Shantae (3) vs Ultear Milkovich (5)

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Schnee can correct me if I am wrong, but we don't just say RPG characters have every thing they should potentially possess in the game at once on their person.

but i may be thinking of an entirely different thread or remember how it went completely wrong, in which case ignore me.

 

[Schnee_One]

We do if it's standard equipment

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

is hard to know what is standard equipment with Shantae, to be honest.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Ultear can see invisible people with her senses, we covered this very early on.

When?

 

[Schnee_One]

Caught Lucy going invisible twice

 

[AquaWaifu]

that was literally never covered in this thread.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I can't find invisibility in her profile either.

 

[Schnee_One]

Invisibility needs to get passed ESP and the homing danmaku.

@Dat Not a spell she can use on her own

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Not a spell, but it's still something she can use on her own. Dankmaku won't hit her, she just phases through the orbs.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

is hard to know what is standard equipment with Shantae, to be honest.

Not really? Everything she has, she has access to at all times. Plus, her games are platformers not RPGs.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Can you link to this Lucy fight?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Nice pfp of Konata ovo

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The point isn't that she can use it on her own, is that she could use it no matter the source and Ultear had no problem with it whatsoever. And there's nothing making Shantae just going for that phasing option right away.

@Apies Is it something she has available and on her person in most of her canon appearences/different games?

 

[1997KD]

Ultear fra

 

[Tonygameman]

Ultear for reasons above.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I'm not arguing she's going to use it from the start, but when Shantae does start using ìt, Ultear literally can't harm Shantae.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Oh, I guess that's Grace.

 

[AquaWaifu]

So people just gonna completely ignore Shantae can phase through Ultear's attacks?


Okay.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Phase through with something she never uses in combat to phase through attacks.

Or she does? Please go ahead and show that'd make it easier.

 

[Bob8999]

well ultear has thought projection which is the same magic that allowed natsu to hit wraith . so that could work.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Pretty sure it's been explained the shantae games have no cut scene combat. It's all gameplay.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So there's no indication at all that it is used in combat.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

@LSir Are you really going to use that type of logic? The item itself is something she can use and has used in battle and to get secret items. The description even says "Let's you walk past enemies!" I've already said this, when Shantae fights you play. We can't use the logic she won't use it in battle because we don't see a cutscene, otherwise this affects almost every game character.

@Bob Is her thought projection copy able to interact with people? Looking at the wiki, it's used as a hologram for communication and only certain people can actually use it to interact with others.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Show me where she has used it in battle. I literally just asked that, its that darned simple. Getting items is not the same as using it for combat. Walking past enemies is avoiding, not becoming immune to retaliation while you attack them, still doesn't sound like she'd use it for combat but to run away. And it already does? Ain't gonna assume a character uses something in a way that is not even used in the game itself, we already don't assume characters do shit like combining skills for maximum efficiency just because its technically doable by a player.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Only it isn't that simple, this means I will have to look through tons and long videos of a person playing the game and hoping they actually use the item. The item is used both for combat and puzzles as most items in game. If the video I've shown is Shantae using it to phase through objects, then the context for "Let's you walk past enemies" would mean the same thing. Only that is the way you can use it in the game, that's the entire point of the item, to phase through objects and enemies. And Shantae is able to combine skills, that's how she's able to use several items at the same time.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

If someone can provide a video, that would be extremely helpful because if no one does...I have to go and find several playgroughs and hope they use it.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Uuuuuh... that's not my problem? If you think it can be actually used that way, prove it? That's the whole point of the burden of proof being on your side. If it can't be used for battle and even the description itself indicates it better be used for evading enemies, not wailing on them while you are practically invisible and untouchable, I have no reason to believe Shantae can exploit it in the way you are saying.

 

[AquaWaifu]

I have the game, her first game, playing it right now can 100% confirm you CAN attack while using vanishing cream. on my 3DS

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Honestly, characters who don't have a personality or canonical mindset for fighting (even as a gag) should just get banned from vs threads. F&G are free game but if such a vital part of the character is non existent, its impossible to accurately debate them.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Shantae has a personality, she's just never fought in a cut scene.

 

[AquaWaifu]

ummmmm no? that'd ban SO MANY video game characters and just a TON of other characters in general.

Shantae has access to equipment, thus since nothing in her games show she DOESNT NOT use them, she is in character to use them, same as Mario with lots of his stuff.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

That is not how it works at all. It needs to show her using them or else we assume she doesn't. This is vs thread basics 101.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

This is the same issue we have with people at times arguing that X character can use this combo of abilities that a player himself could because is totally doable and together they are pretty damn effective.

But that's something a player can do because they are thinking outside the box, not because the character could conceivibably try that. Even the item's very description in the game doesn't say anything like "you can use the intangibility to wail on enemies without reprisal!", but rather to evade them.

 

[AquaWaifu]

That is not how it works at all. It needs to show her using them or else we assume she doesn't. This is vs thread basics 101.

thats ridiculous,to bring up Mario or Clou of Final Fantasy, or Sora, they have access to a TON of stuff that is NEVER used OR mentioned in their games stories that ONLY sees uses in gameplay, to assume they wouldnt use it is asinine. What you are suggesting is absurd.


I guess those wins Sora gets from warp command are banned...and Mario using any paper mario badges...and summons with Cloud amd basically any materia, or even Curaga since he never uses that in cutscenes, so Sora cant heal anymore. and honestly Shantae never is ACTUALLY shown using her transformations outside of gameplay so she cant use either.

 

[Schnee_One]

That ban really does depend on if the character at least has a set style to assume from gameplay

Cole for example range spams because that's the only things the game focuses on him doing

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You are using Mario as some sort of substition despite the whole problem being that nothing in Shantae, not her personality, not cutscenes, not the very description of the item itself, indicates the possibility of using it for attacking without reprisal.

Do you actually understand the problem in question?

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

So characters like the Dovahkiin, Ashen One and the Chosen Undead do literally nothing in combat? None of those characters fight in cut scenes, ever.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I have to wonder if you are even trying to read anything anyone is saying.

Is there anything that indicates Shantae would use that item in that specific way beyond a player possibily thinking of it? No?

Tough luck.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It isn't asinine, it is logical. They still have that stuff but that doesn't automatically mean it will get used in a fight.

You list off all that stuff like it is supposed to convince someone. I say someone cuz it sure as hell won't be me. I haven't played any of those games. I don't care about those games or characters. My opinion on this (no canon mind set in fights) is completely unbiased. Glad you agree ovo

 

[AquaWaifu]

Is there anyway for us to know how Sora fro Kingom Hearts would use drive forms to replenish his HP like it does in games?

You're using game mechanics to say "X won't do this"

They have access to use it and nothing shows they'd be against using it, and she CAN ingame attack while using it, so why wouldnt she use that to her advantage?