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It's because of the AP revisions. The AP increase is as insane as the verse going from 2-B to High 1-C. The TTGL verse should have the most powerful High 1-Cs in terms of raw AP
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It's time for... stomp Simon vs The High Priest
- Thread starter Lapsad
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ok, Simon fra
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It also really depends on the cosmology, because TTGL's Multiverse is an infinite multiverse
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Which is how it got to "infinitely above baseline" in the first place, right?
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Yes. Simon absorbed the Multiverse Labyrinth, and all its universes are infinite in size; which is basically Infinite Low 2-C, but High 1-C. And the multiverse is infinite; basically 2-A, but High 1-C. Also, cosmology really brings up the rating even further. For example: if someone has infinite power over a larger multiverse than someone who has infinite power over a smaller multiverse, the first character would be more powerful. Simon has infinite power over an infinite multiverse. Unless the To Aru's multiverse is infinite, really none of the characters stand a chance in terms of raw AP
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That's how Simon gets his "infinitely above High 1-C" rating, but it's a different case for the Magic Gods, who also have the same "infinitely above High 1-C" rating. The cosmology size mattered for Simon and other Gurren Lagann characters, but it doesn't mean that every other High 1-C on the site has to be subject to Gurren Lagann's cosmology. The point is that they're both "infinitely above High 1-C", and any kind of AP advantage that may exist at this level is virtually negligible because of how unquantifiable it is.
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A single tier from Tiers Low 1-C to High 1-B work like the entire Tier 2 system, the dimensions are just superior to 4D space, there's nothing else that's different, we can still use the size of the multiverse to determine which character scales above. The Multiverse's universes in TTGL are infinite in size, Simon absorbed that, meaning he's already infinitely above baseline within a single universe with that feat. The Multiverse is infinite, so he's infinite times above infinite baseline High 1-C. It's like Infinity x Infinity. In other verses, the the universe can be infinite, but the multiverse has a certain number of universes, say for example 2. A character can warp all of that, so that character would be 2 x infinite baseline
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Which is still "infinitely above baseline". If you really want to give Simon an AP advantage, you have to make him 1-B and above, as that's the only way you can go above "infinitely above baseline" in terms of AP.
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No, you can't reach the next tier with just multipliers, you can only go higher within your rating. Infinite times Infinite within High 1-C is still High 1-C, just insanely high into it. Also, saying it's still just infinitely above baseline is like saying, someone who's Infinite within Low 2-C is as powerful as a baseline 2-A, which it obviously does not work like that
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???
I thought we already settled this, 2-A is unquantifiably higher than infinite Low 2-C, same reason Low 2-C with infinite multiplier won't reach 2-A via our standards since the distance between multiverse is unquantifiable. Like Jesus Christ you don't need to become 5D in order to stomp an infinite 4D in AP, that's just the peak of dishonesty.
I thought we already settled this, 2-A is unquantifiably higher than infinite Low 2-C, same reason Low 2-C with infinite multiplier won't reach 2-A via our standards since the distance between multiverse is unquantifiable. Like Jesus Christ you don't need to become 5D in order to stomp an infinite 4D in AP, that's just the peak of dishonesty.
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Using your analogy of 2-Cs and 2-As though, the Magic Gods are not 2-C, hence why they're "infinitely above baseline" in the first place. If we go by treating them as tier 2 characters, they'd also be 2-A. Otherwise they wouldn't be "infinitely above baseline", and they'd just be baseline High 1-C. What we concluded from the discussion with Agnaa was that once you get into the "infinitely above baseline" territory, any AP difference, even if it exists, might as well be negligible because of how unquantifiable it is. He literally reiterated this point several times over.
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Damn it's still going
Following
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They can't be 2-A but High 1-C if the multiverse isn't infinite, that's literally what 2-A is; an infinite multiverse. They're just Infinite within 2-B, but High 1-C
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First of all, stop treating tier 1 and tier 2 works under different laws, they works the same, the only difference is just dimensional number variants. And secondly, how the hell infinite baseline Low 2-C/2-C/2-B get you into 2-A. The tiering system notes has strictly said that higher levels of tier 2 is unreachable with multiplier.
| Note 1: Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A. |
Agnaa said it's arguable, but he also said:
| Yeah, you could use that analogy to appeal to the site's guidelines. "We have proof that this character can destroy infinite 11-D universes, but this other character only has an infinite multiplier on destroying one 11-D universe, and we don't know if that'd let them destroy infinite 11-D universes, so the former should have higher AP." But I wouldn't put this as an objective slam dunk since there is room for doubt. |
I'm tired of these dishonesty, wanks, and lowballs from Toaru fans. Make a new CRT regarding infinite Low 2-C vs 2-A then we can get this damn done.
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If they were 2-B, then they wouldn't be "infinitely above baseline". They'd be something like 1001x and above High 1-C.
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You can get 2-B with infinite multiplier without getting into 2-A, that's literally is what our Tiering System works.
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This logic says "if a character who can destroy thousands of universes used a 2x power boost, they'd be able to destroy twice as many as they already can". It has literally been said that the distance between universes are unquantifiable, you can't use multipliers to increase the amount of universes they can destroy all at once
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100% agree with this
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Yeah, Simon is also infinitely above baseline, but he's infinitely above baseline within an infinite multiverse; infinite x infinite High 1-C
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Anyway, I suggest you to read this CRT.
Reaching 2-C with infinite multiplier was rejected, because like I said many, many times in the premise, the distance among universes is unquantifiable/unknown, the power difference between 2-C with infinite multiplier and 2-A are might be the same, might be negligible, might be infinite, might be uncountably infinite, we don't know.
It is possible, but it's too reaching, so for safety an infinite baseline 2-C won't getting ones into 2-A like the notes from the tiering system.
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I know. But it's still "infinitely above baseline". Infinity x infinity is still infinity.
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It's not just infinite*infinite, it's infinite universes with each of them are separated.
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I trust greatiskandar sense of judgement
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Except they are separated
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I get that. That's why he is "infinitely above baseline". What you're really arguing against is the magic gods being "infinitely above baseline", hence why you use the analogy of them being Low 2-C or 2-C, while Simon being 2-A.
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So how many 11D universes does To Aru's multiverse have?
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Because It's easier for us to understand what he meant
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I didn't, though? I always put him infinite baseline Low 2-C/2-B as an analogy.
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Are you referring to Simon or the High Priest?
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High Priest. I always refered Simon as 2-A, which actually is on higher degree of 2-A since he got some scalings and reactive evolution, even if you try to wank Low 2-C/2-B with infinite multiplier = 2-A, it won't save the High Priest from getting one shots.
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That's what I'm saying. Using your analogy, you refer to Simon as 2-A, and High Priest as Low 2-C. So what you're arguing against is the Magic Gods being "infinitely above baseline" High 1-C, which would also put them at 2-A by your analogy.
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Maybe stop accusing might help, I never argue against him being infinitely baseline High 1-C or I won't put that "infinite baseline" on the same sentence, infinite baseline Low 2-C/2-B and 2-A are just analogy to simplified their difference by disregarding their higher dimensional existences, to get better understanding. And no, there is no such thing "But it is tier 1, it's different!", it is the same, but higher dimensional.
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You can be infinitely above Low 2-C without being 2-A. Literally on the Tiering System page
Note 1: "Due to the fact that the distance between any given number of universes embedded in higher-dimensional / higher-order spaces is currently unknowable, it is impossible to quantify the numerical gap between each one of the subtiers in Tier 2. As such, it is not allowed to upgrade such a character based solely on multipliers. For example, someone twice as strong as a Low 2-C character would still be Low 2-C, and someone infinitely more powerful than a 2-C would not be 2-A."
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Dude, I get that. I'm not even arguing against that. You don't have to disagree or make a counter to literally everything I say
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"Using your analogy, you refer to Simon as 2-A, and High Priest as Low 2-C. So what you're arguing against is the Magic Gods being "infinitely above baseline" High 1-C, which would also put them at 2-A by your analogy." He's not referring to multipliers that put Simon at 2-A but 11D, he's using the size of the cosmology, which is an 11-D infinite multiverse
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I heard that there are Million/Billion of Phases with Infinite Possibilities each
Take these with a grain of salt tho
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We don't always equate infinite possibilities as infinite universes, or "possibility" as possible universe since it can just meant as an alternate future or chance (like Bleach or Maou Gakuin for instances), although maybe new CRT might help.
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I heard that there's a character in MGF that is 2-A right? (pretty sure the one who say that a certain character in MGF is 2-A is Yuu)
Anyway, there are billions of phases in Toaru and infinite possibilities does exist in the verse (Not a Toaru Supporter but i know a bit about there verse)
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