Son Goku fights the God of Thunder (12-16-0).

[A_Stoned_Orc]

More than that, Beerus has not existed for hundreds of millions of years. It is stated several times he's only been a God of Destruction for 75 million years.

 

[Dragomer]

-snip-
It's under the absorption and redirection section, not the absorption section and it clearly mean the totality of the power Glory put into the attack, it's not like when he took energy to amp himself against Sentry.

Also even if we say Thor redirect Goku's kamehameha and does it fully, which is unlikely since it's both homing and Goku has experience against absorbers so he'd just stop the blast, Goku can just dodge, teleport or tank it with little to not damage (we saw Goku tank his own kamehameha multiple time) so that's hardly a win condition.

Doesn't matter if it's homing, it'd just be drawn into Mjolnir if Thor absorbs it. Doesn't matter if he "stops the blast", if he fires it all, enough energy will be released for Thor to absorb, since energy continues to travel in DB after firing.
It matters a lot since it can counter said 'drawn to Mjolnir' effect.

Energy continue because the characters keep feeding it and once again, what Thor absorb and redirect won't be able to hurt Goku even if he somehow just stand there and take it and if he absorb, that won't be enough to close the AP gap, unless we assume Goku put everything he has in a single blast.

 

[Akreious]

No, it's widely agreed on the wiki that Iron Fist, Taskmaster, Black Panther, Captain America, and the other peak skill Marvel characters outskill anybody in Dragon Ball. Don't believe me, check the five different skill threads. If Thor has combat skill on their level (tho tbh I doubt it), then he wins in combat.

Yeah, no. Unless those guys are making new combat styles on the fly that is better than thousand-year old Martial Arts styles and copying Ki Techniques by just looking at it once (Reminder that Ki Techniques IS MARTIAL ARTS. They're specifically Martial Arts Techniques), I call 100% bullshit on that.

Also no, that still means jack shit even if that is the consensus. Feats is what matters here and simply saying "Oh it's the consensus" means absolutely nothing when it was the consensus that Dragon Ball should've gotten a million upgrades but it was only due to staff disagreeing that it was rejected.

So you can't use the "consensus" argument, Cal.

 

[Nitro90]

Goku has a skill advantage base on Analytical prediction alone. Experience doesn't mean anything against better skill feats. Iron fist is a bad example considering Thor is vastly stronger and faster.

"Thor has fought teleporters before,and beat them" How does that generalized statement support anything with no context behind it.

Glory laughter has haxes behind it's not just AP base He was able to kill Glory after Glory released a gigantic blast that had all he's power. That's OOC for Goku to do

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Achieving UI being a skill feat? UI was the biggest plot convenience in DB since the Ultra Divine Water.

The GoDs don't have combat experience, or at least crazy amounts of it. If Beerus is anything to go by, they spend most their time sleeping and the rest of it lazily blowing up anything in their way.

That's because they've reached the pinnacle, aside from UI. They weren't born as GoDs.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Martial art? Goku barked and leapt around like a wild animal to catch Roshi off guard. Don't go parading that as some insane skill feat. Crazy Monkey was a gag

 

[Dragomer]

No, it's widely agreed on the wiki that Iron Fist, Taskmaster, Black Panther, Captain America, and the other peak skill Marvel characters outskill anybody in Dragon Ball. Don't believe me, check the five different skill threads. If Thor has combat skill on their level (tho tbh I doubt it), then he wins in combat.

And all those threads agreed that Ikki would cream all of them while the latest thread agreed that John Wick was stupidly more skilled than Ikki, skill debate are a new fad on this wiki and have no actual wiki wide consensus, i also disagree entirely on the very notion of Iron Fist and Taskmaster being more skilled than Goku or the notion that Black Panther and captain america are anywhere near any of those three in term of skill.

Thor doesn't, as i said, it's made clear that Thor has a massive advantage in stats while Iron Fist skill-clown him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ki is as much martial arts as Ikki's insane stuff that he does is normal skill anyone can do. Goku learning how to Kamehameha after seeing it once is a testament to his power, not his skill. Unless Buu is the greatest martial artist amongst them.

 

[Dragomer]

More than that, Beerus has not existed for hundreds of millions of years. It is stated several times he's only been a God of Destruction for 75 million years.

No, it was stated he sealed the Elder Kaioshin in the Z sword 75 million years ago while already being a GoD, that's what was stated.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Ki is as much martial arts as Ikki's insane stuff HST he does is normal skill. Goku learning how to Kamehameha after seeing it once is a testament to his power, not his skill. Unless Buu is the greatest martial artist amongst them.

Power has nothing to do with copying a technique lol what? It's skill based power mimicry in it's simplest form.

 

[Dragomer]

Ki is as much martial arts as Ikki's insane stuff HST he does is normal skill. Goku learning how to Kamehameha after seeing it once is a testament to his power, not his skill. Unless Buu is the greatest martial artist amongst them.

And Ikki's insane stuff is accepted as skill so i don't see the issue, same for Sun Wukong, most of his 'skill' is just magic bulshit but that's how skill works in his verse, DB follow the same.

It was a gag and yet it's style Goku just instantly created, hell it's even noted Goku would have instantly copied Roshi's style if he knew what being drunk was.

And Krillin and Roshi fighting in 0.1 second was also a gag yet it's still a feat.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

From the series itself, so long as you have the power and know the fundamentals, cdoing the hand formation is enough.

And what? Skill based? Buu learns it instantly. Buu has no skill whatsoever.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Ki is as much martial arts as Ikki's insane stuff that he does is normal skill anyone can do. Goku learning how to Kamehameha after seeing it once is a testament to his power, not his skill. Unless Buu is the greatest martial artist amongst them.

It took Roshi a 100 years of training to gather enough of his ki control to invent the technique.

Goku did it instantly without understanding what Ki is. So yeah, that's pure skill.

Buu had a Supreme Kai inside of him when he copied the kamehameha, so...

 

[Nitro90]

Buu was able to copy teleportation after seeing it once he copy a completely new ability that's different from copying Kamehameha which is skill base

 

[Dragomer]

From the series itself, so long as you have the power and know the fundamentals, cdoing the hand formation is enough.
And what? Skill based? Buu learns it instantly. Buu has no skill whatsoever.

The 'fundamentals' being 'almost the totality of the knowledge of the greatest martial artist on earth to the point he believe he need to make up rivals for you because no one can actualy match you and that would make you an arrogant ********'.

Buu litteraly pass the whole arc outsmarting and outskilling everyone and since this is the manga version, he has all the stuff of the grand supreme kaioshin who was bulshit skills.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Buu has no skill whatsoever.

Bullshit

 

[BrazilianDeadpool]

Thor FRA

 

[Omegas03]

4 hours until grace ends.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Buu having no skill is almost as nonsensical as Thor outskilling Goku lol

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Buu's a dumbass, with or without the supreme kai. That's his entire character. Why on earth are you trying to justify him being skilled in the slightest?

Goku shot a laser. I don't care what background on it there is, there's no actual skill involved in what he did. Same with Roshi. Skill can't be quantified via giant murder beams.

 

[Dragomer]

4 hours until grace ends.

Let's be honest, grace ends when someone request it to be added, no one is going to check either way, it could probably be added right now.

I think the warrior's madness vote should be discounted since it was agreed to be a win for Goku if Thor does it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thor FRA

Goku FRA

 

[Dragomer]

Buu's a dumbass, with or without the supreme kai. That's his entire character. Why on earth are you trying to justify him being skilled in the slightest?
Goku shot a laser. I don't care what background on it there is, there's no actual skill involved in what he did. Same with Roshi. Skill can't be quantified via giant murder beams.

Iron Fist did a flashy punch with a bad posture, i don't care what background on it there is, there's no skill in ******* up a proper punch, same for every character in fiction ever.

 

[Akreious]

So what's going on is "Thor is more skillful because he just is since he's older regardless of Goku's actual feats".

That is LITERALLY what's going on. And people say Dragon Ball fanboys are unreasonable >_>

As for Kamehameha requiring no skill, that is downright ignorant at best. It took a Martial Arts prodigy in his own right developing the technique and fine control for literal decades before he could squeek a kamehameha out.

You simply cannot dismiss this simply because you don't like it Cal.

 

[Nitro90]

From the series itself, so long as you have the power and know the fundamentals, cdoing the hand formation is enough.

And what? Skill based? Buu learns it instantly. Buu has no skill whatsoever.

1. Is that in the manga 2. Krillin has seen it been done before and still failed the first time trying meaning the move is not easy

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Goku shot a laser. I don't care what background on it there is, there's no actual skill involved in what he did. Same with Roshi. Skill can't be quantified via giant murder beams.

Ah, so we ignore verse established stuff, eh?

And no, it is skill. You need to learn proper ki control. Said control took the greatest martial artist on the planet a 100 years of intense and non stop training to achieve. Goku didn't even knew what Ki was, nor sense it, nor apply it before training under Roshi. Yet he copied it.

I don't care how much you hate the fandom or Super's writing, you are 100% wrong.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Ok but why are arguing about "100 years of experience in ki control" when Thor has feats fighting those who master martial arts from many cultures for thousands of years?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Check the skill threads. The majority agrees that if it's not quantifiable, it's not skill. It's the reason why Khorne, the literal concept of fighting, doesn't top the skill lists. You can quantify the skill feats of the street tiers. Because they're measurable things. Bullseye throwing a playing card with enough force and precision to slit someone's throat in a window hundreds of yards away? Quantifiable skill. Something that can be measured. Taskmaster being able to conduct an entire orchestra despite not knowing how to read music? Quantifiable. Something that can be measured. Vegeta earning how to turn his body into a living bomb? Not quantifiable. Can't be measured.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

What "100 years" tell us is that is normally insanely difficult to do even for someone with as enormous skill and experience as Roshi, yet Goku did it instantly, showcasing his adaptability and insane potential.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Ok but why are arguing about "100 years of experience in ki control" when Thor has feats fighting those who master martial arts from many cultures for thousands of years?

Because Goku did this as a child with no ki knowledge.

Adult Goku surpassed Beerus in skill who has hundreds of millions of years of experience.

 

[Dragomer]

Ok but why are arguing about "100 years of experience in ki control" when Thor has feats fighting those who master martial arts from many cultures for thousands of years?

Because that's the minimum skill needed to have a technique that Goku litteraly instantly learned without knowing about it.

Goku has feats of using an improving on the techniques of a millions years old martial art master like King Kai, who couldn't even use Kaioken himself while Goku push it 20x in barely a few months, if we use age as a skill metrics, Goku has his fair share of old masters left in the dust.

Also most of those master didn't have 1/1000000th of Thor's raw stats while Goku was stupidly weaker than Roshi.

 

[KageSakaDark]

Check the skill threads. The majority agrees that if it's not quantifiable, it's not skill. It's the reason why Khorne, the literal concept of fighting, doesn't top the skill lists. You can quantify the skill feats of the street tiers. Because they're measurable things. Bullseye throwing a playing card with enough force and precision to slit someone's throat in a window hundreds of yards away? Quantifiable skill. Something that can be measured. Taskmaster being able to conduct an entire orchestra despite not knowing how to read music? Quantifiable. Something that can be measured. Vegeta earning how to turn his body into a living bomb? Not quantifiable. Can't be measured.

Honestly, you could just call Earl here right now and see how this newly formed skill thread turns out. I am sure it will be beautiful.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Check the skill threads.

I don't care.

 

[Dragomer]

Check the skill threads. The majority agrees that if it's not quantifiable, it's not skill. It's the reason why Khorne, the literal concept of fighting, doesn't top the skill lists. You can quantify the skill feats of the street tiers. Because they're measurable things. Bullseye throwing a playing card with enough force and precision to slit someone's throat in a window hundreds of yards away? Quantifiable skill. Something that can be measured. Taskmaster being able to conduct an entire orchestra despite not knowing how to read music? Quantifiable. Something that can be measured. Vegeta earning how to turn his body into a living bomb? Not quantifiable. Can't be measured.

The skills threads also all agree on Ikki having the best skill on this wiki because he outskilled Fate Hax, how the hell is that quantifiable ?

How is Goku being stated to create 2 whole new style from nowhere not quantifiable ? how is him being said to be able to learn any style Roshi can use instantly except the drunken fist (because he doesn't know what 'drunk' or 'alcohol' is) not quantifiable ?

Also the majority also agreed DBH should be 2-A, yet it was ignored and overturned by staff decision multiple time.

 

[Nitro90]

Can we get off of Buu he's not in this fight

To make it simple does Thor have any actual skill feats of he's own not by blank statements of " he's older" which we know in real life and fiction doesn't work on it's own. And he beat this character even tho he could sneeze and win against

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don't care.

Opinionated and subjective threads are irrelevant here as far as I'm concerned tbh.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What "100 years" tell us is that is normally insanely difficult to do even for someone with as enormous skill and experience as Roshi, yet Goku did it instantly, showcasing his adaptability and insane potential.

Then tell me, can Goku do any of the things I mentioned above because he learned how to use superhuman powers? Does Goku instantly learning the kamehameha (something the not-even-four-years-old Piccolo did just to see if he could) mean he could perform any of the insane skill feats shown on the skill thread if his saiyan physiology was stripped? Something tells me the answer there was no. Heck, how does it even increase his h2h skill?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"Honestly, you could just call Earl here right now and see how this newly formed skill thread turns out. I am sure it will be beautiful."

I already did.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

No Goku did it instantly not showing any skill what so ever but prodigious talent. He just has accelerated development in comparison to everyone else. That's like saying because Gon and Killua mastered levels of Nen that would take years and decades to complete for a normal user, they're somehow more skilled. No they're literally just way more talented.

Adult Goku surpassed Beerus in skill? Not only is this not confirmed but it doesn't mean anything. Beerus hasn't shown or been stated to have experienced hundreds of combat and martial art skills. The best thing he's done is pressure point strikes.

King Kai has no skill feats or skill statements at all either. He's just age alone which means nothing. If he spent millions of years going round planets, learning all their combat skills I would understand.

"Also most of those master didn't have 1/1000000th of Thor's raw stats while Goku was stupidly weaker than Roshi."

You don't know this. Though I need confirming on this feat.

 

[Dragomer]

What "100 years" tell us is that is normally insanely difficult to do even for someone with as enormous skill and experience as Roshi, yet Goku did it instantly, showcasing his adaptability and insane potential.

Then tell me, can Goku do any of the things I mentioned above because he learned how to use superhuman powers? Does Goku instantly learning the kamehameha (something the not-even-four-years-old Piccolo did just to see if he could) mean he could perform any of the insane skill feats shown on the skill thread if his saiyan physiology was stripped? Something tells me the answer there was no.

Litteraly none of Goku's ability except Zenkai and his SSJ forms are related to his saiyan physiology so yes, he very much could so, he litteraly learn to purely on the movement of air before the term 'saiyan' ever existed

Making up new styles and being able to copy them instantly like Goku is basicaly the same Taskmaster directing the orchestra (since he just copied the moves of an orchestre leader), one of Roshi's exercise is litteraly to throw a stone kilometers away and having Goku and Krillin search for it, which Goku find with smell alone, which he developed thanks to living in the mountain (it can't be because he is a saiyan, since it wasn't a thing back then and none of the other saiyans show stuff like that), that's skill.

Only thing Goku can't reproduce is the throwing feat because we never saw him use throwing weapons since he always had other ranged option like the Nyobo.