Low 7-B Tournament Semi-Finals Kamen Rider Blade vs Wrath

[Oleggator]

Semi-Finals, Match 2: Kamen Rider Blade (Kamen Rider Blade) (@Nicetoderp) vs Wrath (Web Novel) (Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka) (@DontTalkDT)

Rules: Equal Speed, Low 7-B only, location is New Pork City

Quick Plot: After recent fights despite being in different locations, both Blade and Wrath could hear and see a giant airship, which led them into New Pork City. After visiting NPC, and fighting some of Pigmask recruits, Wrath was almost hit by lighting which he managed to dodge, he doesn't saw from who it came however he saw KR Blade, which lead them to fight each other.

Blade:

Wrath:

Inconclusive:

 

[Smashtwig]

These bloody kamen riders. Aight what's this one's gimmick?

 

[Lonkitt]

Aight what's this one's gimmick?

Playing Cards, which grant Blade a number of different abilities

That’s just me answering what the gimmick of the season is though, to explain every ability, I’d have to go a little more in depth

 

[Lonkitt]

Okay, let's see.

Kamen Rider Blade:
-Really good RPL
-Several stat/attack amps + Rage Power
--On that topic, he can reflect and reduce damage with the Metal Trilobite
--Can outspeed Wrath with the Mach Jaguar
-Can resist electricity manip to a greater degree
-Arguably has a skill advantage, given his fights against the Undead, Garren, and Chalice. The Undeads fought in a large scale battle royale against others in order to determine who would rule over others, and this went on for quite so time. Kenzaki himself has received training from BOARD, like Tachibana (Garren), and was able to defeat him. And of course, Hajime (Chalice) is a very skilled Undead and Kamen Rider which Kenzaki's fought consistently
-More impressive Enhanced Senses
-Will be able to straight up measure just how strong Wrath is comparison as well as other additional info
-Can form barriers


Wrath:
-Starts with an AP advantage
-Can enhance his AP
-Better regeneration
-Can resist electricity, fire, air, and ice manip
-Soul manip
-Fear manip

So both actually have solid wincons here. Given Blade's RPL and amps, I can see him being able to put Wrath down, and he would be aided in doing so due to his skill and resistance to electricity manip. That said, Wrath does have some better regen as well as some nice resistances and the ability to destroy Kenzaki's soul. Wrath can amp his own stats, but I'm a little more in favour of how quick Kenzaki's amps + RPL are

If I'm missing anything, feel free to inform me

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Soul and Fear hax aren't combat-applicable/used in-characters btw

 

[Lonkitt]

Ohhhhh, alright. My bad, I thought they were

If that's the case, then I believe Kenzaki takes this. Wrath can resist some of his abilities, but as mentioned about, Blade's RPL and stat amps combined with his skill are more than capable of putting him down

Voting Kamen Rider Blade

 

[Lonkitt]

Another thing to bring up for Kenzaki is that his armour in this key passively emits a high amount of heat radiation, so there's that to take into consideration for the battle

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Another thing to bring up for Kenzaki is that his armour in this key passively emits a high amount of heat radiation, so there's that to take into consideration for the battle

You mean....Take it a Try!
Okay i'll leave now

 

[Nicetoderp]

While Wrath Regen would allow him to stick around a bit longer, I think Kenzaki just RPL and AP/Rage Amp through the gap and eventually land a decisive finishing blow with his Finisher.

Also, didn't Kenzaki blow up one of the Undead?

 

[Lonkitt]

You'll have to be a little more specific, Kamen Riders blow a lot up. If you mean "kill" an Undead, yeah, King Form can kill Undeads

 

[Nicetoderp]

Yeah so Wrath explosion Resistance probably won't be coming into play here.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Bump!!

 

[Lonkitt]

Bump

 

[DontTalkDT]

To quote something from the match against Robonyan:

Blade’s stuff doesn’t rely on tech, it’s mainly the supernatural abilities of it. This form especially is more supernatural than technology due to it being fused with Rouze Cards, which are supernatural

Wrath has AoE powernull when he activates Dragon Power, so Blades entire armor stops working due to being supernatural in nature. (which was the argument against being hacked, so I assume we are talking about integral parts getting jammed here)

To that I want to add that Wrath has the highest level of sword skill earned after fighting the world's greatest swordsman for a month on end. So I really doubt Blade has a skill advantage here.

Additionally, Wrath has his own speed amps + thought speed amps + multiple consciousnesses working in parallel + precog + probability stuff + sword rain to reliably land hits and not get outpaced by Blade at all. The hits should deal pretty solid damage.

Wrath has appraisal, which is better than Blades power measurement. It shows him Blade's stats split up in the different categories and all of his abilities right away. Also, Wrath can negate appraisal via ruler authority, meaning that Blade can't actually measure him at all.

It should be said that while Blade has RPL, resistances in kumo desu ga increase as you get damaged by that type of attack. So while Blade grows stronger Wrath grows more resistant to his attack. And Wrath starts of with a huge advantage, as Blade's slashing and blunt attacks won't deal enough damage to overcome his regeneration (the former dealing no damage at all) and Blade's non-physical stuff gets hit by the power null... if his suit somehow isn't taken down right away as I initially said.


So yeah, Wrath should take this easily.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah so Wrath explosion Resistance probably won't be coming into play here.

Why wouldn't it? If we are talking about overcoming explosion resistance or something, it should be noted that Wrath has several 'layers' of it. As in, his resistance isn't at all baseline.

 

[Nicetoderp]

Wrath has AoE powernull when he activates Dragon Power, so Blades entire armor stops working due to being supernatural in nature.

Didn't know about that one. If that's the case then it would gib Blade pretty hard

Additionally, Wrath has his own speed amps + thought speed amps + multiple consciousnesses working in parallel + precog + probability stuff + sword rain to reliably land hits and not get outpaced by Blade at all.

Blade speed amp allow him to blitz people who is massively faster than Wrath. So very unlikely that Wrath amp can actually match Blade speed.

But yeah, if Wrath can neg Kenzaki's armor then it's barely a fight.

Why wouldn't it? If we are talking about overcoming explosion resistance or something, it should be noted that Wrath has several 'layers' of it. As in, his resistance isn't at all baseline.

Undead have type 2 Immortality, Kenzaki crack it by Protag Privilege.

 

[Lonkitt]

To that I want to add that Wrath has the highest level of sword skill earned after fighting the world's greatest swordsman for a month on end.

While this is true, Blade has defeated opponents who've had more experience fighting endlessly for thousands of years with the same kind of weapon mastery not limited to swordplay, which I why I favour Blade here regarding skill

That said, you've provided an excellent explanation of how capable Wrath is here. Blade's RPL is still fairly good, given it allowed his Ace Form to start overcoming an opponent that gave his Jack Form trouble, but I do see what you're saying about the potency of Wrath's resistances

Though, I thought Dragon Power was only applicable to magic?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Blade speed amp allow him to blitz people who is massively faster than Wrath. So very unlikely that Wrath amp can actually match Blade speed.

Ehhhh... being 'massively faster than Wrath' means little, as the speed amp must be in terms of multipliers to matter in speed equal. If Blade was closer to their speed than Wrath is, the analogy doesn't work. Additionally, Wrath's thought speed amp is so big, it allows a normal human to read an entire chapter in a moment. Good chance he sees Blade moving in slow motion, even after a speed boost.

Undead have type 2 Immortality, Kenzaki crack it by Protag Privilege.

Wrath has no immortality, so I don't see how that helps. Or especially how it would justify the explosions dealing much damage when Wrath resists them.

While this is true, Blade has defeated opponents who've had more experience fighting endlessly for thousands of years with the same kind of weapon mastery not limited to swordplay, which I why I favour Blade here regarding skill

That said, you've provided an excellent explanation of how capable Wrath is here. Blade's RPL is still fairly good, given it allowed his Ace Form to start overcoming an opponent that gave his Jack Form trouble, but I do see what you're saying about the potency of Wrath's resistances

Well, the swordmaster in my example fought against all kinds of superhuman supernatural monsters with all kinds of unfair abilities. And the skill system in kumo desu ga accelerates the learning process.

Though, I thought Dragon Power was only applicable to magic?

'Magic' being as much as supernatural power being converted into phenomenon by user (as opposed to skills, where no users participation is required). I see no good reason to not equalize it.

 

[DontTalkDT]

To add one more thing: with boosts Wrath is basically right at the edge to 7-B. So the only way Blade can RPL past Wrath in stats, is if you can proof that he can RPL to 7-B. AT the point we would of course talk about CRT stuff~

 

[Lonkitt]

I do think Blade can get pretty high with RPL and stat amps, but I can't say he'd reach the mark before baseline 7-B

 

[Lonkitt]

Now understanding the potency of Wrath's resistances and amps better, I think I'll switch my vote to Wrath, as I see this fight coming down to who can overpower the other

 

[IxaSaga2]

'Magic' being as much as supernatural power being converted into phenomenon by user (as opposed to skills, where no users participation is required). I see no good reason to not equalize it.

I don't really know about this. Magic is a supernatural power that's created by the user, Blade's power comes from sealing monsters that get their power from a "God". (Floating Tablet thing)

 

[IxaSaga2]

I do think Blade can get pretty high with RPL and stat amps, but I can't say he'd reach the mark before baseline 7-B

Blade's Jack Form is 1.5x his Base form. His RPL was able to make him (in Base Form) to harm Caucasus Undead who stomped Jack Form which means it should be way higher than the initial 1.5x. Blade needs a ~2.1x AP amp to make him just below baseline 7-B so its really doable.

 

[IxaSaga2]

I don't really know about this. Magic is a supernatural power that's created by the user, Blade's power comes from sealing monsters that get their power from a "God". (Floating Tablet thing)

To add to this, it has been mentioned that Blade's Armor is has supernatural aspects to it, but it also has biological and technological. Example, the suit itself is technology and with some biology aspects. The Rouze Cards are technology that captures supernatural beings which uses their biological abilities.

 

[BERRIES555]

I do think Blade can get pretty high with RPL and stat amps, but I can't say he'd reach the mark before baseline 7-B

I mean, Kenzaki’s RPL got him from 9-A to Low 7-B. He should easily get from Low 7-B to 7-B

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If Wrath have that AoE powernull then isn't this a stomp?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

AoE Powernull is too much for the tourney if you ask me

 

[Lonkitt]

I mean, Kenzaki’s RPL got him from 9-A to Low 7-B. He should easily get from Low 7-B to 7-B

I don't think it actually goes that high. Jack Form doesn't reach that level

 

[Lonkitt]

If Wrath have that AoE powernull then isn't this a stomp?

It's a specific powernull, so that depends. It's also still up for debate if Dragon Power is potent in that regard here

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Adding from mine: Does he use it frequently (not spamming but like, can use it like three or more strike in a row)

 

[IxaSaga2]

The context for the power null is completely different than from Blade's. The power null from what I assume nulls magic and spells and stuff like that. Blade gets his powers from Undeads but they never use spells and magics or anything like that. Metal Trilobites' defenses come from it's natural defense, Mach Jaguar's speed comes from its natural speed, Kick Locust gets it's athletics from it's natural body structure. Blade just adds on that power to himself to amp up.

Blade's Jack Form is 1.5x his Base form. His RPL was able to make him (in Base Form) to harm Caucasus Undead who stomped Jack Form which means it should be way higher than the initial 1.5x. Blade needs a ~2.1x AP amp to make him just below baseline 7-B so its really doable.

My initial statement about Blade being able to reach below baseline 7-B quite easily still stands. Especially if it derives from just his RPL + Rage Power.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Another argument about skill:

Blade is King Form which means he's EoS. At this point Blade has already read the opponent's skill level in his series and RPLed from them. It's not like he fights Chalice, RPL his skill to Chalice's skill and then forgets about it the next day. He has fought so many opponents at this point including Garren, Chalice, Leangle, multiple Category Jack, Queens, King, and Aces, All the Trial Monsters, Cerberus Undead, and most importantly Joker.

 

[Lonkitt]

In the case regarding the RPL stuff that Ixa just said, I'll retract the Wrath vote for now and do some more thinking

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If that so then the powernull going jack to Kenzaki

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don't really know about this. Magic is a supernatural power that's created by the user, Blade's power comes from sealing monsters that get their power from a "God". (Floating Tablet thing)

The power null interferes in the conversion process from supernatural power to technique/phenomenon. So whether the power is supplied directly or indirectly makes no real difference.

A lot of magic in kumo desu ga is made to be cast by many people together and yet still is just normal magic

Blade's Jack Form is 1.5x his Base form. His RPL was able to make him (in Base Form) to harm Caucasus Undead who stomped Jack Form which means it should be way higher than the initial 1.5x. Blade needs a ~2.1x AP amp to make him just below baseline 7-B so its really doable

Just being higher than a 1.5 multiplier that is still not 7-B won't help. Wrath also upscales far above his actual ranking, by an unquantified amount. Like, Wrath fights elder dragons 1 vs 2, but the low 7-B comes from a mid-tier regular dragon.

Also, if he can quickly change his tier that would need to be listed on the profile. Without that claiming 7-B is illegitimate.

To add to this, it has been mentioned that Blade's Armor is has supernatural aspects to it, but it also has biological and technological. Example, the suit itself is technology and with some biology aspects. The Rouze Cards are technology that captures supernatural beings which uses their biological abilities.

In the last thread it was said it by far the most is supernatural, to the point that hacking the technological components wouldn't shut it down. Given that that argument won that vs-thread for the tournament I'm fairy insistent that taking down the supernatural opponents shuts it down. Can't just change how it works every time it comes up.

I mean, Kenzaki’s RPL got him from 9-A to Low 7-B. He should easily get from Low 7-B to 7-B

That is wrong on so many levels.

For a start, the difference between 9-A and Blade's calculated feat is 1.2*10^16J. The difference between 7-B and the calculated feat is1.4e16. So the power boost he needs to reach that tier in absolute values is actually larger than what he did.

Additionally, the whole notion that Blade can at any tier boost by the same amount over the same period of time is a NLF. If he could simply always continue growing at such rates, then after a few hours he would be like Tier 6 or even higher. You can't just claim his RPL will eventually get him to any higher tier. You need evidence that it can actually get him there at all.

Lastly, what you are suggesting is to deduce a multiplier from the 9-A to Low 7-B boost and then apply that to Low 7-B. By our regulations on multipliers, multipliers need to originate from direct statements and can't be reasoned from something else. So by our wiki standards that doesn't work.

And, as said, if someone can in a very short time provably grow to higher tiers that belongs in the AP section of the profile, like for the Avatar of Calamity.

Another argument about skill:

Blade is King Form which means he's EoS. At this point Blade has already read the opponent's skill level in his series and RPLed from them. It's not like he fights Chalice, RPL his skill to Chalice's skill and then forgets about it the next day. He has fought so many opponents at this point including Garren, Chalice, Leangle, multiple Category Jack, Queens, King, and Aces, All the Trial Monsters, Cerberus Undead, and most importantly Joker.

I mean... your point? If you want to say he has already RPL'd to 7-B... well, the profile say no to that.

Actually, that makes me wonder. If he has RPL'd so much already and he is supposed to be able to grow to 7-B super quickly, the he would already need to be 7-B in this key. At least, if the argument for him being able to do that actually held. Meaning either his profile needs revision for this key to not be Low 7-B, but 7-B, or the RPL can't actually be proven to be that good.

 

[DontTalkDT]

To also bring up one more argument in favour of Wrath: All of Blade's good stuff is late game. In the beginning, Blade has no RPL yet and Wrath will do his best to not let him use any cards after appraising him. Wrath can activate his boosts per thought and with his precog he should dominate pretty hard early game.

I don't think Blade will reach the late game where his stuff gets going without taking a beating first... if it all. And those won't be just scratches, but things that limit fighting capability by a lot. Severed limbs, organ damage and stuff like that.

 

[IxaSaga2]

The power null interferes in the conversion process from supernatural power to technique/phenomenon. So whether the power is supplied directly or indirectly makes no real difference.

A lot of magic in kumo desu ga is made to be cast by many people together and yet still is just normal magic

But the Rouze Cards themselves are technology which is embedded into Blade's armor which is technology. He changes into King form through Supernatural means but he already starts off in King form.

Just being higher than a 1.5 multiplier that is still not 7-B won't help. Wrath also upscales far above his actual ranking, by an unquantified amount. Like, Wrath fights elder dragons 1 vs 2, but the low 7-B comes from a mid-tier regular dragon.

Also, if he can quickly change his tier that would need to be listed on the profile. Without that claiming 7-B is illegitimate.

I'll say it in a different way

1. Jack Form is 1.5x Base Form
2. Caucasus Undead stomped Jack Form
3. Later, Blade in Base Form dealt damage and is strong enough to combat Caucasus Undead.
4. That means that Blade at that point is Far higher than 1.5x with just his RPL and Rage Power

In the last thread it was said it by far the most is supernatural, to the point that hacking the technological components wouldn't shut it down. Given that that argument won that vs-thread for the tournament I'm fairy insistent that taking down the supernatural opponents shuts it down. Can't just change how it works every time it comes up.

Not really, it's a mix of Tech, Supernatural, and Biological. Last match, shutting down Blade's Technology won't shut down his biological or supernatural. Same here, shutting down his supernatural won't shut down his technological or biological parts.

I mean... your point? If you want to say he has already RPL'd to 7-B... well, the profile say no to that.

I didn't say that.

Actually, that makes me wonder. If he has RPL'd so much already and he is supposed to be able to grow to 7-B super quickly, the he would already need to be 7-B in this key. At least, if the argument for him being able to do that actually held. Meaning either his profile needs revision for this key to not be Low 7-B, but 7-B, or the RPL can't actually be proven to be that good.

The profile should have a higher in this key because he still has the same RPL + Rage Power + Stat Amp as his other keys. That's a botch on our part.

My point is Blade is really ******* skill at this point even without RPL:

I could go into more detail to explain:
Undead Categories 1 - 9 (36 in total) : A cumulative of at least 36 thousands of years of combat experience from a constant battle royale.
Undead Category 10 (4 in total): Stronger and more skilled than Categories 1 - 9
Undead Category Jack + Queen (8 in total): Stronger and more skilled than Category 10
Undead Category Kings + Aces (7 in total not including Chalice): Stronger and more skilled than Category Jacks + Queens
Kamen Riders (4 in total including Blade): Blade as a show has a massive power struggle with the 4 riders, each trying to one up each other. They battle against Undead and Riders and RPLed for each other. In Blade, RPL includes skill, not just power. They are just as skilled as Jacks, Queens and potentially Aces in their BoS, now imagine EoS.
Trial Monsters: Human-made cyborgs that take their power from undeads.
Cerberus Undead: Human becoming an undead creating one that is stronger that needs 4 Kamen Riders to defeat.
Joker: The strongest and most skilled Undead easily capable of wiping the floor with every other undead.

Blade has defeated a majority of them at this point or at least RPLed from Garren, Leangle, and Chalice who RPLed from them fighting Undeads too.

 

[Lonkitt]

Actually, the Rouze Cards are supernatural given their origin. The Undeads were using them as well during the Battle Fight

 

[IxaSaga2]

Actually, the Rouze Cards are supernatural given their origin. The Undeads were using them as well during the Battle Fight

Ah, my b. Blade's suit and Blay Rouzer is still technology however and since the Rouze cards are already embedded into his armor then, idk why he can't use them.

 

[BERRIES555]

.Additionally, the whole notion that Blade can at any tier boost by the same amount over the same period of time is a NLF. If he could simply always continue growing at such rates, then after a few hours he would be like Tier 6 or even higher. You can't just claim his RPL will eventually get him to any higher tier. You need evidence that it can actually get him there at all.

Lastly, what you are suggesting is to deduce a multiplier from the 9-A to Low 7-B boost and then apply that to Low 7-B. By our regulations on multipliers, multipliers need to originate from direct statements and can't be reasoned from something else. So by our wiki standards that doesn't work.

And, as said, if someone can in a very short time provably grow to higher tiers that belongs in the AP section of the profile, like for the Avatar of Calamity.

Kenzaki’s RPL’s strength depends on how strong his opponents are. It’s like like those characters who passively gets stronger overtime. When fighting against the Cassius Undead, Kenzaki went from being casually stomped to being able to overwhelm the Undead in a matter of seconds.

It’s not a multiplier, I don’t think I said it was even from our previous threads. It’s just Kenzaki’s Rouze Level reacting to his opponents.

I mean, we could change it ig. But it wouldn’t be “9-A to Low 7-B overtime”, it would just be “9-A, Varies overtime”, since his amp comes from how strong his opponents are.