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ok, chimera fra then
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Simon the Digger vs Chimera (GRACE ENDED)
- Thread starter ThanatosX
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I'm lost here, since I'm late it's hard to read this entire thread. What are Chimera's wincons on Toaru sides?
Anyway, I should say that Simon as well, can exist in nonexistent place since the Giga Drill clashes between STTGL and the Super Granzeboma created a Big Crunch that turned the Anti-Spiral's dimension into a literal void with no space and time, before remaking them in instant.
Simon isn't just "infinitely" above baseline, Simon is like, an infinite number of 11D universes level of High 1-C with several chain scalings, even if we assume infinite number of 11D universes here makes him only infinitely above High 1-C, like 2-A = infinite baseline Low 2-C, he still got fucktons of chain scalings to trivialize Chimera AP-wise on this case.
Also as for the misconception, the "thought" here is no conciousness, et cetera. But rather it is the true essence of Spiral Power since now they are the manifestation of the entire multiverse. Spiral Power is fundamental, it is a power source which shaped everything in the multiverse and amplifies them that are spiral-shaped; multiverse, galaxy, willpower, hope, etc, as well creating and destroying the entire creation like alpha and omega, aka literally it served as the underpinning of The Universe itself. I don't understand why would bypassing their abstract natures is no needed in order to harm their souls at the first place. Them all are explained in my blog already which was accepted eon ago, just see "Spiral Power" and "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann" sections.
Edit: If this is important, their probability manipulation is strong enough to affect type 4 acausals and yes you can argue it doesn't warrant them probability changes, but the Anti-Spiral are totally unbound by the multiverse, it's not just a character with irregular causal system or anything.
Anyway, I should say that Simon as well, can exist in nonexistent place since the Giga Drill clashes between STTGL and the Super Granzeboma created a Big Crunch that turned the Anti-Spiral's dimension into a literal void with no space and time, before remaking them in instant.
Simon isn't just "infinitely" above baseline, Simon is like, an infinite number of 11D universes level of High 1-C with several chain scalings, even if we assume infinite number of 11D universes here makes him only infinitely above High 1-C, like 2-A = infinite baseline Low 2-C, he still got fucktons of chain scalings to trivialize Chimera AP-wise on this case.
Also as for the misconception, the "thought" here is no conciousness, et cetera. But rather it is the true essence of Spiral Power since now they are the manifestation of the entire multiverse. Spiral Power is fundamental, it is a power source which shaped everything in the multiverse and amplifies them that are spiral-shaped; multiverse, galaxy, willpower, hope, etc, as well creating and destroying the entire creation like alpha and omega, aka literally it served as the underpinning of The Universe itself. I don't understand why would bypassing their abstract natures is no needed in order to harm their souls at the first place. Them all are explained in my blog already which was accepted eon ago, just see "Spiral Power" and "Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann" sections.
Edit: If this is important, their probability manipulation is strong enough to affect type 4 acausals and yes you can argue it doesn't warrant them probability changes, but the Anti-Spiral are totally unbound by the multiverse, it's not just a character with irregular causal system or anything.
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It never was, you're saying an infinite baseline Low 2-C or Low 2-C with infinite multiplier are equal to 2-A at this point. What makes multiple universes superior to a single universe is in fact, an unquantifiable distance between them as it could be milimeters, kilometers, light years away, infinity, or even higher infinity. At most they are equal, but there's still a possibility that the latter is superior like seems what most of people thinks in this forum.
Also, There is no such thing as "go bring it up with the staff" since a multiplier of Low 2-C being capable to reach higher levels of Tier 2 was never merit. Also, there is no such thing as "It only works on Tier 2!" since the distance between universes is still a thing on any Tiers, higher Tier 1's are just more about dimensional variants.
Edit: My points here was confirmed by Agnaa, I can assure you that they are correct.
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Also, apologize for my ignorance to Toaru verse, but could Chimera's hax affect 11D beings at the first place? I don't see any 11D implications for any of Magic Gods here to hax nor dimensional existence besides their powers and strength, or at least, any feats that their hax extends on 11D range.
Yes this is important because Simon is 11D.
Yes this is important because Simon is 11D.
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Magic God's affect all dimensions when they change the world, including everything up to 11-D space. Chimera herself is actually also PHYSICALLY infinity larger than 11-D space itself, and would erase all of said dimensions by virtue of existing at peak power, hence their need to use the zombie spell.
Though she is unrestricted by it in this match, therefore 11-D space no longer exists right out the bat, making this question pointless.
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Yes it does still exist. As we’ve established, the Multiverse, which is infinite and 11D, is integrated as a part of Simon. For it to stop existing, she’d have to surpass his durability, which he currently is at the top of High 1-C in terms of raw strength
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TL;DR + That's how the tiering system works + ratio
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Which is what Chimera does by existing. 11-D space cannot contain her power or size and even moving a finger is enough to emplode said dimensions and space until there's nothing left, so Simon is basically constantly exploding internally then by Chimera just existing.
At that point, probability manip doesn't matter since they exceed 11-D space. If what you say is true, she damages and wrecks Simon's existence just by existing.
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Just ask your friends here (or your Toaru group) if that's what they are agreed on at the first place. Not only there's no Type 10 Large Size on her profile but as my memory recall, the context behind it was merely about passive High 1-C destruction via having infinitely greater power than the whole cosmology. But let's assume her hax can extend to High 1-C range, sure.
Not if Simon can survive a void with no space and time, the two Giga Drill clashes suck up everything in the Anti-Spiral's dimension and transcends time and space. What does that mean? A Big Crunch, an inverse of a Big Bang which could create a universe as whole aka a spacetime continuum in Gurren Lagann.
It never was (2). Either cite a source or ask Agnaa or Ultima. This also has been established on the previous Simon vs High Priest thread. Why y'll insisting a 11D universe that extends to infinite size is equal to an infinite number of 11D universes when empirically it couldn't be proven?
Simon can survive in a void with no timeline and has far higher durability in comparison, turning this whole argument into akin a void itself.
For the battle itself, saying that his Abstract Existence is merely just a thought-based is an ignorance, since they are materialized as Spiral Power which encompasses the thought, willpower, hope, abstract timeline, and all possibilities that are already existed or will exist (check my blog). Even if it's just a thought (emotion, actually) it lies on greater level than the space and time of Gurren Lagann, because "thought" is a subset of Spiral Power, making Chimera wouldn't able to touch Simon due to his Abstract Existence.
Simon resist Mind Manipulation on infinite conciousness level since he escaped the Extradimensional Labyrinth (the number of conciousnessess is one of the factors to determine said hax's potential), so unless Chimera has a Mind Manipulation on that level she won't able to mental-**** him anyway, although his Abstract Existence already did the job.
Simon lacks Soul Manipulation resistance/immunity, yes, but his Abstract Existence already did the job.
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Heavens_Feel
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this is not even close to existing in nonexistant space. creating a big bang/big crunch does not fit the criteria. At best this is a disingenious misrepresentation of facts or just straight up lying/wank.
Your memey infinite scaling chain doesn't work on vsbattles. infinitely above infinite is still just infinite. not 100xinfinite, 100000xinfinite, doesn't matter. it's still infinite and putting any number after infinity completely ignores the concept that infinity is supposed to represent in the first place. which is it's beyond the concept of numbers.
Ok. I wasn't sure the first time whether it was disingenuous or lying wank. I see that it is now that latter. you are straight up lying. Which means that continuing this conversation is pointless but i'm going to humour it just for one more post.
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And you're acting like fiction doesn't already do illogical stuff like this. The verse treats it as more powerful, so it is accepted as more powerful. And that is like saying 2-A characters can only be baseline, since their AP is already that of an infinite multiverse, but it has been explicitly stated on the Tiering System FAQ that you can be above the baseline for 2-A if the verse treats it as a better feat. As I've already said before, the verse treats the characters as being far more powerful than a simple infinite multiverse. Staff had accepted the scaling chain, the infinity^3 thing, and as GI mentioned previously, Agnaa and Ultima accept this. All in all, trying to apply things such as "beyond infinity is impossible" to fiction is just disregarding what fiction is supposed to be, most of what goes on isn't possible irl, and we still accept that it happens
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No. You don't even have to recall just read the profile: would accidentally destroy the world by moving an arm or a leg since she's too big of an existence for the world
This isn't remotely enough evidence for non-existence/nothingness. Read the void standards.
Read what DT said about infinity multipliers above or message him. He was consulted on our current tiering system.
See my above reasoning.
Even so, still no counter to law, probability, mathematics and soul hax...
This is mind destruction and like already said, Chimera scales above one who can casually control every living being that ever existed, possibly throughout countless realities.
See the above.
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Ah, a strawmanning I see.
Where's the part about them existing in a void after the whole spacetime is destroyed because a Big Crunch you're missing? And when did I say creating a Big Bang/Big Crunch qualifies as having such feat? Never, actually.
Kids knows that, and I'm very confident that I understand the basic of Set Theory, on how it works. Set Theory is the reason why addition/multiplication of infinity won't reach higher cardinality because there's one to one correspondence (bijection) from one to another, because you need exponentiation and power set in order to reach the first uncountably infinite aka aleph-1. Higher infinity exist and not all infinities are equal.
Also, it is very ironic for you to say that since our standards already said that an infinite multiplier of Low 2-C is unable to reach 2-A because the range between them universes is unknownable, aka an infinite 11D universe to infinite 11D universes on this case.
Even if we assume they are equal, chain scalings exist. We can reach higher level of AP via chain scaling even after our power reached infinity already.
Now, I don't know on whether I can take you seriously or not, why don't you refute it with at least slightly more appropriate arguments rather than screaming that I'm wanking? Honestly, it sounds like you're lowballing right now.
Anyway...
That's cool and all. but this battle is over the instant Chimera exists and the world is ended and all that remains is the hidden world, which Simon cannot do anything in if he even survives Chimeras appearance. Which he doesn't.
Simon can survive in nothingness, the thing you haven't refuted yet but screaming I'm just wrong.
more wank and lying statements. what actually happened, if you watched the show, is he realised he had a job to do and wasn't tricked (not falling for manipulation does not = infinite mind manipulation or whatever you seem to think it is)
I don't understand what you're trying to say, speak english. Also the Extradimensional Labyrinth is indeed traps an infinite number of conciousnesses which Simon can escaped.
Don't worry about the Soul manipulation. He doesn't get that far for it to matter here.
You can do that with power and passive destruction, most of your Toaru fans literally believes that they are 3D still (as I recall, even @DontTalkDT as well) so you better argue against them, not me. I see no Large Size and it change nothing here even if she had one.
Where? And what. A void with no time and space literally is what a void is.
I understand how infinities works and what DontTalk said was totally non-sequitur, we are talking about the gap between universes which are unknownable and chain scalings, not just addition/multiplication of infinities after the first infinity.
I have, I did.
Simon embodies his very possibilities on all places and points of time, them that are ever existed or will exist on every universes, which is why he has Type 2 acausality at the first place (not just Type 4) so any probability hax may be utterly useless. Even so, Chimera need to bypass Simon's Abstract Existence as well in order to affect him anyway.
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to people saying that an 11-D multiverse is the same as an 11-D universe, go crt the entirety of tier 2 to be one tier, because that is the exact same logic as here, the entire of tier 2 is just infinity stacking, and if you really wanna go deep on it, delete every tier that isn't 11-C because everything after 0-D is just infinity stacking
just no, N, R, and C say otherwise, infinity is not beyond the concept of numbers, so unless you are talking about what cantor thought of as absolute infinity, which is what he thought was god with a capital G, I'm even going to touch the rest of your post because you would have an easier time dragging me down to the 9th circle of hell while I am kicking and screaming that to get me to comment on this thread again
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ok, now i dunno... maybe i should switch to inconclusive
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I have no idea what you're talking about, but I bolded you where it explicitly said she's too big for the world on the profile. The existence layering doesn't make sense otherwise... The main point being the world is passively annihilated leaving behind nonexistence that Simon can do nothing in.
Uh we're talking non-existent realms; a place that doesn't exist. Empty space from a singularity collapse made from big bangs/crunches that still "exist" in the conventional sense don't apply. It doesn't even explicitly state the "void" lacks space and time in video and text that you linked me and with good reason, a big crunch doesn't destroy space or anything it just makes it compressed... the big bang model presupposes that space/time and matter all existed and big crunch model also supposes this... Transcending time and space is cool but like has already been discuss above it lacks the context to be relevant here.
DT was directly responding to those posting where Simon scales to above baseline, but ok. I'll wait for DT to answer.
Acausality has nothing to do with probability hax.
She still kills him with law, mathematics and passive mind + soul hax while he can't respond due to passive probability hax and non-existence.
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Can she passively destroy an 11D infinite multiverse? Because Simon has this integrated to his body
Simon still keeps his cosmology everywhere he goes. Has that realm ever made a multiverse, of that structure and size, just disappear?
So are the points I made above Simon having passive probability just being thrown to the side? Because no one has actually debunked it yet. Simon NEEDS to keep Probability Manipulation active at all times in order to actually fight with the Anti-Spiral, since the latter said the chances of winning in his universe is absolutely 0, which is not hyperbole, and is corroborated by Yoko shooting Granzeboma multiple times, and not doing any whatsoever damage. Anti-Spiral also said that he'd fight on an equal playing field, sticking to the Absolute Despair Grindset, meaning him not getting damaged isn't him being superior in durability
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I mean... you argue them, not me. Even if she has passive destruction on High 1-C level it doesn't really mean anything if Simon has higher level of durability via numerous chain scalings, and he can survive in the void too.
A Big Crunch compresses time and space into a singularity as in the contrary to the Big Bang expanded them from initial singularity, anything on the realm besides the singularity is indeed a nonexistent place and we saw it as such, everything in the Anti-Spiral's dimension becomes invisible. "Transcending time and space" here, means that it collapses them not just the physical matters, that's what I'm trying to say.
If you collapse time and space said plane will become nonexistent, as you literally remove everything in it including history, laws, and even concepts (via domino-effect), unless if there's higher realm of existence or something.
Then he may be misunderstood, since reaching something higher than infinity via chain scaling is a common knowledge. That's one of the way to get higher level of 2-A, besides having an implication that the destruction of multiple set of infinite multiverse > infinite multiverse as per verse.
It can or it can't, however, Simon embodies his very possibilities throughout the multiverse, on every places and points of time, them that are ever existed or will exist, so you can argue that there's no possibility that Chimera could manipulate since Simon already have them first. Although, the Abstract Existence argument is still a thing which makes her hax kind of useless if she can't touch him. Simon's Abstract Existence is fundamental, he embodies thought, space, time, possibilities, emotion, hope, etc -> Spiral Power is the underpinning of The Universe.
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I didn't raise anything about durability or scaling chains... I'm saying he's passively pulled into nonexistence where he won't be able to do anything as he doesn't have the powers to do so. See below.
What???? A singularity is still a thing that exists. You're not understanding by non-existent it literally means; doesn't exist. A Big Crunch doesn't destroy space or anything like that, it just makes it compressed... If you wanted to maxwank this the best you could get is "being durable" and "space manipulation resistance", but nothing else. And like I said before, the big bang model presupposes that space/time and matter all existed beforehand and the big crunch model also supposes this. The Big Bang is effectively a universe "post crunch" in that it's The Whole Universe as A Point, but there was still space that the "singularity" exists in and there was also time to cause that bang... Anyways, your appeal to visuals is doing all the heavy lifting here and you're extrapolating a lot from that text you linked. There's no mention of time and space ceasing to exist, it just says their clash transcends time and space which means nothing here as explained above. The rest is you ascribing things that aren't in that text or aren't even synonymous with what the Big Crunch is.
I'll let DT give his opinion on that then.
There's nothing to indicate acausality effects probability hax no. That argument doesn't make sense, especially as far as Chimera is concerned. She's not manipulating Simon's possibilities or whatever, Chimera's hax scales above one who passively is only capable of infinite 100% success due to erasing all infinite 0% failure as was probably explained before. On top of that she could use mathematics manipulation hax to skew this even further if she felt the need to manipulate Simon. Abstract Existence is a non factor because a) He passively can't do anything because the above + probability/math manipulation b) he's just an abstraction of things (thought, space, time, possibilities, emotion, hope, etc) Chimera can causally manipulate and rewrite so this is looking more flimsy. He just gets law maniped and passively mind/soul haxed. /
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Yeah, see below.
Yes...? The Singularity would be still existed there but they are fighting outside the singularity so what's your point, actually? It's not like they're shrunk into the singularity too, no. A dot (singularity) in the middle of a void without time and space does not make said void not a void. And yes it is a Big Crunch that compressed the whole time and space, you don't need a direct statement of guy being able to manipulate fire if he could just visually create it on his right hand on whim in order to list him as a Fire Manipulator, unless if you're a super skeptical person. The clashes collapses everything in the Anti-Spiral's dimension into a singularity and turns everything to darkish-invisible, it was stated to transcends time and space, mentioned as a Big Crunch in Japanese Wikipedia and turned the universe into a realm of nothingness. And yes, it does involved time and space since a Big Bang created a universe as whole in Gurren Lagann. Gurren Lagann is no your typical crazy crazy animay, it still consistently follows a lot of scientific stuffs.
| "Gurren Lagann unleashes the Giga Drill Break. The power of the burning Spiral itself transforms into a gigantic Giga Drill and appears. It boasts a power that destroys a large number of universes like a grain of dirt, but because its power is evenly matched by the Anti-Spiral's "Anti-Spiral Giga Drill Break", the aftermath of the collision causes a Big Crunch that destroys not only the Super Spiral Universe, but also all universes created by Anti-Spiral. Immediately after becoming a world of nothingness, the reaction of the destructive energy and the friction between the Spirals and the Anti-Spirals caused the instantaneous creation of the Universe (Big Bang) again (Inflation), and yet the energy never ran out. What appears at the end of the collision of the two superb drills..." |
See? There's no wank here, it is just you guys being ******* desperate to defend Chimera and took downplaying path as the next strategy. Gained my respect to @BluudyManikin777 because he had the courage to admit that Simon lost earlier, although likely not anymore.
Sure.
You guys sure likes strawmanning.
Who even said that acausality has a total immunity to probability hax? No, I never said that. Context matters the most, Simon encompasses his every possibilities in the entire multiverse, past-present-future -> he takes care of his own possibilities. That makes him immune to any conventional Probability Manipulation regardless the percentages by default, that is common sense, and I'm even yet to talk about how he was able to probability fights the Anti-Spiral who are kind of similar, being completely unbound by the frameworks of the cosmology including time and gravity. But still.
Good luck with manipulating an abstract thought that resides deeper than time and space of The Universe, the Spiral Power, an aspect that makes up the entire reality as the underpinning of the cosmology. Although saying she is capable to do so without feat is...
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Since Simon does have his cosmology where ever he goes, which has a larger cosmology than To Aru’s, he should in theory, be able to automatically replace that void with one of the many infinite universes he has
I’m voting for Simon for now
I’m voting for Simon for now
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I'm voting for Simon as well unless Toaru side can give more reliable arguments but lowball.
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Not here to debate anything, all the "infinity versus infinity" stuff is beyond me, just wanted to answer this one point - it's because Toaru community on VSB is very, very careful with adding new abilities to profiles. I'll bet that if, choosing randomly, Touma was, let's say, Worm character, nobody would bat an eye on throwing fate manip, non-physical interactions, etc. to his arsenal. Alas, anything that is not super obvious and direct will usually be mentioned only in techniques section.
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I never invalidate it on the first place because its absence on the profile. Quiet much, I'm care less on regard she has Type 10 Large Size or not, if she has, then that's great. I'm just saying that I don't think we can use it if, it's not even a consensus within the community itself aka something that has been universally agreed on.
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What's the argument against Soul hax / law hax gg currently? Long debate is long.
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No argument. Honestly, Nephthys could just make it so Spiral power doesn't exist with a law and be done with it.
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Nah, while multipliers don't work I'm fine with the notion of multiverse of 11D universes > 11D universe. Although the magic gods scale infinitely above destroying hundreds of billions of 11D phases, too.
And are we sure each of the infinite universes in Gurren Lagan is 11D as opposed to, say, 5D branes in 11D space?
That said, I've given hax based arguments and hax works regardless. (At least these types of hax)
That's true, but not unconditionally so. There were talks about mind and soul hax potency, which is also the reason number isn't the only factor anymore.
Whether number of affected people is a meaningful metric depends on the mechanism. E.g. say you have a mind control gas. The ability to mind control a billion people using a billion liters of the gas, wouldn't equate to a better feat than mind controlling 1 person using 1 liter of the gas.
From the little I have read about the infinite labyrinth one has to free one's mind from its infinite branching paths, but I don't see why the difficulty of that would be equal to infinite mind hax attempts. Like, figuratively speaking, the complexity of the labyrinth doesn't indicate the toughness of its walls.
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Uh...? It's a Big Crunch... Yes, they collapse everything in that dimension into a point. What about it? I'll give you an example: Let's pretend for a moment that all the mass in the universe was just Sagittarius A. We'd have all the universe's mass in a black hole/singularity but there'd still be space. You are simply conflating destroying matter with destroying space itself. An IRL Crunch model would leaving behind "nothingness", also there would still be space left, it'd just be really dense. Moving all the matter in the universe to a point doesn't really change the situation. We'd just be talking about a bigger black hole. TLDR: "Voids" don't exist. Period point blank. There is no such thing as nothingness as it isn't real and you cannot use a scientific model to wank something into it. There is always space and there is always time. It can be at various sizes and shapes but those always exist. Everything else is just you not understanding what the Big Crunch entails or extrapolating time and space fwere destroyed from visuals when that is simply not present in the text. Hope that finally explains it. Also why is a Japanese wiki machine translated raw text being used as evidence in the first place?
Literally you're the one who mentioned types of Acausality like they had relevance to probability hax in the first place? This all literally makes no sense. The fact that he has his own possibilities on him simply just makes him easier to manipulate and do nothing tot raise is resistance nor is his defense anywhere on the level of Chimera who already exceeds infinite 100% success potency. Mathematics and Law hax just makes this a stomp.
Yea he's only an abstraction of things chimera casually controls, you're just posting fluff at this point to make it seem more impressive, he has no resistance. They get causally written or erased.
Anyways, if it wasn't obvious by now, my vote is for Chimera.
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Heavens_Feel
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My vote is also for Chimera, obviously.
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The 1,920x comes from a scaling chain, showing that character's are more powerful than each other, with values that were created through reasoning. So to just say that 1,920 x infinity doesn't exist, is exactly like saying the characters in TTGL don't get anymore powerful after Simon integrated the Multiverse. Significantly affecting a single 11 dimensional infinite universe is an infinite baseline, and significantly affecting an infinite collection of infinite universes or an infinite multiverse, would reasonably be infinity^2 times baseline. This is already accepted, as you've said, significantly affecting an entire multiverse is better than a single universe. But the third infinity comes from Spiral Power being stacked on top of Simon already having an infinite multiverse. The argument was never that there was more than one infinite multiverse. And to completely disregard Spiral Power as stacking another infinity on top, is exactly like saying that Simon without Spiral Power is as powerful as Simon with Spiral Power, which is absolutely not true at all. Then there's 1,920 x Infinity^3 via a scaling chain, because the characters do indeed get more powerful. So yeah, this has already been officially accepted
Of course, this has been shown in the blog that GreatIskandar sent like numerous times here. The entire Multiverse is multilayered with 11 dimensions as per Work Soul
Regardless Simon always has his cosmology around with him. Has the non-existent area ever made something of that structure just disappear?
So what I'm getting here is my explanation why Simon's probability is passive and potent enough to turn 0% into 100% just being put to the side? Because from what I've explained, they both have the same potency in terms of probability manipulation
On the Law Manipulation page, it says that type 5 acausals and possibly even type 4 acausals may be unaffected by an sort of law manipulation. So do the characters in question have the ability to affect type 4 acausals with just law manipulation?
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Yes, they were mentioned as membranes of the 10D and 11D universes (along with more context about 11D multiverse via interview and "multi-layered multiverse" via guidebooks). So yeah an infinite number of 11D universes through the branchement of the quantum cosmology.
If it's not the same thing, the Extradimensional Labyrinth doesn't work like that, it not only traps one mind into infinite branching paths but rather, it forces one mind to perceive infinite possibilities simultaneously, feeling of being an infinite number of people across on different universes, all at once.
I will say his abstraction would prevent that, his Abstract Existence was misunderstood being akin conciousness, mind or something alike which is not true by the way. Simon's Abstract Existence is an abstraction of Spiral Power, taking a shape of thought (or actually emotion, hope, willpower or anything alike) that encompasses his entire selves (and universes) throughout the multiverse, in all universes and all points of time, it can as well be combined with a spacetime like the Super Spiral Universe aka TTGL itself. Because Spiral Power is fundamental, it is a power source of evolution that makes up the reality as the underpinning of The Universe.
Thank you, glad we can have something to agreed on, if a Big Bang create a universe as whole then its inverse catastrophic event would be destroying it as whole by inflating it from a point and recollapse it, respectively. Or rather if you're insisting that said clashes only destroys matters despite so many implications it is more than that, then I don't know what exactly should I do... contextually speaking, they collapse everything into singularity then remade them in instant aka Big Crunch and Big Bang in-context, it affected the time and space (transcending time and space, there could be only one possible context unless if you can elaborate more possible scenarios) too + a Big Bang in TTGL create a timeline as whole -> everything becomes invisible when it happened, it doesn't require a bachelor's degree in order to understand this logic. And what's up with the black hole false equivalence? And why does a Japanese Wikipedia that is backed up with inner guidebooks becomes suddenly irrelevant here? Or were you complaining about my translation? Then why, didn't you just do it yourself when the link was already there?
This is just a damn bad strawmanning, never did I say that, I said Simon encompasses his very own possibilities and many other things as the reason why he has Type 2 acausality in the first place (not just Type 4), not that his types of acausality averts him from being manipulated from a probability hax. The fact that he has his own possibilites all encompassed by himself just simply prevents Chimera to manipulate them since there's no longer possibility left to be manipulated on the arena, on the reality.
Then please do elaborate a feat of her being able to manipulate a thought that resides deeper than time and space if his abstraction of things are them the Chimera could casually controls. That's kind of bold to say for a guy that knows nothing on the mechanism of the verse from the opponents.
As there still no good counter for Simon's Type 1 Abstract Existence then my vote remain unchanged.
Edit: typos
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Driller caveman fra
Rabbit2002
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