SHINZA IS BACK!!!!!

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Wait, are you the guy from csap's discord? Cuz there is a guy with the same pfp that you have

Yes.

 

[Reizen23]

Yes.

I'm Yakou/Simeon

 

[Infera28]

No? The instance you refer to is Akuro VS Soujirou, The Narrator says that the difference between Akuro's mugen kannazuki(the armor protecting him) and Soujirou is that of R>F(and it is proved later on to be more than that against Numahime and so on)

Where was it mentioned that analog was referring to time armor and not Akuro's existence or durability? time armor also came from Tenma Yato, a character with Taikyoku. Can you show scans for Ryuusui, Rindou and Varhram. Anyway, R>F was never used for Paradise Lost's dimensions, so it's pointless to argue

 

[Infera28]

Anyway, I said what I had to say, there is nothing left to say. I'll wait to see what DontTalkDT has to say. My final opinion is that best, most supported and most consistent tier for Shinza is Low 1-C. I will like Shinza to return to the wiki, but with it's true tier

 

[Reizen23]

Where was it mentioned that analog was referring to time armor and not Akuro's existence or durability?

literally in the scan that came before the whole analogy was made.....
「効かんよ。穢土(われら)の太極(ことわり)を舐めるな」 "It doesn't work. Don't underestimate the taikyoku of Edo."

time armor also came from Tenma Yato, a character with Taikyoku.

the problem is that the gap is shown to be above higher dimensional more than once,I have read k3 and ik what I am talking about

Can you show scans for Ryuusui, Rindou and Varhram. Anyway, R>F was never used for Paradise Lost's dimensions, so it's pointless to argue

it was used in the verse more than once and in different novels,this means that Masada wanted it to be portrayed consistently troughout his series
for example,here a scan of Mercurius' shade being an illustration compared to its "other dimensional version" also it is not saying that he is a being from another dimension,just that he is projected down in Glads like higher d dudes do

For Ryuusui
『この子の歴史は常にそう…....だから、周囲の総が付属物。御門龍水の物語における登場人物に過ぎない』'This child's history has always been so: ....... So the totality of the surroundings are appendages. They are just characters in the story of Mikado Ryuusui.'

『自分が思い描いた物語上に登場する、欠点のないステキな主役。 それはまるで、平面に描かれた人物画や、頭の中に潜む妄想へ懸想しているのと一緒じゃない』『架空の人物に熱を上げるあまり、現実から目を背けているひきこもりみたい』'A flawless, wonderful leading man in a story that I have imagined. It's just like looking at a picture of a character on a flat surface, or fantasising about the fantasies lurking in your head' 'You're like a shut-in who's so passionate about a fictional character that he's turned his back on reality.'

For Rindou:
そうだ、彼らの在り方は浮遊している。 まるで虚構の世界の住人であるかのごとく、行動に立体感を与える要素が欠けているのだ。 Yes, their way of being is floating. As if he were a resident of a fictional world, they lack the element that gives their actions a three-dimensional effect.

For Varhram
知らず荒げた語気の強さに、誰よりもワルフラーンが驚いた。俺は何をムキになってるんだと困惑しつつも、続く叫びを止められない。 「安っぽい言い方をするなッ」 「じゃあ努力したのか？　あんたが訓練しているところなんか、見た覚えがないぞ」 「……ッ」 連続するマグサリオンの剣は凄絶の一語。宇宙を滅尽した正真正銘の叩き上げで、彼が冥府魔道のなか培ってきた無二の力だ。それをすべて捌き、のみならず見事な反撃も成功させるワルフラーンの達人ぶりは、もはや筆舌に尽くし難い。非現実的な技の冴えで、ある種不公平ですらあった。が、果たして彼は、そんな才を望んだのか？ (、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、) 「あんたはできる。できすぎて、逆に恥ずかしくなったんだ。負かした相手から奪い続けてきたのは、人並みになりたかったからだろう」 血みどろになっても怯まず攻めるマグサリオンの猛撃が、再びワルフラーンに傷を与えた。今度は頬で、やはり皮一枚にすぎなかったが、異形の勇者は業火に触れたかのごとく過剰に反応して距離を取る。 「寂しがってると言ったのは、そういう意味だ」 逃さじと追いかけるマグサリオン。彼の指摘がワルフラーンという男の真実だった。規格の違う才能と、“零”に通じる異端の視点を持って生まれた。なるほどアフラマズダが評した通り、生きている階層がそもそも違う。ワルフラーンにとっては、世界が物語と変わらぬものに見えたはずだ。まるで本でも読んでいるような気分。目の前にある笑顔も、涙も、活字や挿絵と変わらない。それは紛れもなく一方的に優越した、超越者の立場だろう。しかし考えてみるがいい、断絶した関係なのはお互い様だ。読者が物語の登場人物にどうしたって芯から寄り添えないのと同じく、“みんな”もワルフラーンには寄り添えない。そこには狂おしい孤独がある。たとえどれだけ“みんな”を愛し、彼らと共に生きたいと願ったところで叶わない。同じ温度の夢を見ることが不可能で、突き詰めれば分からないし分かってもらえない。 The strength of the unknowingly raspy words surprised Walfran more than anyone else. I was puzzled as to what he was getting so worked up about, but I couldn't stop him from continuing to shout. "Don't talk cheap." "So you tried?　I don't remember seeing you training." ".......I" Magsarion's sword in succession is one of the most amazing. He is a true master of the universe, a unique power he has cultivated in the underworld of magic. Varhram's mastery in handling all of them and successfully counterattacking is beyond description. It was an unreal feat of skill, even unfair in a way. But did he really want such talent? (、、、、、、、、、、、、、、、) "You can do it. You're so good, you're so good that it's embarrassing to be the other way round. You've been robbing the people you beat because you wanted to be as good as them." Magsarion's onslaught, which attacked without fear even in blood, wounded Varhram again. This time it was in the cheek, still only a skin wound, but the deformed hero overreacted and moved away as if he had been touched by karmic fire. "When I said I missed you, that's what I meant." Magsarion chased after him, determined not to let him escape. He pointed out the truth about the man Varhram. He was born with a talent of a different standard and an unorthodox viewpoint that is in tune with "Zero". As Ahura mazda described him, he was born at a different level of life. For Varhram, the world must have seemed no different from the stories he had read. It was as if he was reading a book. The smiles and tears in front of me are no different from those in print or illustrations. It would undeniably be a one-sided, superior, transcendent position. But think about it, the disconnected relationship is mutual. Just as the reader cannot relate to the characters in the story in any way, neither can "everyone" relate to Varhram. There is a mad loneliness. No matter how much you love "everyone" and wish to live with them, it will never happen. It is impossible to dream of the same temperature, and when you get right down to it, it is impossible to understand or be understood.
「誰も彼を理解できなかったように、 彼も我々のことを分かっていません。 あのアイオーンとやらがいい証拠です。 ワルフラーンにとっての“みんな”とは――」 コンテンツ 「さしずめ、物語の登場人物といったところだな。 彼は世界を、一種の娯楽情報的に捉えていた。 目の前にある笑顔も、涙も、ワルフラーンから見れば活字や挿絵と変わらない。 そこに喜怒哀楽が動かされても、実際的な判断には何ら影響せんということだ。 生きている階層がそもそも違う」 "He doesn't understand us, just as no one could understand him. Ione is a good example. To vahram, 'everyone' means..." Content He was a character in a story, after all. He sees the world as a kind of entertainment information. The smiles and tears in front of him were no different from print or illustrations from Vahram's point of view. Even if you are moved by them, they have no influence on your practical decisions. The hierarchy in which we live is different to begin with."

 

[Reizen23]

Anyway, I said what I had to say, there is nothing left to say. I'll wait to see what DontTalkDT has to say. My final opinion is that best, most supported and most consistent tier for Shinza is Low 1-C. I will like Shinza to return to the wiki, but with it's true tier

I have yet to see Low 1-C arguments ngl

 

[ImmortalDread]

Wait, are you the guy from csap's discord? Cuz there is a guy with the same pfp that you have

Yes.

This makes sense why you were focused on deleting one of the verses I support. F

 

[Reizen23]

btw nice to see that at least,no one is looking at Yuri's downgrade anymore kek

 

[Infera28]

「効かんよ。穢土(われら)の太極(ことわり)を舐めるな」 "It doesn't work. Don't underestimate the taikyoku of Edo."

Yato's Taikyoku is mentioned here, thanks for proving my point

Mercurius' shade being an illustration compared to its "other dimensional version" also it is not saying that he is a being from another dimension,just that he is projected down in Glads like higher d dudes do

Because sensory / shade was only a 3D reflection of Mercurius, who is a Throne Master and Taikyoku user, so of course he would be called a being from another dimension, he was a weird reflection of a hyperdimensional being. This statement is also related to Taikyoku

'A flawless, wonderful leading man in a story that I have imagined. It's just like looking at a picture of a character on a flat surface, or fantasising about the fantasies lurking in your head' 'You're like a shut-in who's so passionate about a fictional character that he's turned his back on reality.'

It is because Madara was one of the 2D characters in Ryuusui's story who became a living, 3D being. This has nothing to do with scaling or the R>F analog used for tiering. It's like if I write a story and suddenly one of the 2D characters in it becomes 3D. I don't know what this has to do with R>F analog that I talked about or we used for scaling. Also Ryuusui was a Taikyoku user too

Yes, their way of being is floating. As if he were a resident of a fictional world, they lack the element that gives their actions a three-dimensional effect.

What is the context behind this? Who is saying it?

He pointed out the truth about the man Varhram. He was born with a talent of a different standard and an unorthodox viewpoint that is in tune with "Zero". As Ahura mazda described him, he was born at a different level of life. For Varhram, the world must have seemed no different from the stories he had read. It was as if he was reading a book. The smiles and tears in front of me are no different from those in print or illustrations. It would undeniably be a one-sided, superior, transcendent position. But think about it, the disconnected relationship is mutual. Just as the reader cannot relate to the characters in the story in any way, neither can "everyone" relate to Varhram. There is a mad loneliness. No matter how much you love "everyone" and wish to live with them, it will never happen. It is impossible to dream of the same temperature, and when you get right down to it, it is impossible to understand or be understood.

"He doesn't understand us, just as no one could understand him. Ione is a good example. To vahram, 'everyone' means..." Content He was a character in a story, after all. He sees the world as a kind of entertainment information. The smiles and tears in front of him were no different from print or illustrations from Vahram's point of view. Even if you are moved by them, they have no influence on your practical decisions. The hierarchy in which we live is different to begin with."

This seems to refer to the fact that the whole world of Ahura Mazda is a creation / story of Mitra and Vahram is aware of it, so he sees everything as a story / Destiny and predetermined events. In the text you sent, it is mentioned that Vahram is in tune with Zero or Mithra, the creator of the world, who is a Taikyoku user. or it means that there is a connection between Vahram and Taikyoku because in The text you sent said that Vahram is fighting Magsarion, a Taikyoku user. The third possibility is that everything is a metaphor about Varham's power, however, the context behind the text you sent is not clear. What is Varham's transcendental position?

I have yet to see Low 1-C arguments ngl

Because everything in the series points to it. There is an Infinite Multiverse and Throne transcends it. Throne is constantly referred to as a hyperdimension, separate from time and simultaneously existing in all past, present and future. Shinza's cosmology is constantly changing, but Throne remains constant, meaning that events in cosmology do not affect Throne, and Throne is higher dimensional. Also, R>F Analog was consistently used for Taikyoku and Throne. It is also clear that Taikyoku and Throne transcend concepts, laws and dualities, which is a good support for Low 1-C Throne. Really the best and most consistent tier for Shinza is Low 1-C

 

[Infera28]

Also, the Throne is beyond the Singularity, which is a void in creation. I think this also supports Low 1-C Throne

 

[Reizen23]

Yato's Taikyoku is mentioned here, thanks for proving my point

you are ignoring what I said,the point is that later it is proved to be more than just higher d difference

Because sensory / shade was only a 3D reflection of Mercurius, who is a Throne Master and Taikyoku user, so of course he would be called a being from another dimension, he was a weird reflection of a hyperdimensional being. This statement is also related to Taikyoku

first of all:you asked about R>F differences,also different verses uses "higher dimensional to say the difference despite being in outerversal and higher realms,look at the white hot room in marvel

It is because Madara was one of the 2D characters in Ryuusui's story who became a living, 3D being. This has nothing to do with scaling or the R>F analog used for tiering

it literally says that Yakou is a fictional character to Ryuusui,reread the scans rather than taking in consideration only what you want

. It's like if I write a story and suddenly one of the 2D characters in it becomes 3D. I don't know what this has to do with R>F analog that I talked about or we used for scaling. Also Ryuusui was a Taikyoku user too

she didn't use her taik at this point so stop trying to rat

What is the context behind this? Who is saying it?

the narrator

This seems to refer to the fact that the whole world of Ahura Mazda is a creation / story of Mitra and Vahram is aware of it, so he sees everything as a story / Destiny and predetermined events. In the text you sent, it is mentioned that Vahram is in tune with Zero or Mithra, the creator of the world, who is a Taikyoku user.

Mithra is not zero,tf you on? Also it directly mentions him viewing them as illustrations and he is disconnected which is used to refer to the fact that he views them as fiction as disconnection is used for R>F,read the scans before you talk

or it means that there is a connection between Vahram and Taikyoku because in The text you sent said that Vahram is fighting Magsarion, a Taikyoku user.

MAGSARION A TAIKYOKU USER? did you read avesta? Magsarion had meifu madou which is why he could not kill Mithra,he obtained taikyoku/big bang/atziluth later on during the fight with Mithra,at this point he had just Meifu Madou

The third possibility is that everything is a metaphor about Varham's power, however, the context behind the text you sent is not clear. What is Varham's transcendental position?

The context is that Varhram is connected to Zero and thus he views everyone as fiction minus Mithra and Magsarion,I have read the 16th chapter of avesta unlike you who claim that Mithra is zero or that mags have taik

Because everything in the series points to it. There is an Infinite Multiverse and Throne transcends it.

show the scans if you have them,since you talk but never read the series from what I see

Throne is constantly referred to as a hyperdimension

this is false,Cho Jigen(超次元) can mean hyperdimensional,superdimensional and something that transcend dimensions,why it should refer to hyperdimensional?Kek

separate from time and simultaneously existing in all past, present and future.

show it,also the singularity is explicitly outside concepts such as past,present,future and time and so is the throne

Shinza's cosmology is constantly changing

and yk why? Show the scans for this if you have them

but Throne remains constant, meaning that events in cosmology do not affect Throne

WHAT? lmaooooo,had you read history of pantheon and Paralost,you would have known that there were at least 3 thrones before merc came:1 where Nerose is the throne God,one where Muzan is still the 2nd heaven and one where Mortaria took it,I can keep going,there are also different thrones troughout eras thx to the depth changing,it is even directly stated that Hajun's singularity is above Marie's throne

and Throne is higher dimensional.

show it

Also, R>F Analog was consistently used for Taikyoku and Throne.

R>F can refer to stuffs higher than dimensions,for example,if a guy is high outer,can't another dude have an outer transcendence above him?

It is also clear that Taikyoku and Throne transcend concepts, laws and dualities, which is a good support for Low 1-C Throne.

dualities as I showed includes high hyper stuffs

Really the best and most consistent tier for Shinza is Low 1-C

all of this is based off misconceptions

 

[Reizen23]

Also, the Throne is beyond the Singularity, which is a void in creation. I think this also supports Low 1-C Throne

IN CREATION? dude,you have no idea what the singularity is,also it is a realm that have several layers as I showed,you didn't address anything of the message I sent yesterday and just kept misunderstanding shinza lol

 

[Reizen23]

Also I would like to know where you got that Magsarion had taikyoku,it is clear enough that he have not that and he only got it as soon as he became hadou,unleashing his paradise lost law becoming Muzan thanks to his 4th commandment,before that he had no divine stuffs,that's why he could not kill Mithra

 

[PrinceofPein]

In the previous posts of this thread, it was said that the only thing that prevented a person from entering those dimensions was sin, and that is why Satanel made the angels innocent, so they could enter those dimensions. I think even Pein agreed.

Dude can you stop lying against me, or actually read what I say?

Pain, how did you manage to get 6 pages of discussion.

Suffering from success

I already sent him Japanese script of PL, rn i'm too lazy to open my hard drive. He should be the one to check it though.
But afaic, he doesn't know Japanese or know how to search the correct keyword. I can imagine how this thread gonna end up when the OP clearly have no clue about what the frick he is doing.

dude what you sent was absolute garbage to say the least, and yes I have read PL previously, been a while but I can still remember so please stop throwing the accusations around. I will like for you to point out what I said about PL that is wrong.

I'm not really pessimistic, I just find Shinza's future terrifying. I don't even want Shinza to stay removed, just because in my opinion 13D Shinza is also flawed and will cause problems in the future, so Low 1-C Shinza is better.

Anyway, in this video, it seems that the characters can neutralize the energy of angels, which is supposed to belong to higher spatial dimensions, with Sin, which is the energy of Hell (Hell is below physical universe), and also so called lower dimensional beings are fighting that so called higher dimensional angel, without instantly dying too.

Yes when you used Higher D power to fight, you can face Higher D maybe if you actually played the game, you would know that

It is also said here that the world system in Paradise Lost is the Sepirot religious system (which is taken from Kabbalah), which shows that the dimensions are probably spiritual and not spatial.

Read the damn blog, I already said that like so many many times, if you actually took time to read the blog or my messages.

Anyway, I said what I had to say, there is nothing left to say. I'll wait to see what DontTalkDT has to say. My final opinion is that best, most supported and most consistent tier for Shinza is Low 1-C. I will like Shinza to return to the wiki, but with it's true tier

the true tier you cannot support?
if you want to argue against my argument at least do it and do it right by making argument instead of saying things you have absolutely no idea about, or you think only spatial dimensions can get you a 1-B creation? or you think only infinite hierarchy can get you 1-A.
Not only do you not understand the verse itself as you have only played DI and ikabey, you also missed reading the tiering system.

These is my problem with previous Shinza fans on this wiki, you guys like to act like elitist but you know jack shit about what you are talking about.
Talking about how I am wrong but somehow for **** all, none of you since page 1 has been able to point out something that I said that is wrong.
Henceforth, I think if anyone of you derail again, I will start requesting you guys get banned from this thread.
I am okay with you guys disagreeing, I do not mind, but bring arguments and stop saying ***** like "Op has not read this and that" "OP said something wrong" And when you geniuses are asked to bring out that wrong thing, you are no where to be found

Sorry for the rant, my tolerance for BS is spent

 

[ImmortalDread]

What are now discussing currently? Can the verse come back or not?

 

[Reizen23]

What are now discussing currently? Can the verse come back or not?

the real question is why goku isn't soloing

 

[PrinceofPein]

What are now discussing currently? Can the verse come back or not?

The verse can come back but the ones who left the verse as it is cause they try to discuss something they have absolutely no idea about are back too. So here I am fumming

 

[ImmortalDread]

So, it is a derailment right now? Should I call thread moderators?

 

[Shmooply]

Should I call thread moderators?

Go for it. This thread has basically gone nowhere even after Ultima and DT gave their input, and from the looks of things it just derailed into shitposts, different supporters' interpetations of the verse's cosmology, and random off-topic stuff.

 

[PrinceofPein]

So, it is a derailment right now? Should I call thread moderators?

that will be helpful honestly

 

[ImmortalDread]

Alright, I will call two thread moderators, then.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Go for it. This thread has basically gone nowhere even after Ultima and DT gave their input, and from the looks of things it just derailed into shitposts, different supporters' interpetations of the verse's cosmology, and random off-topic stuff.

supporters' interpretation of the cosmology and misguided fans saying things they do not know

 

[ImmortalDread]

supporters' interpretation of the cosmology and misguided fans saying things they do not know

Nobody is interested, please refrain from digressing from the thread's main topic. It's puzzling to see six pages dedicated solely to the request to bring the verse back, especially since the thread is not intended for character discussions or tiering.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Nobody is interested, please refrain from digressing from the thread's main topic. It's puzzling to see six pages dedicated solely to the request to bring the verse back, especially since the thread is not intended for character discussions or tiering.

the matter of bringing the verse back is done, most agree with it, the new thing is the tier they come back with.
And it is not digressing from the main topic, since the reason why the verse was deleted in the first place was due to this misguided fans, so yes for all sake, I'd call them out on their BS this time around

 

[ImmortalDread]

@PrinceofPein

While I am not completely blind to the thread's premise, its accomplishment can be summarized as follows:

That said this is just a thread to undo the ban of the verse on the wiki, the actual threads for the pages and all comes later part by part, but for now let us get this

You have not been updating the vote tally for the past 6 pages, despite it being your responsibility to do so on a regular basis. As a result, the thread has become a negative and toxic environment due to the constant calls to call out “supporters” on their BS.

There are currently two options available before this thread is moved to RvR and closed.

1. The first option is for you to update the vote tally and focus on the thread's original purpose, which was to discuss the return of a particular verse and create a new CRT for tiering, character, and cosmology discussion. Additionally, you can present your blogs as you had previously stated that you had been working on them for months.
2. Alternatively, if you continue to focus solely on calling out supporters and contributing to a negative atmosphere, the thread will be reported and used as evidence against you.

 

[Infera28]

first of all:you asked about R>F differences,also different verses uses "higher dimensional to say the difference despite being in outerversal and higher realms,look at the white hot room in marvel

You did not prove that Shinza is outerversal. Transcending concepts of space-time is not in 1-A in vsbattles. You also have to prove that infinite dimensions exist in verse, or no matter how many new spatial dimensions you add to the verse, the characters are still fully or conceptually beyond them. So far, no one has proven it, it has not even been proven that the 13 dimensions in Paradise Lost are actually spatial dimensions. You can think you proved it, but it doesn't matter because none of the mods accepted it. So this has not been proven. vsbattles is very strict for 1-A tiering and you need much more evidence

it literally says that Yakou is a fictional character to Ryuusui,reread the scans rather than taking in consideration only what you want

The context was that Yakou was a 2D character in Ryuusui's stories that later became 3D. I went and read its context. This was something that Yakou didn't know and he found out later

the narrator

Send the script before the scan, because it is very vague

Mithra is not zero,tf you on? Also it directly mentions him viewing them as illustrations and he is disconnected which is used to refer to the fact that he views them as fiction as disconnection is used for R>F,read the scans before you talk

Zero is also used to refer to Throne and Naraka rangers, of which Mitra was one of them. Zero is also used for Original Naraka, which is beyond Takyoku users. You didn't say what Zero meant there, so I took the most reasonable guess. The creation was an emanation of Mitra, so it was logical to think that Varham, as a creation of Mitra, was connected to her

MAGSARION A TAIKYOKU USER? did you read avesta? Magsarion had meifu madou which is why he could not kill Mithra,he obtained taikyoku/big bang/atziluth later on during the fight with Mithra,at this point he had just Meifu Madou

I read summaries of it by people who knew Japanese, he was a Taikyoku user, but he was not Hadou or Gadou, but something new called Madou. In his fight with Khvarenah, it was also mentioned that he and Khvarenah had reached the level of Taikyoku / Big Bang, and Taikyoku's painting was mentioned. In this same thread, it was mentioned that the reason for Khvarenah's failure was that Magsarion had already reached the Big Bang level and was absorbing cravings, in end of fight he absorbed Khvarenah into his Taikyoku's Madou nature too. It was also said in the fight that Magsarion didn't look at Khvarenah's constructs, because he could get painted by them. His constructs also painted Ferederica's maids. Painting is an aspect of Taikyoku

The context is that Varhram is connected to Zero and thus he views everyone as fiction minus Mithra and Magsarion,I have read the 16th chapter of avesta unlike you who claim that Mithra is zero or that mags have taik

Zero or original Naraka, surpasses even Taikyoku users. You said yourself that you don't know Japanese, so the credibility of what you say is low. I haven't read the Avesta light novel, but I've read Avesta summaries by people who know Japanese, and they all say that Magsarion reached the Big Bang while fighting Khvarenah (which was probably an incomplete Big Bang, but still a Big Bang regardless)

this is false,Cho Jigen(超次元) can mean hyperdimensional,superdimensional and something that transcend dimensions,why it should refer to hyperdimensional?Kek

Nobody ever proved that it transcends dimensions, so hyperdimension is very likely correct one

and yk why? Show the scans for this if you have them

Mitra's cosmology was based on Zoroastrian mythology. Muzan's cosmology was based on the Sepirot and the Divine Comedy. Hajun's cosmology was some buddhism / samurai shit and Amaterasu's cosmology was a combination of all. If you disagree, prove that 13 dimensions in Muzan's cosmology also exist in Mercurius's cosmology or Hajun's cosmology

WHAT? lmaooooo,had you read history of pantheon and Paralost,you would have known that there were at least 3 thrones before merc came:1 where Nerose is the throne God,one where Muzan is still the 2nd heaven and one where Mortaria took it,I can keep going,there are also different thrones troughout eras thx to the depth changing,it is even directly stated that Hajun's singularity is above Marie's throne

They were one Throne that was taken over and changed by different people. If there were multiple Thrones then Naraka rangers or original Naraka were not in the Throne anymore. Hajun's singularity was more powerful than Marie's Throne, because he changed and amplified Throne and singularity, beyond Throne in Marie time

show the scans if you have them,since you talk but never read the series from what I see

Infinite Multiverse. Throne transcending everything

 

[Infera28]

Dude can you stop lying against me, or actually read what I say?

I quoted your message

Yes when you used Higher D power to fight, you can face Higher D maybe if you actually played the game, you would know that

Hell was located below the physical universe, and yet it could affect dimensions higher than the universe, which shows that none of those dimensions were spatial. Because the dimensions that went down could also affect the dimensions that went up (Two different directions). Also, the fact that innocence allowed a person to enter those dimensions and sin could neutralize their energies shows that they are not spatially infinitely higher dimensions, but spiritual dimensions. Prove that those dimensions were spatial and each dimension was infinitely higher than the other, because the fact that something is called a higher dimension and its beings are stronger than the beings of a lower dimension does not mean that higher dimension in question is spatial and infinitely higher. You can be one spiritual dimension higher than others and destroy the inhabitants of lower spiritual dimensions with a glance because you are far stronger. You also never played Paradise Lost either

Read the damn blog, I already said that like so many many times, if you actually took time to read the blog or my messages.

I read it, can you stop slandering anyone who disagrees with you? All those who disagree with you read your blog

the true tier you cannot support?
if you want to argue against my argument at least do it and do it right by making argument instead of saying things you have absolutely no idea about, or you think only spatial dimensions can get you a 1-B creation? or you think only infinite hierarchy can get you 1-A.
Not only do you not understand the verse itself as you have only played DI and ikabey, you also missed reading the tiering system.

These is my problem with previous Shinza fans on this wiki, you guys like to act like elitist but you know jack shit about what you are talking about.
Talking about how I am wrong but somehow for **** all, none of you since page 1 has been able to point out something that I said that is wrong.
Henceforth, I think if anyone of you derail again, I will start requesting you guys get banned from this thread.
I am okay with you guys disagreeing, I do not mind, but bring arguments and stop saying ***** like "Op has not read this and that" "OP said something wrong" And when you geniuses are asked to bring out that wrong thing, you are no where to be found

Sorry for the rant, my tolerance for BS is spent

Stop crying. In fact, I request the to close this thread because you keep lying, changing your words, insulting others and claiming that they don't know anything about Shinza, saying that they didn't read your blog. Your blog is clearly rushed, messy and bad, none of your claims are new and all of them were debunked in Yuri's threads, you are not even a knowlegeable member, you don't know Japanese, and you are using second-hand information. Also, you keep using the fallacies, I never said that infinite dimensions are necessary. From what I already knew of you, you were the worst person for restoring Shinza

 

[Infera28]

The verse can come back but the ones who left the verse as it is cause they try to discuss something they have absolutely no idea about are back too. So here I am fumming

I request the mods to address your behavior, you keep insulting others and claiming that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't know anything about Shinza or the tiering system or hasn't read your rushed, messy and incomplete blog

 

[Reizen23]

You did not prove that Shinza is outerversal.

you didn't address my arguments

Transcending concepts of space-time is not in 1-A in vsbattles. You also have to prove that infinite dimensions exist in verse, or no matter how many new spatial dimensions you add to the verse, the characters are still fully or conceptually beyond them.

I did

https://vsbattles.com/threads/shinza-is-back.149258/post-5509311

So far, no one has proven it, it has not even been proven that the 13 dimensions in Paradise Lost are actually spatial dimensions. You can think you proved it, but it doesn't matter because none of the mods accepted it. So this has not been proven. vsbattles is very strict for 1-A tiering and you need much more evidence

beside the fact that I answered after the mods went off kek,you didn't address any of the 1A arg I sent

The context was that Yakou was a 2D character in Ryuusui's stories that later became 3D. I went and read its context. This was something that Yakou didn't know and he found out later

show this

Send the script before the scan, because it is very vague

I mean,the script is literally this,Rindou was looking at how selfish those in the tournament were

Zero is also used to refer to Throne and Naraka rangers, of which Mitra was one of them.

No? Prove it first of all,2nd:in the same chapter,Mithra called zero something different from her,like,read avesta dude,That's why the observers are not of any God's domain

Zero is also used for Original Naraka, which is beyond Takyoku users.

I can debate on Hajun>Naraka using only what Masada said in a few interviews

You didn't say what Zero meant there, so I took the most reasonable guess.

Mithra is never referred to as zero,heck,zero is explicitly beyond her

The creation was an emanation of Mitra, so it was logical to think that Varham, as a creation of Mitra, was connected to her

Varhram comes from Zero aka from before Mithra was a throne goddess

I read summaries of it by people who knew Japanese, he was a Taikyoku user, but he was not Hadou or Gadou, but something new called Madou.

and he had not taikyoku,I know what you talk about but it was not taikyoku,this is why Shinga was unkilled till he unleashed his taikyoku(paradise lost)

In his fight with Khvarenah, it was also mentioned that he and Khvarenah had reached the level of Taikyoku / Big Bang, and Taikyoku's painting was mentioned.

first of all:it was incomplete,Khvarenah's Big bang had been compromised by the divine sword before he came to life and that's also why he didn't beat Mithra lol

In this same thread, it was mentioned that the reason for Khvarenah's failure was that Magsarion had already reached the Big Bang level and was absorbing cravings, in end of fight he absorbed Khvarenah into his Taikyoku's Madou nature too.

Ok so you ignored directly what happened,Khvarenah was incomplete,I can take the chapter rn and show you that even his taik name was incomplete because of this

It was also said in the fight that Magsarion didn't look at Khvarenah's constructs, because he could get painted by them. His constructs also painted Ferederica's maids. Painting is an aspect of Taikyoku

show it and also 2nd of all:incomplete taikyoku so irrelevant

Zero or original Naraka, surpasses even Taikyoku users.

No? The statement refers to Hadou Gods and even then,Nerose made his era unaffected by Naraka

You said yourself that you don't know Japanese, so the credibility of what you say is low.

first of all:I read avesta and whenever there are mistranslations,there is directly a friend who knows jap and went there several times and corrects me so honestly this way of discrediting me is baseless

I haven't read the Avesta light novel, but I've read Avesta summaries by people who know Japanese, and they all say that Magsarion reached the Big Bang while fighting Khvarenah (which was probably an incomplete Big Bang, but still a Big Bang regardless)

Khvarenah's big bang was incomplete,reading the summaries is not reading the chapters themselves unlike me who have avesta physically here,2nd:those who supposedly know jap should be?

Nobody ever proved that it transcends dimensions, so hyperdimension is very likely correct one

I did,also no,you are just assuming

Mitra's cosmology was based on Zoroastrian mythology. Muzan's cosmology was based on the Sepirot and the Divine Comedy. Hajun's cosmology was some buddhism / samurai shit and Amaterasu's cosmology was a combination of all. If you disagree, prove that 13 dimensions in Muzan's cosmology also exist in Mercurius's cosmology or Hajun's cosmology

I alr proved that there are infinite dimensions in Mithra's universe,Muzan's is even bigger and let alone Hajun's

They were one Throne that was taken over and changed by different people.

no? Nerose directly said that his throne is parallel to Muzan's,even if you read the final battle of Paralost you would know that kek

If there were multiple Thrones then Naraka rangers or original Naraka were not in the Throne anymore.

this is false lol

Hajun's singularity was more powerful than Marie's Throne, because he changed and amplified Throne and singularity, beyond Throne in Marie time

so you are just agreeing with me lol

Infinite Multiverse. Throne transcending everything

ok so you have some scans but not for everything as I have yet to see singularity being into creation

 

[PrinceofPein]

You did not prove that Shinza is outerversal. Transcending concepts of space-time is not in 1-A in vsbattles. You also have to prove that infinite dimensions exist in verse, or no matter how many new spatial dimensions you add to the verse, the characters are still fully or conceptually beyond them. So far, no one has proven it, it has not even been proven that the 13 dimensions in Paradise Lost are actually spatial dimensions. You can think you proved it, but it doesn't matter because none of the mods accepted it. So this has not been proven. vsbattles is very strict for 1-A tiering and you need much more evidence


The context was that Yakou was a 2D character in Ryuusui's stories that later became 3D. I went and read its context. This was something that Yakou didn't know and he found out later


Send the script before the scan, because it is very vague


Zero is also used to refer to Throne and Naraka rangers, of which Mitra was one of them. Zero is also used for Original Naraka, which is beyond Takyoku users. You didn't say what Zero meant there, so I took the most reasonable guess. The creation was an emanation of Mitra, so it was logical to think that Varham, as a creation of Mitra, was connected to her


I read summaries of it by people who knew Japanese, he was a Taikyoku user, but he was not Hadou or Gadou, but something new called Madou. In his fight with Khvarenah, it was also mentioned that he and Khvarenah had reached the level of Taikyoku / Big Bang, and Taikyoku's painting was mentioned. In this same thread, it was mentioned that the reason for Khvarenah's failure was that Magsarion had already reached the Big Bang level and was absorbing cravings, in end of fight he absorbed Khvarenah into his Taikyoku's Madou nature too. It was also said in the fight that Magsarion didn't look at Khvarenah's constructs, because he could get painted by them. His constructs also painted Ferederica's maids. Painting is an aspect of Taikyoku


Zero or original Naraka, surpasses even Taikyoku users. You said yourself that you don't know Japanese, so the credibility of what you say is low. I haven't read the Avesta light novel, but I've read Avesta summaries by people who know Japanese, and they all say that Magsarion reached the Big Bang while fighting Khvarenah (which was probably an incomplete Big Bang, but still a Big Bang regardless)


Nobody ever proved that it transcends dimensions, so hyperdimension is very likely correct one


Mitra's cosmology was based on Zoroastrian mythology. Muzan's cosmology was based on the Sepirot and the Divine Comedy. Hajun's cosmology was some buddhism / samurai shit and Amaterasu's cosmology was a combination of all. If you disagree, prove that 13 dimensions in Muzan's cosmology also exist in Mercurius's cosmology or Hajun's cosmology


They were one Throne that was taken over and changed by different people. If there were multiple Thrones then Naraka rangers or original Naraka were not in the Throne anymore. Hajun's singularity was more powerful than Marie's Throne, because he changed and amplified Throne and singularity, beyond Throne in Marie time


Infinite Multiverse. Throne transcending everything

you didn't address my arguments

I did

https://vsbattles.com/threads/shinza-is-back.149258/post-5509311

beside the fact that I answered after the mods went off kek,you didn't address any of the 1A arg I sent

show this

I mean,the script is literally this,Rindou was looking at how selfish those in the tournament were

No? Prove it first of all,2nd:in the same chapter,Mithra called zero something different from her,like,read avesta dude,That's why the observers are not of any God's domain

I can debate on Hajun>Naraka using only what Masada said in a few interviews

Mithra is never referred to as zero,heck,zero is explicitly beyond her

Varhram comes from Zero aka from before Mithra was a throne goddess

and he had not taikyoku,I know what you talk about but it was not taikyoku,this is why Shinga was unkilled till he unleashed his taikyoku(paradise lost)

first of all:it was incomplete,Khvarenah's Big bang had been compromised by the divine sword before he came to life and that's also why he didn't beat Mithra lol

Ok so you ignored directly what happened,Khvarenah was incomplete,I can take the chapter rn and show you that even his taik name was incomplete because of this

show it and also 2nd of all:incomplete taikyoku so irrelevant

No? The statement refers to Hadou Gods and even then,Nerose made his era unaffected by Naraka

first of all:I read avesta and whenever there are mistranslations,there is directly a friend who knows jap and went there several times and corrects me so honestly this way of discrediting me is baseless

Khvarenah's big bang was incomplete,reading the summaries is not reading the chapters themselves unlike me who have avesta physically here,2nd:those who supposedly know jap should be?

I did,also no,you are just assuming

I alr proved that there are infinite dimensions in Mithra's universe,Muzan's is even bigger and let alone Hajun's

no? Nerose directly said that his throne is parallel to Muzan's,even if you read the final battle of Paralost you would know that kek

this is false lol

so you are just agreeing with me lol

ok so you have some scans but not for everything as I have yet to see singularity being into creation

This is derailing, take it out

@PrinceofPein

While I am not completely blind to the thread's premise, its accomplishment can be summarized as follows:

You have not been updating the vote tally for the past 6 pages, despite it being your responsibility to do so on a regular basis. As a result, the thread has become a negative and toxic environment due to the constant calls to call out “supporters” on their BS.

what is the point in updating the vote tally when the arguments are still on, if you mean votes on people who agree for it to be back that will not be necessary, as that is agreed upon already, what is left is either they come back as what was proposed on the blog or we go back and make an actual CRT, so we are waiting on DT for that

There are currently two options available before this thread is moved to RvR and closed.

and why exactly will the thread be moved to RvR? like ???

1. The first option is for you to update the vote tally and focus on the thread's original purpose, which was to discuss the return of a particular verse and create a new CRT for tiering, character, and cosmology discussion. Additionally, you can present your blogs as you had previously stated that you had been working on them for months.

If you also read the thread instead of doing your holier than thou stuffs, you will know that the original purpose is concluded already, the verse is okay to be back, what we have left is that what tier, which we need DT for

1. Alternatively, if you continue to focus solely on calling out supporters and contributing to a negative atmosphere, the thread will be reported and used as evidence against you.

Evidence for what offense?
Callin people out on wrong info has never been an offense and will never be

Also stop trying to analyse people or scenarios if they did not ask you to, that stuff is really weird

I quoted your message

and what did I say in that mesasage? "satanael created being who have no sins in hope of reaching keter but he still could not" which part of this equate to you saying I said that "beings with no sin can reach keter"?

Hell was located below the physical universe, and yet it could affect dimensions higher than the universe, which shows that none of those dimensions were spatial. Because the dimensions that went down could also affect the dimensions that went up (Two different directions). Also, the fact that innocence allowed a person to enter those dimensions and sin could neutralize their energies shows that they are not spatially infinitely higher dimensions, but spiritual dimensions. Prove that those dimensions were spatial and each dimension was infinitely higher than the other, because the fact that something is called a higher dimension and its beings are stronger than the beings of a lower dimension does not mean that higher dimension in question is spatial and infinitely higher. You can be one spiritual dimension higher than others and destroy the inhabitants of lower spiritual dimensions with a glance because you are far stronger. You also never played Paradise Lost either

Dude stop acting like this and tag where I said this dimensions are spatial, I said otherwise infact, so please stop this shit, here is literally what I said

Also these dimensions are not spatial Dimensions but spiritual dimensions, so there can be no argument of the throne being referred to as having spatial properties.

Maybe if you paid attention, also yes I have read PL completely, head to toe and watched **** tons of whatever I can find

I read it, can you stop slandering anyone who disagrees with you? All those who disagree with you read your blog

If you did, why did you say I was referring to those dimensions as spatial dimensions in the blog? like help me understand that

Stop crying. In fact, I request the to close this thread because you keep lying, changing your words, insulting others and claiming that they don't know anything about Shinza, saying that they didn't read your blog. Your blog is clearly rushed, messy and bad, none of your claims are new and all of them were debunked in Yuri's threads, you are not even a knowlegeable member, you don't know Japanese, and you are using second-hand information. Also, you keep using the fallacies, I never said that infinite dimensions are necessary. From what I already knew of you, you were the worst person for restoring Shinza

Why because I am trying to fix a verse you helped mess up so bad, you are getting angry over it?
To prove the fact that you are filled with BS

• you said I have been lying, please tag the lies
• You said I keep changing my words, please tag the instance
• You said I am insulting others, tag the insult (well maybe "misguided fans" but I mean that, lol you literally supported someone who said PL has 23 higher dimensions, he is mixing up leylines with dimensions, which was why I started ignoring him, so Yes if you guys can bring such BS info, you are misguided)
• Yuri's thread, No offence to Yuri but their thread was wrong and he admitted it, literally mistranslation carried the whole thread.
• Second-hand information? Proof of that
• Debunked claims? like which part my claims are (- The world can have higher dimensions, the gods are unaffected by what happens in creation cause they transcend it, the singularity is the canvas in which the gods can do whatever they want) so which of them have been debunked, or your skills end at you spouting wrong things?
• Saying you have absolutely no idea about what you are saying when you really do not have an idea is not a fallacy.
• Not even a knowledgeable member? I can only say LMAO, if I am not knowledgeable on shinza then someone like you can be considered to live in a world that does not even have shinza
• I do not know japanese? I never claimed to be an expert on Japanese, I do know japanese, do I speak it or read it fluently without dictionary and helps? NO, but I will say I am pretty okay for someone who started learning in less than a year
• The blog is rushed? yes, has wrong informations? NO, thats all that matters, an accurate blog.
• From what I already knew of you, you like passing wrong info as the right one.

Now do you have any other misguided and wrong accusations you want to make? I really do not know what you are maddening about.
Do you have something in the blog that I said that is wrong that you will like to argue? Cause frankly all these your useless long talks are not necessary, if you have an argument about in the blog, then copy the blog section here and then bring your arguments, with your scans that supports your claims. Just coming here and saying, I don't like this, I don't want this is just frankly BS

 

[ImmortalDread]

I will move it to RvR, with this behavior, you won't gain anything in this thread.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I will move it to RvR, with this behavior, you won't gain anything in this thread.

Sure

 

[Darksmash]

Put me in disagree

 

[PrinceofPein]

@DontTalkDT @Antvasima @Everything12 @First_Witch @Ultima_Reality
If you guys do not mind since this thread initial premise that Shinza should be undeleted has been accepted, we will not pudate the pages yet, rather we will create a new CRT to discuss the tiers then afterwards we can bring back the verse based on the tiers agreed upon in that thread

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was informed the thread should be closed; it can be remade as a staff with a few users being given permission to comment to avoid chaos, but for now the thread has been derailed and gotten circular from what I heard.