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Shouldn't Yumichika, Kira, and Ikkaku powerscale to Hisagi during Fake Karakura Town?

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FluffyCreatureZ said:
Aizen said they were gillians despite them being actually adjucas.
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That is actually very debatable, they used to be adjuchas in grimm flashback but after grimm ate a piece of them they seen to have downgraded somehow, like aizen (the guy who turned them in arrancars to begin with and the second smartes character in the series) said that they were gillians and later on uryu said they were in betwenn a gillian and a adjuchas supporting the idea that they downgraded and are weaker than you average adjuchs
 
I'd rather not derail the thread, but I do think Yumichika deserves better than to just fight Charlotte, it would be great to have seen him fight the Tres Bestias (maculine vs feminine beauty anyone) and we would be able to see the full extent of his powers against Ayon!

Could is shikai though work on Ayon?
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
I'd rather not derail the thread, but I do think Yumichika deserves better than to just fight Charlotte, it would be great to have seen him fight the Tres Bestias (maculine vs feminine beauty anyone) and we would be able to see the full extent of his powers against Ayon!

Could is shikai though work on Ayon?
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Nuh ayon claps the boy
 
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cJngYwPH...VI1Ts9Zp8YF-OxyG9bNhQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/019.jpg, in this scene aizen says that all of grimm fracction were only gillians

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RVBh6-00...ZswEozU-8Z9wGLJk0WPyACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/016.jpg, in this page toshiro says that shawlong was only a gillian, and that it took all of his strenght to defeat him meaning he should be comparable to 100% toshiro even

https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/242/bleach-1589645-b9337315a7db02ca42e4f80de9791174.jpg, on this image uryu claims that grimm fraction are a mix of ajuchas and gillian, impling that what really happened is that they used to be adjuchas back on grimm flashback but reverted to a gillian like power after grimm ate a part of them

https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/197/bleach-1589018-b555f012a59a80d0ef336b7cc63bd0d0.jpg, https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/197/bleach-1589020-bb60287560877e79cd1245a9e50d6ce0.jpg, https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/197/bleach-1589024-e2283d61612b24e2bcd2d1e409dd725d.jpg, on those three images toshiro claims several things

A: the first is that while gillians can be killed with easy by captains adjuchas are different implying them to be somewhat even in strenght, since toshiro is the one saying that is fair to assume that the adjuchas in question are being compared to his own strenght, which is consistent since he is the weakest captain, and the class of menos who come after adjuchas are the vasto lordes who are not equal to the captains but stronger

B:adjuchas are much stronger than gillians aka: much stronger than shawlong which toshiro claims to be gillian level

C: after becoming arrancar they get even stronger,which explains why a gillian like shawlong can fight evenly with toshiro, it also means that the adjuchas arrancar will be even above that version of toshiro as he considered their non-arrancar forms comparable to him

this is supported by the performance of the fraccion against the now trained and stronger captains in the FKT arc, because:

D: on chapter 330, 331 and 332 ggio vega one of baraggan's fraccion is show to be able to trade blows and survive attacks from soi fon even in his , base forcing her to use her shikai as well as knoking her in to a building and making her bleed, while soi fong was somewhat holding back he still made her bleed, survived an attack of a serious soi fong and only got killed by soi fong death manipulation shikai

E: another of barragan fraccion named findor claims that according to his analysis he is on the level of a captain, which should include arrancar arc toshiro at least , since that toshiro fought arrancars twice and is one of the weakest captains
 
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Theendzero13 said:
ggio vega one of baraggan's fraccion is show to be able to trade blows and survive attacks from soi fon even in his , base forcing her to use her shikai as well as knoking her in to a building and making her bleed, while soi fong was somewhat holding back he still made her bleed, survived an attack of a serious soi fong and only got killed by soi fong death manipulation shikai
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Not solid basing to scale Vega to Soi Fon's full power as she did fold him once going all out.

Theendzero13 said:
another of barragan fraccion named findor claims that according to his analysis he is on the level of a captain, which should include arrancar arc toshiro at least , since that toshiro fought arrancars twice and is one of the weakest captains
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Captain level varies so much in the story that it isn't a solid means to scale someone to a tier.

Theendzero13 said:
https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/197/bleach-1589018-b555f012a59a80d0ef336b7cc63bd0d0.jpg, https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/197/bleach-1589020-bb60287560877e79cd1245a9e50d6ce0.jpg, https://up.mangadudes.com/bleach/197/bleach-1589024-e2283d61612b24e2bcd2d1e409dd725d.jpg, on those three images toshiro claims several things

A: the first is that while gillians can be killed with easy by captains adjuchas are different implying them to be somewhat even in strenght, since toshiro is the one saying that is fair to assume that the adjuchas in question are being compared to his own strenght, which is consistent since he is the weakest captain, and the class of menos who come after adjuchas are the vasto lordes who are not equal to the captains but stronger

B:adjuchas are much stronger than gillians aka: much stronger than shawlong which toshiro claims to be gillian level

C: after becoming arrancar they get even stronger,which explains why a gillian like shawlong can fight evenly with toshiro, it also means that the adjuchas arrancar will be even above that version of toshiro as he considered their non-arrancar forms comparable to him
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I can buy the fraccion scaling relative to Grimmjow's fraccion.

Theendzero13 said:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RVBh6-00...ZswEozU-8Z9wGLJk0WPyACLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/016.jpg, in this page toshiro says that shawlong was only a gillian, and that it took all of his strenght to defeat him meaning he should be comparable to 100% toshiro even
Click to expand...
Naw, Shawlong will stay only scaling to 1/5 of Toshiro. All Grimm's fraccion were one shot when the limiters were released, we aren't scaling them to the FKT advance squads' full power. It's far more concrete and safer to scale Shawlong's Res to 20% Bankai Toshiro. Considering shortly after Bankai Toshiro can put up a good fight against Luppi who is an Espada at that point, it doesn't make sense for Shawlong to fully scale to Bankai Toshiro.

Theendzero13 said:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cJngYwPH...VI1Ts9Zp8YF-OxyG9bNhQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/019.jpg, in this scene aizen says that all of grimm fracction were only gillians
Click to expand...
Based on this and what you said above, I'd be fine scaling the Lieutenants that fought Baraggan's fraccion to Shawlong's level (20% Bankai Toshiro start of AA). The only one I'm vaguely unsure of is Yumichika cuz he only beat Res Charlotte thanks to his Shikai hax. So perhaps Yumichika stays the same, I'm lowkey a bit removed from reading the AA and FKT arcs. However, I can see FKT Bankai Ikkaku scaling (he got beat down without Bankai and it was all but directly stated he needed Bankai to win), FKT Kira outright scaling, FKT Yumichika getting a possibly at best, and FKT Hisagi scaling.
 
Actually based on how we scale Shawlong's base to 20% Toshiro, I'm fine with all these guys scaling to the "At least Mountain level/likely at least Mountain level (matched Baraggan's Fraccion who should be above Grimmjow's Fraccion)".
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Actually based on how we scale Shawlong's base to 20% Toshiro, I'm fine with all these guys scaling to the "At least Mountain level/likely at least Mountain level (matched Baraggan's Fraccion who should be above Grimmjow's Fraccion)".
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Mountain level likely mountain level? what?
 
I will let you guys finish talking about ganju before i try to explain better why i think the adjuchas fraccion should scale above BOS toshiro
 
Theendzero13 said:
I will let you guys finish talking about ganju before i try to explain better why i think the adjuchas fraccion should scale above BOS toshiro
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Scaling off concrete feats > scaling off interpretations that can vary

Go for it, but the fact that releasing the Gentei Kaijo enabled them to one shot their opponents is a steep hill to argue up. It is far more concrete to simply scale them to the 20% versions. "I needed my full power to beat them" does not mean that they scale to my full power, in fact it more likely means that my full power > them.

I don't think anyone has issues to Ganju being 7-C with explosives if they damaged a 7-C character. Would like scans tho to ensure Yumichika wasn't off guard or anything.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Scaling off concrete feats > scaling off interpretations that can vary

Go for it, but the fact that releasing the Gentei Kaijo enabled them to one shot their opponents is a steep hill to argue up. It is far more concrete to simply scale them to the 20% versions. "I needed my full power to beat them" does not mean that they scale to my full power, in fact it more likely means that my full power > them.

I don't think anyone has issues to Ganju being 7-C with explosives if they damaged a 7-C character. Would like scans tho to ensure Yumichika wasn't off guard or anything.
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Oh i will not try to scale toshiro to shawlong though as he is clearly above the guy

It will be about the other fraccion
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Leave that discussion later to the smart guy above. What I'm talking about right now is if we scale ikkaku to barragans fraciones he would scale to mountain level at 20% of base toshiro and 100% base toshiro with bankai correct?
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You know, since bankai is a 5x multiplier, would it mean that 20% Toshiro would've been 100% anyway in bankai?
 
Hagane_no_Saiyajin said:
You know, since bankai is a 5x multiplier, would it mean that 20% Toshiro would've been 100% anyway in bankai?
Click to expand...
Yes. That is true, sealed bankai toshiro is essentially the same as base toshiro unsealed. So the fraciones scaling above his sealed state would be equal to his 20% and ikkaku and the others would scale to that, ikkaku should be the only one who scales to 100% toshiro as he can use bankai, I think that's how it goes.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Y’all speaking awfully freely about Bankai multipliers 👀
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Vote Arc acting a lil sus
Yes. You heard me right.: squidgame


FluffyCreatureZ said:
What are you insinuating?
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given its potrayal in the manga not sure if bankai is a static 5x multiplier anymore, at best you could give it to the combat types like ichigo.
 
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