Izuku Midoriya vs Shirou Emiya: Battle for Humanity's Greatest Hero.

[Expectro2000xxx]

Was asked to comment here.

First of all, yes, Shirou scale to 962 Gigatons due to all servants scaling in one or other way to Gawain who is 3x weaker than A+ NP.

Second, while is good and all that Deku don't care if his arms break in this case they wouldn't simply break, they would end cut because his opponent use sharp weapons, so on top of the higher AP of the swords they also possess their great sharpnes, that's something everyone shouldn't forget. Also, in the case of UBW he would need to also face a big danmaku of such sharp and stronger weapons so take that also in mind.

Third, as the profile state Shirou subconsciously use UBW inside his body to project weapons that protect him, which at practical effects makes his normal durability around 962 Gigatons.

Fourth, Shirou have his regeneration, a regeneration that quickly heal lethal wounds, so he can actually last quite a bit. If the argument is that with Gearshift Deku just blitz Shirou then he would need to destroy his head before Gearshift time limit so he can't regenerate anymore, and that's something I honestly haven't see Deku do to a person but could be wrong (in which case please send a scan).

Also, here is a essay of Shirou combat prowess that someone else wrote in other thread. I'm posting it mainly due to the sensory feats it mention like Shirou sensing an Archer in Spirit Form, sense the imminent danger from someone attacking in other room, felt something that Archer and Saber couldn't (of note is how Rin state they can't ignore his detection ability), feel where Rin is, and such things since it was mentioned smokescreen being effective against him, also because the post mention some good things here and there so it could be useful.


And now I disappear to not further participate in this, hasta la vista baby.

 

[TheRustyOne]

And now I disappear to not further participate in this, hasta la vista baby.

This makes this post a waste of time since the majority of this stuff was already discussed.

Most of that has been elaborated on already. I find this behavior to be disrespectful to every party involved.

Edit: I believe this match up should be closed though, would that be alright if I asked for it?

Unless someone can explain to me how this fight can be fair in either direction?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

This makes this post a waste of time since the majority of this stuff was already discussed.

Most of that has been elaborated on already. I find this behavior to be disrespectful to every party involved.

Edit: I believe this match up should be closed though, would that be alright if I asked for it?

Unless someone can explain to me how this fight can be fair in either direction?

There were doubts about if Shirou was 962 Gigatons, which I clarified due to be asked as one of the fate supports that tend to be at the day with the revisions and that participate semi regularly in vs threads, the only thing I didn't do was also add the link of the crt that upgraded him just because I was in phone, but anyways here is.

The part about the swords cutting up Deku arms wasn't mentioned and instead was just simply said that he can fight with broken arms, which is very distinct to fight with his arma cut off.

The subconscious projection was mentioned indeed, but I wanted to clarificate how at practical effects that make his durability is combat to be 962 Gigatons.

The regeneration argument wasn't mentioned at all despite how important is that he can regen lethal wounds and how Deku would need to detroy his head before his speed amp limit to stop him, which I something very important because as far I know that is something out of character for Deku to do against a another human from what I know of him.

Neither were brought before that he possess senses that let him counter smokescreen (a preocupation another used mentioned he had various time in the thread), nor the instinctive reaction feats mentioned in the post I linked or various of his combat feats.

So yeah, most of the things I mentioned in my post weren't daid before, so I don't consider at all that is a very disrespectful behaviour to point things no one brought before due to someone else going to my wall asking for my input in a thread that I didn't plan to participate before, but whatever, don't ping me or reply to my post anymore, I don't care for who win or if I'm apparently disrespectful, unless I get reported I don't want to know more of this thread.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I didn't see any real doubts about Shirou's 900+ GT rating, so that's incorrect.

I mentioned multiple times that Shirou can slice his limbs off, no one was disagreeing with that. You seem to be ignoring how this fight starts from 4 km away.

The subconscious projection was completely counter, as Izuku would one shot him even worse than Rider did. As Izuku is incapable of landing a blow on Shirou without his blitzing Gearshift, which would let him run up to Shirou as if he's frozen in time. Before he can even perceive that Izuku moved, he'd have a hole in his stomach.

Edit: Izuku is unaware that Shirou will be so weak in durability, his one shot will be accidental.

Shirou cannot regeneration in this fight, he needs Saber to regenerate and she is not here. "Avalon is unusable without his connection to Saber, and the effectiveness is decreased if Saber is not nearby."

The smokescreen senses were a good addition.

However that is irrelevant to what I said about you. "And now I disappear to not further participate in this, hasta la vista baby."

This told me you lacked the will or desire to have any discussion, despite making such a large post. That behavior is not report worthy at all, which is why I said I found that behavior to be disrespectful. I'm not going to say anything more beyond I'm sorry if I offended you. I do not wish to spread any bad blood between any users.

Your response here does show you aren't what I was assuming, so I do take back my words from before.

 

[Mickey1940]

Was asked to comment here.

First of all, yes, Shirou scale to 962 Gigatons due to all servants scaling in one or other way to Gawain who is 3x weaker than A+ NP.

Second, while is good and all that Deku don't care if his arms break in this case they wouldn't simply break, they would end cut because his opponent use sharp weapons, so on top of the higher AP of the swords they also possess their great sharpnes, that's something everyone shouldn't forget. Also, in the case of UBW he would need to also face a big danmaku of such sharp and stronger weapons so take that also in mind.

Third, as the profile state Shirou subconsciously use UBW inside his body to project weapons that protect him, which at practical effects makes his normal durability around 962 Gigatons.

Fourth, Shirou have his regeneration, a regeneration that quickly heal lethal wounds, so he can actually last quite a bit. If the argument is that with Gearshift Deku just blitz Shirou then he would need to destroy his head before Gearshift time limit so he can't regenerate anymore, and that's something I honestly haven't see Deku do to a person but could be wrong (in which case please send a scan).

Also, here is a essay of Shirou combat prowess that someone else wrote in other thread. I'm posting it mainly due to the sensory feats it mention like Shirou sensing an Archer in Spirit Form, sense the imminent danger from someone attacking in other room, felt something that Archer and Saber couldn't (of note is how Rin state they can't ignore his detection ability), feel where Rin is, and such things since it was mentioned smokescreen being effective against him, also because the post mention some good things here and there so it could be useful.


And now I disappear to not further participate in this, hasta la vista baby.

1. Thanks for the clarification
2. Deku can speed blitz via Gearshift + Fa Jin and Danger Sense warns him of the potential dangers of his swords so he can dodge everything
3. Deku can get to up to 682 gigatons with Fa Jin, and quintuple his AP with Quintuple Detroit Smash which is riskless and spammable. Despite Shirou's durability, he can't really afford to get hit from many of those
4. UBW Shirou doesn't have full access to Avalon due to not being connected with Saber, so his regeneration might be hampered
5. Shirou doesn't have enough time to adapt to Deku before he gets blitzed and finished off. Shirou's skill feats showcase him being ablet o match Saber after an hour of getting beat up, which Deku will never allow him to do. Not to mention even if he does, Deku's Danger Sense just lets him avoid most of his adaptations anyways
His sensory feats are valid, tho, so Smokescreen won't work
As for his other feats, those really don't matter when someone can use their speed to blitz people to such an extent that they can't perceive them. He blitzed AFO Shiggy, who is comparable to Deku normally, with Gearshift, and that can go up even more with Fa Jin

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ain’t speed amps restricted in matchups against someone who is faster in speed unequal? Deku won’t be able to just blitz here.

 

[Mickey1940]

Ain’t speed amps restricted in matchups against someone who is faster in speed unequal? Deku won’t be able to just blitz here.

wdym?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Ain’t speed amps restricted in matchups against someone who is faster in speed unequal? Deku won’t be able to just blitz here.

I dont think so unless it's new

 

[HammerStrikes219]

From the Versus Thread rules

The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

• Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I dont think so unless it's new

It used to till that shit got revised years ago.

I remember a few threads discussing speed amps in speed equalization matchs too if I not mistaken

 

[Mickey1940]

In that case then Gearshift is still perfectly capable of blitzing Shirou to hell and back

 

[Vietthai96]

Deku can't break Rho Aias, it is a conceptual shield, AP alone can't break it. Lancer can break it because his spear throw is also a conceptual attack, which iirc possess the concept of always piercing the opponent

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Deku can't break Rho Aias, it is a conceptual shield, AP alone can't break it. Lancer can break it because his spear throw is also a conceptual attack, which iirc possess the concept of always piercing the opponent

Yes and No

Rho Ais is specifically meant to counter thrown weapons especially well, being an absolute defense against them; its durability itself is described as each layer being as strong as a fortress wall, meaning Shirou should more or less have four fortress walls worth of Durability in that shield without using Unlimited Bladeworks

Also, as for Cú's noble phantasm, it works via Causality primarily

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Deku can’t break Rho Ais regardless, it’s a Low 6-B shield he can’t do anything to it.

Except. Y’know. Go around it.

Also, I have to ask: how exactly does Shirou’s High 6-C durability work? I know he can subconsciously create swords to get that level of durability, but he typically seems to just get one shot by Servants. So if Deku blitzes him so bad he can’t even perceive that he’s going to get hit, idk if his body would manage to do that in time or nah.

That’s basically the only question I have. Other than that the fights pretty simple: they scrap, Deku avoids all of Shirou’s hits but can’t do much damage, especially when Shirou projects the skills of the Servants. Eventually Deku either activates Gearshift and one shot blitzed Shirou, or Shirou activates UBW and STILL gets one shot blitzed.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Deku can’t break Rho Ais regardless, it’s a Low 6-B shield he can’t do anything to it.

Except. Y’know. Go around it.

Also, I have to ask: how exactly does Shirou’s High 6-C durability work? I know he can subconsciously create swords to get that level of durability, but he typically seems to just get one shot by Servants. So if Deku blitzes him so bad he can’t even perceive that he’s going to get hit, idk if his body would manage to do that in time or nah.

That’s basically the only question I have. Other than that the fights pretty simple: they scrap, Deku avoids all of Shirou’s hits but can’t do much damage, especially when Shirou projects the skills of the Servants. Eventually Deku either activates Gearshift and one shot blitzed Shirou, or Shirou activates UBW and STILL gets one shot blitzed.

Imma go ahead and say that if Shirou does get off UBW it's over, since weapons projected by UBW allow him to "their entire histories, compositions, and designs are all perfectly recorded, allowing for instant proficiency with the weapons by inheriting all combat skills and techniques utilized by their original owners.", let alone access to endless spamming of noble phantasms, which all it would take is him to use something like Gae Bolg to end Deku

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Imma go ahead and say that if Shirou does get off UBW it's over, since weapons projected by UBW allow him to "their entire histories, compositions, and designs are all perfectly recorded, allowing for instant proficiency with the weapons by inheriting all combat skills and techniques utilized by their original owners.", let alone access to endless spamming of noble phantasms, which all it would take is him to use something like Gae Bolg to end Deku

The second they get into UBW, before Shirou even projects something like that, Deku makes one hand motion and murderblitzes Shirou. Like before he could do anything, Deku would activate Gearshift and Shirou just kinda dies before he even knows what’s happening.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Looking through UBW to see if any of the phantasms other than Gae Bolg would bypass speed, also checking with a fate friend far more knowledgeable than me to see if Shirou could just project Gae Bolg outside of UBW

Edit: Okay yeah there is literally nothing stopping Shirou from Projecting Gae Bolg outside of UBW other than maybe in character reasons, and just casuality skewering Deku

 

[Kingofwolves999]

I mean yeah, he could. The issue is just would he do that to someone that, as far as he knows, isn’t really as strong as his own projections. Deku is tricky but until he uses Gearshift Shirou can handle him pretty well, just hard to land hits through his Analytical Prediction and precog.

Meanwhile Deku would be far more quick to use Gearshift than Shirou would be to use Gae Bolg, especially given the power difference.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Anyways Voting Shirou, literally nothing is stopping him from using Trace Projections to call a noble phantasm to his side, he doesn't even need UBW to do this, especially with SBA starting distance giving him enough time, Deku's gonna get MASSIVE danger sense going anywhere near him, but probably wont go straight into gearshift, as it's a last resort move. Shirou then AP slams with one attack and sheer skill negging. This is also home territory for him, meaning he's probably going to try and end this ASAP so no one can get caught in the crossfire (He would probably do this regardless since Hero).

Any of the NP's will do that he has, but Gae Bolg would literally end the fight before it even properly starts by bending casuality to automatically hit and pierce Deku's heart

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I mean yeah, he could. The issue is just would he do that to someone that, as far as he knows, isn’t really as strong as his own projections. Deku is tricky but until he uses Gearshift Shirou can handle him pretty well, just hard to land hits through his Analytical Prediction and precog.

Meanwhile Deku would be far more quick to use Gearshift than Shirou would be to use Gae Bolg, especially given the power difference.

Gae Bolg isnt a last resort for Shirou, UBW is, the main argument against him going straight to it falls into "Would this be the exact one Shirou summons" or would it be another noble phantasm

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Honestly if Shirou traces Gae Bolg, Deku could activate Gearshift in response too. Like, the answer to anything particularly deadly Shirou pulls out is “Gearshift.”

I’m not saying the likelihood of “Shirou pulls out Gae Bolg and instantly kills Deku” isn’t there, but in character I’m not seeing much reason. At a distance of 4km he’d be more likely to either snipe or get closer to use Emiya’s weapons. I just don’t really see a scenario where Shirou manages to get off a win con before Deku activates Gearshift.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Honestly if Shirou traces Gae Bolg, Deku could activate Gearshift in response too. Like, the answer to anything particularly deadly Shirou pulls out is “Gearshift.”

I’m not saying the likelihood of “Shirou pulls out Gae Bolg and instantly kills Deku” isn’t there, but in character I’m not seeing much reason. At a distance of 4km he’d be more likely to either snipe or get closer to use Emiya’s weapons. I just don’t really see a scenario where Shirou manages to get off a win con before Deku activates Gearshift.

Also, what is stopping Deku from using LITERALLY anything other than Gearshift as a response?

Literally if he does anything BUT go straight into gearshift he's getting AP slammed in 3.5 seconds

 

[Fezzih_007]

Pretty sure Shirou can't use the Gae Bolg that breaks casuality to hit the target heart.
He can use the AoE version trought.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Pretty sure Shirou can't use the Gae Bolg that breaks casuality to hit the target heart.
He can use the AoE version trought.

Both versions do that


Edit: Actually the thrown version autolocks onto the heart, but I dont see the wiki mentioning exactly doing the Conceptual thing

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Also he is capable of using both as he isn't copying the attack, he's copying the spear directly, which then conveys what he can do albiet weaker by a full rank



Thrown version for ***** and giggles:

It does posses the abiility to always strike at the heart like the Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death technique, but both the power and the area of effect are increased. Rather than dispatching a single foe with absolute accuracy, its focus as a technique is to attack the enemies together with the surrounding area in a carpet bombing fashion to cause massive destruction. Due to being hurled with all of Cú Chulainn's energy, it cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances. Even resilient bulwark or an agile body are not immune to its power, so Gáe Bolg will send the enemy horde flying. If it were to also have the ability to directly strike the heart, it would be closer to the level of Lugh's power as a higher level version of Fragarach.[2] EMIYA was the only one known to have blocked the technique through the use of Rho Aias after the spear pierces through the first six layers, which Cú Chulainn thought to be impossible.


Gae Bolg


All this aside, its far more likely he projects his smaller swords, projecting a spear isn't likely for him as it's more difficult to do than a sword, but it IS on the table, and is a solid counter to Gearshift because if he can activate it, it doesn't matter if Deku is faster.


Also you guys seem to be forgetting that Shirou statistics increase to a level near the user of what he projects, albiet a full rank down (Roughly ten times less by how the ranking system works iirc)

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also, what is stopping Deku from using LITERALLY anything other than Gearshift as a response?

Literally if he does anything BUT go straight into gearshift he's getting AP slammed in 3.5 seconds

Danger Sense. Deku can pretty easily analyze that Shirou is stronger than his archenemy, Shigaraki, and will simply use Gearshift to end the fight as fast as possible.

Deku doesn’t test things out on opponents unless the things he’s testing are designed to immediately end the fight. Gearshift is a “last resort” only in the sense that it puts a time limit on him. He has no qualms whatsoever with literally STARTING a fight with Gearshift, and unlike Shigaraki, Deku has no idea who Shirou is. If some random person is attacking him by spawning weapons stronger than his attacks, he’s going to go all out immediately and Overdrive Shirou to death.

Not to mention; the starting distance is 4km. Deku clears that distance near instantly, and gets in melee range with Shirou. He will swiftly back out when he sees that Shirou gets more skilled with his projections, and won’t get hit since Danger Sense precog, unless Shirou manages to project something that specifically counters Deku’s entire kit, which he has no guarantee whatsoever of doing. The second Deku realizes the danger, he activates Gearshift to put Shirou down fast and one taps him.

Also he is capable of using both as he isn't copying the attack, he's copying the spear directly, which then conveys what he can do albiet weaker by a full rank



Thrown version for ***** and giggles:

It does posses the abiility to always strike at the heart like the Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death technique, but both the power and the area of effect are increased. Rather than dispatching a single foe with absolute accuracy, its focus as a technique is to attack the enemies together with the surrounding area in a carpet bombing fashion to cause massive destruction. Due to being hurled with all of Cú Chulainn's energy, it cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances. Even resilient bulwark or an agile body are not immune to its power, so Gáe Bolg will send the enemy horde flying. If it were to also have the ability to directly strike the heart, it would be closer to the level of Lugh's power as a higher level version of Fragarach.[2] EMIYA was the only one known to have blocked the technique through the use of Rho Aias after the spear pierces through the first six layers, which Cú Chulainn thought to be impossible.


Gae Bolg


All this aside, its far more likely he projects his smaller swords, projecting a spear isn't likely for him as it's more difficult to do than a sword, but it IS on the table, and is a solid counter to Gearshift because if he can activate it, it doesn't matter if Deku is faster.


Also you guys seem to be forgetting that Shirou statistics increase to a level near the user of what he projects, albiet a full rank down (Roughly ten times less by how the ranking system works iirc)

So he’s creating a weaker, and therefore slower Gae Bolg? What’s stopping Deku from blitzing Shirou the second he tries that attack? Also the Soaring Spear attack is homing, so he could just outrun it since he perception blitzes and kill Shirou. Yes it will still come for him, but it’s called undodgeable because it homes in no matter what, not cause it’s so fast it blitzes you before you run.

And while we’re on the subject: why would Shirou create Gae Bolg specifically? His entire thing is swords, as you acknowledge. Hell, agaisnt Gilgamesh, he didn’t project anything BUT swords to my recollection. Why would he pull out Gae Bolg, something that is difficult for him to create in the first place since it isn’t a sword, against someone that is inferior to him in combat skills? Sure Shirou has paper durability but there’s nothing overt about Deku that would lead him to pulling out something as drastic as Gae Bolg for no reason. It’s far more likely he just projects swords or uses UBW for more swords. The only times I can think of when he’s pull out other servants noble phantasms would be if he’s heavily struggling which Deku is literally incapable of doing to him without Fa Jin or Gearshift.

Also Shirou gaining a Servants stats is LITERALLY the one thing we’re constantly referencing with his projections, it’s why he’s fighting Deku in the first place. We know he gets stronger, that’s the strength that lets him nearly one shot his opponent, the issue is just managing to do that before he gets splattered from a blitz he has no knowledge of against someone that’s fighting him defensively. Also I don’t think it’s 10x less cause we ignore servant statistics. Otherwise Shirou would only be Island level+

The only offense Deku can use against Shirou other than Gearshift + Fa Jin would be Blackwhip, which gets dodged as long as Shirou is projecting something that gives him the skill to do so. Other than that, Deku could MAYBE use an AoE air pressure, but he avoids property damage when fighting. The only thing left for him, against a highly skilled and powerful enemy, would be Gearshift. His entire goal when fighting is “end the fight as fast as possible.” If Shirou does not one shot kill Deku in a short time frame, or at least before Deku realizes how much of a threat he is, then Gearshift is getting activated.

Neither of them knows how big of a threat the other is, but Deku not only is smarter, but he’s the one on the back foot from the first interaction. He has far more reason to pull out his big guns than Shirou does.

Also, here is an essay of Shirou combat prowess that someone else wrote in other thread. I'm posting it mainly due to the sensory feats it mention like Shirou sensing an Archer in Spirit Form, sense the imminent danger from someone attacking in other room, felt something that Archer and Saber couldn't (of note is how Rin state they can't ignore his detection ability), feel where Rin is, and such things since it was mentioned smokescreen being effective against him, also because the post mention some good things here and there so it could be useful.

Also I checked this and none of it really means he could accurately hit Deku within smokescreen. He has a sixth sense for danger/abnormalities but that doesn’t mean he can fight while blind at his usual level. This seems more like him sensing someone’s presence in a vague area rather than being able to completely handle a handicap.

 

[Mickey1940]

Yes and No

Rho Ais is specifically meant to counter thrown weapons especially well, being an absolute defense against them; its durability itself is described as each layer being as strong as a fortress wall, meaning Shirou should more or less have four fortress walls worth of Durability in that shield without using Unlimited Bladeworks

Also, as for Cú's noble phantasm, it works via Causality primarily

All of this has been addressed.

Rho Ais isn't an omnidirectional shield, so due to Danger Sense and Fa Jin he can go around it and there's nothing Shirou can do in response to his speed

 

[Mickey1940]

Imma go ahead and say that if Shirou does get off UBW it's over, since weapons projected by UBW allow him to "their entire histories, compositions, and designs are all perfectly recorded, allowing for instant proficiency with the weapons by inheriting all combat skills and techniques utilized by their original owners.", let alone access to endless spamming of noble phantasms, which all it would take is him to use something like Gae Bolg to end Deku

This is true but doesn't apply to Shirou in this fight specifically

UBW isn't like Gil's Gate of Babylon. UBW works by copying the appearance of weapons he sees/senses, and then creating it within UBW so he can use it.

Unless he fought Gilgamesh before fighting Deku, he's not gonna have access to every Noble Phantasm out there. Most of his weapons will be normal swords which, albeit dangerous, is not nearly as bad as Gae Bolg, and although he does indeed have a few NPs in there like Caldabog, it's still not enough to stop Deku from just dodging everything with Gearshift + Danger Sense. At best Shirou can trace Deku's Mid Gauntlets and Iron Soles but that doesn't help him

 

[Mickey1940]

Both versions do that


Edit: Actually the thrown version autolocks onto the heart, but I dont see the wiki mentioning exactly doing the Conceptual thing

The thrown version is explicitly stated to NOT target someone's heart by ignoring causality. It's exclusively a big unga bunga attack. Technically it can't be blocked or dodged normally due to its homing nature, Deku's Danger Sense + Gearshift allows him to just statue the spear and kill Shirou before he gets hit

 

[Mickey1940]

Also I checked this and none of it really means he could accurately hit Deku within smokescreen. He has a sixth sense for danger/abnormalities but that doesn’t mean he can fight while blind at his usual level. This seems more like him sensing someone’s presence in a vague area rather than being able to completely handle a handicap.

I disagree with this

Sensing a servant's location while they're in spirit form means you're using Magic sense to sense a completely invisible and incorporeal spirit. It doesn't really matter if he's blinded, due to verse equalization he should be able to sense Deku no problem

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

This is true but doesn't apply to Shirou in this fight specifically

UBW isn't like Gil's Gate of Babylon. UBW works by copying the appearance of weapons he sees/senses, and then creating it within UBW so he can use it.

Unless he fought Gilgamesh before fighting Deku, he's not gonna have access to every Noble Phantasm out there. Most of his weapons will be normal swords which, albeit dangerous, is not nearly as bad as Gae Bolg, and although he does indeed have a few NPs in there like Caldabog, it's still not enough to stop Deku from just dodging everything with Gearshift + Danger Sense. At best Shirou can trace Deku's Mid Gauntlets and Iron Soles but that doesn't help him

I was assuming end of UBW shirou

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

The thrown version is explicitly stated to NOT target someone's heart by ignoring causality. It's exclusively a big unga bunga attack. Technically it can't be blocked or dodged normally due to its homing nature, Deku's Danger Sense + Gearshift allows him to just statue the spear and kill Shirou before he gets hit

gotchu, mind sliding me that statement? Eitherway regardless since he can project the spear itself, he just has to use the first ability

 

[Fezzih_007]

Can you stop multiposting please?

I disagree with this

Sensing a servant's location while they're in spirit form means you're using Magic sense to sense a completely invisible and incorporeal spirit. It doesn't really matter if he's blinded, due to verse equalization he should be able to sense Deku no problem

 

[Mickey1940]

I was assuming end of UBW shirou

That's fair, but even if that were to be used, Deku's Danger Sense tells him which swords have 1 shot curse potential and which ones don't, and he can still dodge everything with Gearshift

 

[Mickey1940]

gotchu, mind sliding me that statement? Eitherway regardless since he can project the spear itself, he just has to use the first ability

sure

Taken from Lancer's Profile:

• Gáe Bolg: Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death: The true use of Gáe Bolg, and Lancer's strongest attack that utilizes the full potential of Gáe Bolg's Curse as well as another of his Noble Phantasms. When utilized, it converts all of Lancer's magical energy into raw power. When thrown, it distorts space to split into over thirty separate spearheads to wipe out enemies like carpet bombing. Unlike the Barbed Spear, it does not have the property of reversing cause and effect to always pierce the heart, but its power and range are instead greatly increased, and it cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances, requiring the use of a shield specialized in protecting against thrown spears to hold it back. Even if it is somehow avoided, it will still strike its opponent, homing in on them.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Agreeing that if he uses Gearshift it's immediately over, unless Shirou projects something an especially fast servant's weapon

sure

Taken from Lancer's Profile:

• Gáe Bolg: Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death: The true use of Gáe Bolg, and Lancer's strongest attack that utilizes the full potential of Gáe Bolg's Curse as well as another of his Noble Phantasms. When utilized, it converts all of Lancer's magical energy into raw power. When thrown, it distorts space to split into over thirty separate spearheads to wipe out enemies like carpet bombing. Unlike the Barbed Spear, it does not have the property of reversing cause and effect to always pierce the heart, but its power and range are instead greatly increased, and it cannot be dodged or blocked under normal circumstances, requiring the use of a shield specialized in protecting against thrown spears to hold it back. Even if it is somehow avoided, it will still strike its opponent, homing in on them.

This doesn't explicitly say it loses the conceptual/casuality aspect but **** it, I'll run with it, still regardless as Shirou isnt limited to throwing

 

[Fezzih_007]

This is true but doesn't apply to Shirou in this fight specifically

UBW isn't like Gil's Gate of Babylon. UBW works by copying the appearance of weapons he sees/senses, and then creating it within UBW so he can use it.

Unless he fought Gilgamesh before fighting Deku, he's not gonna have access to every Noble Phantasm out there. Most of his weapons will be normal swords which, albeit dangerous, is not nearly as bad as Gae Bolg, and although he does indeed have a few NPs in there like Caldabog, it's still not enough to stop Deku from just dodging everything with Gearshift + Danger Sense. At best Shirou can trace Deku's Mid Gauntlets and Iron Soles but that doesn't help him

He would have acess to all his noble weapons in this fight actually, since this key is when he have acess to all that.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

The argument that it is unlikely that Shirou would project Gae Bolg is something I expressly mentioned, and is the sole reason this is even debatable currently.

I'd argue however that shirou projecting ANY weapon really should be enough to take on Deku, as he's still getting speed amped over the equalization unless it's provable that Deku would have enough of a gain to surpass the increase Shirou gets as well

 

[Mickey1940]

Agreeing that if he uses Gearshift it's immediately over, unless Shirou projects something an especially fast servant's weapon

This doesn't explicitly say it loses the conceptual/casuality aspect but **** it, I'll run with it, still regardless as Shirou isnt limited to throwing

Gáe Bolg: Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death and Gáe Bolg: Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death have 2 unique effects depending on the circumstance

Gáe Bolg: Barbed Spear that Pierces with Death is a melee attack that ignores causality to always strike an opponent's heart. Instead of following the usual laws of physics with "Launch the Attack" = cause and "Pierce someone's heart" as the effect, this attack reverses that order, so the opponent's heart is already ****** even before he launches the attack, therefore ignoring durability. It's a good insta kill against most single targets

Gáe Bolg: Soaring Spear that Strikes with Death is a ranged attack that DOESN'T ignore causality, and doesn't flip the regular order of events. Instead, it locks onto an opponent's heart like a homing attack, but the resulting hit is a massive explosion instead of a stab. Due to the attack's great speed, power, and homing nature, its extremely difficult to be blocked by someone with the same AP and durability, and it also can't be dodged since it just turns right around and hits you.

 

[Mickey1940]

The argument that it is unlikely that Shirou would project Gae Bolg is something I expressly mentioned, and is the sole reason this is even debatable currently.

I'd argue however that shirou projecting ANY weapon really should be enough to take on Deku, as he's still getting speed amped over the equalization unless it's provable that Deku would have enough of a gain to surpass the increase Shirou gets as well

Both combattant's normal speed are equalized in this fight. Meaning 100% Deku and Shirou both have equal speed

Problem is, Gearshift and Fa Jin MASSIVELY enhance Deku's speed to the point that he can blitz him completely and utterly