúèÒüÖÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü»Õ«╣µÿôÒü½Õç║µØÑÒéïÒÇé Ú½ÿµ¼íÕàâÒüïÒéëõ¢Äµ¼íÕàâÒü©Òü«µö╗µÆâÒü»ÒÇüÞÁñÕ¡ÉÒü«µëïÒéƵì╗ÒéïÒéêÒéèÒééÚÇÜÒüùÒéäÒüÖÒüäÒÇé

which explains the nature of higher dimension and why Akuro wasn't affected by Soujirou and Shiori's attacks.

However there's clearly something off about this: the explanation refers to Akuro and Soujirou, but we use it to justify him and others to High 1-A, while it implies that Gods are higher-dimensional beings with this part as well as this part (which describe it as "another phase of physics).

ÒüØÒéîÒü»þ┤½þ╣öÒü«µï│ÒéÆÕÅùÒü浡óÒéüÒüƒÒü¿ÒüìÒü¿ÕÉÿÒüºÒÇüÚáæÕ╝ÀÒüòÒü¿Þ¿ÇÒüåÒéêÒéèÕêÑõ¢ìþø©Òü«þë®þÉåÒéÆþø«Òü½ÒüùÒüƒÒüïÒü«ÒéêÒüåÒüáÒüúÒüƒÒÇé

If it weren't for forum move, a CRT about this would be a good thing after it.

 

[GLHF22]

You can save the thread here

https://archive.org/web/

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ill have to look but in the CRT that turned the Shinza Gods into High 1-As there was a scan or two about the Multiverse being the lowest floor.

We've had like 5 threads now questioning Shinza's tier

Id also just like to ask to make sure that you have looked over the CRT correct? Id just like to be sure just incase the question was answered in the thread.

 

[PsychoWarper]

However there's clearly something off about this: the explanation refers to Akuro and Soujirou, but we use it to justify him and others to High 1-A, while it implies that Gods are higher-dimensional beings with this part as well as this part (which describe it as "another phase of physics).

Please tell me this isn't implying that this is a major reason that they are High 1-A?

 

[Mercurius577]

Okay,if its alright when the thread continues can the scans be posted here on this thread? About the multiverse floor scans i was unable to find them on the CRT, maybe because i cannot read japanese and hence it was all over the place on the same thread. Also how do you comment on this scan i found? https://imgur.com/a/G8FgJHb This is what people use for a 5D argument for shinza along with mentions of things like "changing the time axis" and hyperdimensional being fodder

 

[QuasiYuri]

However there's clearly something off about this: the explanation refers to Akuro and Soujirou, but we use it to justify him and others to High 1-A, while it implies that Gods are higher-dimensional beings with this part as well as this part (which describe it as "another phase of physics).

Please tell me this isn't implying that this is a major reason that they are High 1-A?

We use it to justify the nature of higher dimensions, which is one of the main thing that makes the 1-A justifications which lead to High 1-A in the first place.

There's also some things pretty wrong like The Throne being magically considered as a mere tool for any Gods despite beings even above Hajun especially making sure that nothing become more advanced than the Throne.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Also how do you comment on this scan i found? https://imgur.com/a/G8FgJHb This is what people use for a 5D argument for shinza along with mentions of things like "changing the time axis" and hyperdimensional being fodder

Isn't this the explanation about Merc introducing the concept of parallel universes? I'm pretty sure it's that.

Everything in here ("multidimensionnal" and "time axis" included) talk about how great the creation of parallel universes is compared to his predecessors, and how everything previously were only a single universe.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ant: Do not make serious CRT

Community: Then let's make a Q&A board that literally brings into question the tiering for literally the entirety of 1 of the most popular verses on the site.

Foolproof strategy.

 

[PsychoWarper]

The Gods can destroy the Throne on a whim, hell Merc and Rein did destroy it iirc.

Also are the Gods you are referring to Naraka? Cause using anything from Pantheon at this point is pointless.

Anyway Ravenous might comment here tho they are busy IRL and Alfy may comment here so those are the main two.

 

[Mercurius577]

At this rate mentioning naraka is pointless.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Isn't this the explanation about Merc introducing the concept of parallel universes? I'm pretty sure it's that.

Everything in here ("multidimensionnal" and "time axis" included) talk about how great the creation of parallel universes is compared to his predecessors, and how everything previously were only a single universe.

Yeah using DI alone the Gods are like 2-A to 1-C at best iirc.

The vast majority of the cosmology was changed/shown and explained in K3.

 

[Mercurius577]

All i wanna see is these scans as i said

Multiverse being the lowest floor

Justfications for 24D barrier which correlates to the existance of spacial layered dimensions in shinza

 

[QuasiYuri]

The Gods can destroy the Throne on a whim, hell Merc and Rein did destroy it iirc.
Also are the Gods you are referring to Naraka? Cause using anything from Pantheon at this point is pointless.

Destroying the Throne isn't actually that easy, Merc was kinda dying when the Throne was destroyed. Also it seems that it didn't really stopped its power to be, so it would be more a case of "AP greater than durability", since the Throne is more a "system" to begin with. Not to mention there's litteraly Naraka in it.

"Beings even above Hajun" is what I use to talk about Naraka yeah. Gods is just for Hadou/Gudou.

However I do think that Pantheon can be used, even if the game itself was kinda canceled as a game (?). It's still pretty important lore informations, which never were really retconned or contradicted in the verse.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Like I said ALRF/Sleepy and Ravenous will be the best bets as they are the most knowledgeable.

I can not speak Japanese so best I can show is untranslated stuff unless I go out and find it.

 

[PsychoWarper]

"Beings even above Hajun" is what I use to talk about Naraka yeah. Gods is just for Hadou/Gudou.

However I do think that Pantheon can be used, even if the game itself was kinda canceled as a game (?). It's still pretty important lore informations, which never were really retconned or contradicted in the verse.

We know little about Pantheon and anything that happens within it meaning we have little to no context so using things from Pantheon is sketchy.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Weren't Naraka mentionned in K3? They also are technically present in Dies Irae and Paradise Lost through sensories. Avesta of Black and White also basically shows us characters only shown in what we know of Pantheon, so it would be legit to us to some extents.

I'm more talking about the information given to us which refer to thing pre-Pantheon. Wouldn't Pantehon be usable as support proof instead of primary proof too? As long as it doesn't make huge contradictions.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ravenous said they will be commenting soon so uh there... now I have to sleep.

 

[Mercurius577]

Epic then, i hope ravenous gives the scans ig

 

[SleepyTBubble]

I like how Yuri tries to insert more of his fanfiction about Shinza

Genuine question, have you read K3 ?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I did yes, although I'm not necessary an expert.

Also, which part is supposed to be a "fanfiction"? I'm pretty sure that just saying this is a kind of fallacy. If I'm wrong, directly pointing the problematic part would be better than saying things like that.

 

[Ravenous4th]

I currently do not have any scans with me right now, so I can only answer with what I know - hoping that the scans would be provided by someone else, or that I will care enough to dig through bunch of CRTs and scans I've saved and post them here.

@Mercurius577

Multiverse being the lowest floor

I can't remember where this was explicitly mentioned, but it can be rather safely inferred from the fact that both the Singularity and the Throne resides in a much metaphysically greater depth - which has been consistently portrayed as something metaphysically superior.

Justfications for 24D barrier which correlates to the existance of spacial layered dimensions in shinza

The quotes on the revision thread explicitly mentioned the nature of higher dimensions, it wasn't even exclusive to Taikyoku and non-Taikyoku difference. In fact, there were also higher dimensions in ParaLost, in which the universe, which would eventually be made Multiverse by the paradox that created Mercurius, was depicted as lower and the Throne the absolute peak that defines everything below.

Essentially, I don't see the reason why you're making a distinction between Yakou's barrier and the higher dimensions in Shinzaverse - Masada doesn't really do that. They share the same properties.

@YuriAkuto

I believe that, on numerous occasions, you kept bringing up things that are either horribly misinterpreted or taken out of context and were corrected by ALRF (now SleepyTBubble) and other knowledgeable members. Much to my surprise, this seems to be another one of them.

First of all, claiming that Naraka are superior to the gods is straight up fanfic. We know next to nothing about the context behind what has happened, and why Naraka can apparently subjugate the gods. I'm fairly certain that Masada has already stated that it has nothing to do with their individual strength, however.

Secondly, much of the information about Naraka that was introduced in K3 are prone to being changed or retconned, especially when they are a group and not a single person that we initially believed. For all we know, the device that has control over all of creation could have merely been a simple lesser manifestation or "outer layer" of the actual thing.

Destroying the Throne isn't actually that easy, Merc was kinda dying when the Throne was destroyed.

I don't get your point. He wasn't dying trying to destroy the Throne, he was dying because he fought a freaking Hadou God with strength equal to his - the Throne being destroyed was simply an aftermath of their fight.

Heck, even Soujirou who will pretty much get omega-stomped by Hadou Gods less powerful than Mercurius was stated to be able to destroy the Throne with an attack.

Taikyoku has long existed before the Throne, the Throne, however, can't exist without Taikyoku. It's a "tool" to those who possess Taikyoku and are capable of manipulating existence with it.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

>I did yes, although I'm not necessary an expert.

>Previously on another thread called Trifa in K3 having Taikyoku

>Also said Eastern Team in their confrontationt against Tenmas had their Gudou taikyoku value on to disapprove the Taiji value scaling when they weren't as they were Kikei Mandala'd (might not become irrelevant anymore later on cuz Masada might change it but for now, it's still legitimate).

Man, there are so many other ***** you're saying weird on many threads i honestly doubt your claims

For these ones you're mentionned

>Destroying the Throne isn't actually that easy, Merc was kinda dying when the Throne was destroyed. Also it seems that it didn't really stopped its power to be, so it would be more a case of "AP greater than durability", since the Throne is more a "system" to begin with. Not to mention there's litteraly Naraka in it.

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Yeah, totally difficult to destroy Throne :kobeha

>Naraka are beings above Hadou/Gudou Gods

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Totally right?

 

[Ravenous4th]

Ant: Do not make serious CRT
Community: Then let's make a Q&A board that literally brings into question the tiering for literally the entirety of 1 of the most popular verses on the site.

Foolproof strategy.

Exactly.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

@Fire

Actual kek strategy

 

[QuasiYuri]

It's basically things that I said in one thread, Idk how it equal "many threads". Pretty sure I also said that I was wrong about both.

>How is this supposed to prove that it is something easy? It's not like it was a random thing to do in the scene. Also it can work with the later half of what I said.

>I said that they're above Gods we know based on this: µ│óµù¼Òü╗Òü®Òü«ÞÂàµÀ▒ÕÑÑÒü½µ¢£ÒéëÒü¬ÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÒâèÒâ®Òé½Òü«µ£¼Þ│¬Òü½Òü»µÄáÒéïÒüôÒü¿ÒüòÒüêÕç║µØÑÒü¬ÒüäÒü¿ÒüäÒüå. Your scan is more about how incomprehensible they are and the confirmation that they aren't Gods.

 

[Birgi_Emir_Özyavru]

When Soujirou tried to cut Akuro he didn't manage to do so, and then narration explained how he wasn't simply tanky, but he was disconnected, then went on ahead with Reality-Picture Analogy, explaining the difference beetween the dimensions and concluding it by saying Attacks from higher dimension can destroy lower reality easier than twisting a babys hand (Roughly, those are all shared scans in CRT). Narration is talking about difference beetween higher-lower dimensions through the scans, explaining how they work, why would Madara's 24-Dimensional Barrier would be any different when narration clearly explained how dimensions work?

 

[SleepyTBubble]

At any case, mentioning Narakas has no hold on God's general power level. So i dunno why we are discussing them as we still have no clue on them

 

[QuasiYuri]

Mentionned it because of the Throne being considered as weak compared to Gods on this wiki despite the whole series being about dudes wanting the Throne, dudes wanting to keep their place, and dudes wanting nothing better than the Throne.

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Dunno how that is any better of a reasoning

 

[Birgi_Emir_Özyavru]

Throne keeps pressure of Gods in check. The series is about gods creating their ideal worlds based on their cravings, if they don't take throne then they will crush creation from their pressure which would be...pointless

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The Heaven that dyed in the color of Hajun, it cannot endure the weight of God. The thing that needed to exist so that those of transcendence can sit on it, the『Throne』.

Straight from Masadaverse Explanation Page Revisions 2

They can indeed destroy the throne, Soujiro was stated to be able to and Merc and Reinhards battle did as a side effect

 

[Antvasima]

Would this lead to a major revision? If so, we should probably close it, and wait until the new forum is publicly open.

 

[Mercurius577]

I don't belive so, i think all there is to this is to post scans thst suggest these things and prove it here and immidiatelly, otherwise a new forum can be opened however i doubt there will be a need.

 

[QuasiYuri]

It's just a matter of scans, so worst case scenario would be to make AP description more precise/including the scans in question or something like this.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then.