Shirou Emiya vs Wrath

[DontTalkDT]

Shirou Emiya vs Wrath


Unlimited Blade Works Shirou

Speed Equalized. Unlimited Blade Works is activated from the start. Shirou has his mana connection thingy to Rin. Wrath has the most mental control he can while Wrath is activated.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Bump

 

[Xmark12]

Shirou just whales on Wrath with his dual blades till he dies.

Better to just make Shirou instantly in UBW and speed equalized. Also let Shirou at least have good enough mana to sustain himself for the entire fight or something. He has crap mana.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Shirou just whales on Wrath with his dual blades till he dies.

Until Shirou dies or until Wrath dies?

Better to just make Shirou instantly in UBW and speed equalized. Also let Shirou at least have good enough mana to sustain himself for the entire fight or something. He has crap mana.

Hmmmmm.... Wrath is gonna be ultra reliant on Wrath then. Well, ok. I will edit the op.

 

[Xmark12]

Till Wrath dies, and also this is better.

 

[NoGround]

Till Wrath dies, and also this is better.

High-Speed HP Recovery has no resource requirement. It is infinite, passive healing that is always active, much like Wolverine. It is also much more powerful than Shirou's, due to being able to heal major wounds.

 

[Paul_Frank]

>starts in ubw

So Shirou traces Wrath's swords and gains them and wails on them till they die, while Ubw is able to launch Gae Bolg or other regen negating weapons

 

[NoGround]

Gae Bolg would be the deciding factor, due to the removal of regen, but that's it. All of Wrath's swords are disposable, since he is also using Weapon Creation to turn those swords into disposable, exploding missiles.

Wrath also has the ability to use a pocket dimension to and "Expel" ability to store and create a nigh-infinite number of exploding swords with different properties. Wrath is inspired in part by Gilgamesh (Fate Series) and Archer.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Wrath's swords being disposable doesn't really help

Ubw passively copies the weapons within it and sends copies to counter those weapons. Gae Bolg also isn't the only regen negating weapon. Also Low-Mid wouldn't really stop Shirou from just dicing him up or something like that.

 

[NoGround]

It hasn't been updated in a while, but Wrath canonically also has Heresy Nullification which is a soul manipulation nullification skill and Status Condition Nullification by this point. The page should be updated to reflect that. I am not sure if the weapons provided by UBW would bypass these nullification abilities.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Well not many ubw things rely on soul manip or status conditions so those wouldn't really help Wrath

 

[NoGround]

Yep, then Gael Bolg and other buff negation effects would be the deciding factor. Wrath would need to rely on a ranged battle and traps using his dimensional gate, but would be worn down due to removal of his regen if he gets hit. Speed equalized guarantees this would happen at some point or another, leading to a battle that will eventually lead to his defeat.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Does Wrath have any victory conditions in this situation?

 

[NoGround]

Shirou runs out of mana. TBH I'm unaware of the details of Rin's mana connection to Shirou, but Wrath was in constant battle for literally months when the skill Wrath was activated the first time.

 

[NoGround]

Update: Wrath has access to soul-rending techniques Heresy Attack and Heresy Magic, which damage the soul of a being, withering their abilities and skills permanently. It is not a condition that can be blocked. Heresy Attack can be applied to every single attack. Wrath also has "Grudge Curse," which I'm pretty sure is actually Gluttony, allowing him to absorb Shirou's life, mana, and energy directly through touch.

The only thing up for grabs at that point is how large is UBW Shirou (a Master)'s soul? Is his stamina greater than Wrath's? I'm inclined to say no, but use of Gael Bolg's Noble Phantasm would negate the battle completely. Can Shirou use the Noble Phantasm's of UBW weapons? Yes; they're ranked down, so they're not as effective as the originals.

I revise my earlier opinion, it's up to stamina of the two fighters, and the skill Wrath allows him to fight at maximum strength all the way to his dying breath.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Shirou can indeed use the abilities of noble phantasms within Ubw I'm pretty sure

At least the ones intrinsic to the properties of the weapon like regen neation and stuff for the Gae spears

 

[John985]

The resistance of Shirou for soul is base on Avenger. 5.6 Billion curses that can damage the mind and soul.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Unlimited Blade Works projections normally require far less mana, so I doubt that actually being likeley before Shirou pull a regen negating Noble Phantasm although I suppose the is a chance that he will run out of mana like he did agaisnt Gilgamesh due to the actual reality marble's mana consumption.

Wrath does severley out match Shirou when it comes to stamina tho.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Uuuuhhhh... that's a lot of abilities to look through in a profile. TIME TO START.

 

[NoGround]

Yeah I did a quick re-read and saw he could use Noble Phantasms of the copies, edited to reflect.

Then, conclusion: only win condition for Wrath is Shirou running out of mana, which has been negated by OP's edit. I'm sure he could make it if it was a reasonable condition.

 

[PhantomØ4]

What edit negates his victory condition? I do not see anything inhibiting from winning that way.

 

[NoGround]

Wrath does severley out match Shirou when it comes to stamina tho.

Hmm either Shirou's stamina needs to be toned down or Wrath's updated in this case. As I said, the skill Wrath can and will force Wrath to fight until his dying breath unless an outside force brings him to his senses. There are a few conditions for this, but in any case, Pain Nullification also makes it so he literally cannot feel pain.

I'm inclined to update Wrath a bit, but shall do so another time.

 

[NoGround]

What edit negates his victory condition? I do not see anything inhibiting from winning that way.

I must be misunderstanding Rin and Shirou's mana connection. It has been years since I watched UBW.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Okay, just to correct somethings.

Unless you could show what that status effect thing has resisted, Archer should punch through with Gae Bolg and similar abilities. Gae Bolg works through a curse and some of the other healing negating weapons apply that effect conceptually. More over, Anti-heroes like Archer are more resistant to other curse-like effects, like Angra Mainyu's curses, but they still get affected the same by Gae Bolg's anti-healing shenanigans.

If he sees Suzaku and Seiryuu as well, he's gonna be getting access to that automatic Mana and HP regen, the mana certainly helping him a lot keeping UBW up. The only thing that really costs Shirou a lot of mana is when his weapons get destroyed, which happens A LOT versus Gilgamesh, plus using Rho Aias which also drains a lot of mana, yet UBW remained around a pretty long time, which will get boosted if he does use those two.

Shirou obviously can use the weapons as NP too. He used Excalibur at the end of Heaven's Feel and Nine Lives just by replicating Berserk's sword and his experience by consequence, also using Caliburn alongside Saber in Fate Route.

 

[NoGround]

You, ummmm missed a lot of conversation that happened after that post User:LSirLancelotDuLacl.

Gae Bolg was a deciding factor... if Shirou can find it. Wrath's extreme stamina and inability to feel pain pushes his overall ability to fight way beyond Shirou's ability to hold a reality marble (days, weeks, months).

It boils down to: can Shirou find a weapon to negate Wrath's healing, and then work his way through Wrath's ridiculously high health before he runs out of mana. I'm inclined to say "no," because in addition to equalized speed Wrath has Dimensional Maneuvering and Spatial Magic allowing him to teleport at will.

I updated Wrath's page with his resistance skills from Wrath's page on the Kumo Desu wiki, which has been updated based on latest canonical information from the WN (you're talking to the Kumo Expert here, though not in Fate). Either way, if it's a game of Stamina, Wrath 100% wins hands down. If Shirou can land a one-shot kill with Gae Bolg, Shirou wins.

 

[John985]

You need a CRT to make a change in the profile.

And Shirou dont need to find the weapon, if he wants something, it always go to his hands.

 

[PhantomØ4]

Shirou could very well still win via weapon spam, while Low Mid Regenerationn it won't do much if Shirou manages to decapitate him or something along those lines that is beyond Low Mid. Sure, it might prove difficult for Shirou to achieve but it is still within the realm of possibility.

Who has the AP/Durability advantage here anyways?

 

[NoGround]

You need a CRT to make a change in the profile.

And Shirou dont need to find the weapon, if he wants something, it always go to his hands.

I'm a Wiki Manager, and I didn't see the protection log on the character. Edits reverted, and will find proper channels.

In the case of Gae Bolg, then, Shirou would actually need to hit a teleporting target.

 

[NoGround]

Shirou could very well still win via weapon spam, while Low Mid Regenerationn it won't do much if Shirou manages to decapitate him or something along those lines that is beyond Low Mid. Sure, it might prove difficult for Shirou to achieve but it is still within the realm of possibility.

Who has the AP/Durability advantage here anyways?

Not shown on Wrath's page, but he is completely immune to slashing attacks, and has high-resistance to Impact and Piercing physical damage. See Wrath's page on Kumo Wiki for detailed resistances breakdown. I'm gonna find a CRT later and get him updated.

Wrath wins on the durability department, not to mention even if he does get damaged he can't even feel it.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

-SNIP-

Do you... actually know anything about Shirou? He doesn't need to find anything, he can bring Gae Bolg or trace it directly into his hand while he is in UBW, what makes you think he needs to find anything?

Inability to feel pain doesn't make your body your arm swing better if the tendons are cut, or move just as fast if your legs are ****** up. Not to mention Gae Bolg twists causality to make the hit always land if the target is within range. It doesn't seem like I missed anything important in the discussion.

 

[NoGround]

I must be misunderstanding Rin and Shirou's mana connection. It has been years since I watched UBW.

Don't blame me for forgetting the minor details. I'm not a huge fan of Fate, but have watched it. And refresh the damn page before replying. You're late to pretty much every reply in the thread.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Calm with your damns, you are not my dad. I am addressing what I am addressing, is not my problem if it was already answered.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

By the way, we don't threat immunities as actual immunities here, we mostly go by the max they are shown. So since Shirou has the AP advantage, any slashing isn't gonna be as powerful but he should be able to damage him.

Granted, if it's reduced to merely deciding Gae Bolg is his best bet, it doesn't matter much.

 

[NoGround]

...Anyway back on topic, Wrath can teleport out of Gael Bolg's range using Dimensional Maneuvering or leave via his own pocket dimension using Spatial Magic. I'm pretty sure Reality Marble would override, that, but am not 100% sure.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He's gonna teleport out of causality manipulation that makes it so that his heart has been pierced even before the attack started?

Not sure how that'd work out, but I don't think it will.

 

[NoGround]

Had to look up Causality Manipulation, but that determined that you are correct.

Well, Gael Bolg, even the weakened version, like the very beginning, is the deciding factor. Shirou's AP goes way beyond any of Wrath's durability in this case.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Still, UBW ending doesn't hurt his chances of winning, or Wrath escaping, as he can just trace Gae Bolg directly to his hand.

 

[NoGround]

Yeah, wasn't arguing against that point. I had forgotten the details of this skill from my own personal viewing of the show as well as was going off of a misread from an earlier post.

Only win condition for Wrath is Shirou running out of Mana.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I mean

He can keep fighting and draining away his mana and energy and stuff like that through some of his special skills, which Shirou really doesn't have an answer to. Is a question of whether he manages that first or Shirou decides to use something like Gae Bolg.

The main issue is how Shirou tends to prefer KnB.

 

[NoGround]

Very true. Wrath is basically an animal when the skill is activated, so he would be using whatever he could to win.

In regards to KnB and Wrath's Cutting Immunity skill, the immunity itself is the maximum value generated by the System in Kumo Desu, which is general on par with Mountain Tier ap. The blades wouldn't do enough damage before being negated by Wrath's natural healing.

In that case, Shirou would probably be forced away from blades early, which might lead him to Gael Bolg. It is certainly a higher probability.