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How is that going to help her when she's going to struggle attacking Shantae?
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Shantae (3) vs Ultear Milkovich (5)
- Thread starter ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Her punching and tanking everything she does through an almost 5x AP advantage...…?
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Her own attacks will be reflected and physical attacks is a huge no no if she wants to get peirced with a scythe or pike ball. I can see Shantae eventually being able to take her out, if she does get hurt then Super Revive Dance will restore that.
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Ultear being almost 5x stronger means she punches through the shield with utter ease.
Her Scythe being almost 5x weaker also means it won't do much to damage Ultear either
Her Scythe being almost 5x weaker also means it won't do much to damage Ultear either
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Uh, the bubble has the ability to reflect projectiles. I don't think she can stop it with AP alone, especially since she's used it on beings stronger than her.
My argument still holds that she can heal herself if she takes too much damage. Shantae can play the range game with her projectiles and aoe explosions. Twin mints, monster milk, and super monster milk can also boost up her strength.
My argument still holds that she can heal herself if she takes too much damage. Shantae can play the range game with her projectiles and aoe explosions. Twin mints, monster milk, and super monster milk can also boost up her strength.
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Attack Reflection is very explicitly tied to AP and what it has shown to reflect, unless you think that the Shield would be able to reflect a Punch from Goku.
A 5x strike, let alone multiple from her numerous projectiles one of which is most likely hitting her in a vital organ, will absolutely kill her,
Playing the range game against a person who specializes in that who is almost 5x stronger will not go well.
A 5x strike, let alone multiple from her numerous projectiles one of which is most likely hitting her in a vital organ, will absolutely kill her,
Playing the range game against a person who specializes in that who is almost 5x stronger will not go well.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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I'm not seeing much of a wincon for Shantae now with the new ap gap, personally.
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"Some common limitations include only working on attacks of a certain type or power level, a lengthy preparation time, or a specific requirement for use."
This is only for specific types of attack reflection, Shantae's bubble hasn't been shown to break against projectiles stronger than her.
Said projectiles are useless and will simply be reflected.
Why wouldn't it? She won't be able to attack her unless it's by close combat.
This is only for specific types of attack reflection, Shantae's bubble hasn't been shown to break against projectiles stronger than her.
Said projectiles are useless and will simply be reflected.
Why wouldn't it? She won't be able to attack her unless it's by close combat.
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Also, where does her 25 megaton ap come from? We are using their Low 7-B forms, meaning Ultear's ap is 2.4 megatons. Her 7-B form is 25.8 megatons. So the ap advantage was false.
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"Ultear is In X791" from the OP
The form we were using got buffed to 7B
The form we were using got buffed to 7B
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Wait, nevermind.
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You need to prove Shantae's bubble can hold her own against much stronger attacks, I don't recall her ever fighting somebody stronger then her that the bubble was able to be completely fine.DatOneWeeb said:
What do you mean she can't attack? Shantae is tens of meters while Shantae is in the Hundreds
Also, mindhax.
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Switching back to Ultear due to ap gap.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Ultear still has a Low 7- B form right? I'll just switch to that.
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Aaand Shantae for ap advantage and my other reasons above.
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To be honest I still think Shantae can win. She still has an ap advantage of almost x3, with Twin Mints and Monster Milk doubling her power. She can still heal herself as so far we've only seen Ultear block physical objects. And Shantae is experienced in fighting without her magic as Shantae and the Pirates Curse is an entire game without her using her magic until the final boss fight. Projectiles might be a problem, but this isn't Shantae's first time fighting someone with several projectiles or dodging a large hoard. Teleportation can still he used, as well as invisibility.
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Shantae will be extremely hard pressed to get in on omnidirectional projectiles without any knowledge that using her shield will get her penetrated by that many attacks.
Assuming she can heal and cross the hundreds of meter distance she only has physical attacks to beat Ultear, who can simply mindhax after realizing that range spamming Shantae isn't doing anything.
Assuming she can heal and cross the hundreds of meter distance she only has physical attacks to beat Ultear, who can simply mindhax after realizing that range spamming Shantae isn't doing anything.
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Shantae isn't an idiot, if she sees her bubble won't work then she's going to stop relying on it.
I mean these characters are extremely fast compared to regular people, so crossing that distances won't be a huge issue. Also, I'm pretty sure Shantae can still use her explosion magic as I doubt Ultear can remove an AoE attack that's in every direction. Also, how does her mind manipulation work? It says that it "corrupts" them which Shantae resists as she can resist Holly's mind manipulation was able to break out of dark magic from turning her evil.
I mean these characters are extremely fast compared to regular people, so crossing that distances won't be a huge issue. Also, I'm pretty sure Shantae can still use her explosion magic as I doubt Ultear can remove an AoE attack that's in every direction. Also, how does her mind manipulation work? It says that it "corrupts" them which Shantae resists as she can resist Holly's mind manipulation was able to break out of dark magic from turning her evil.
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Didn't say she was.
So is Ultear, who can equally retreat back with her own speed, speed is Equal anyway.
Shantae needs to get in range to use said AoE attack while Ultear can keep returning back
It twists a person's personality to make them go insane, though if that's holy magic I have no idea if that resistance will help
So is Ultear, who can equally retreat back with her own speed, speed is Equal anyway.
Shantae needs to get in range to use said AoE attack while Ultear can keep returning back
It twists a person's personality to make them go insane, though if that's holy magic I have no idea if that resistance will help
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So is she basically gonna go "Oh no, she's coming, I better run" or...? It's not like Shantae won't be completely immune to the orbs harming her.
Warp Dance can even up the gap in distance as the teleports herself extremely far (as big as entire level sections.)
I didn't mention Holy magic? I said Holly's mind manipulation, Shantae resisted it. And the dark magic turned Shantae evil and completely switched her out personality however she was able to break free of it. So mind manipulation is a nope.
Warp Dance can even up the gap in distance as the teleports herself extremely far (as big as entire level sections.)
I didn't mention Holy magic? I said Holly's mind manipulation, Shantae resisted it. And the dark magic turned Shantae evil and completely switched her out personality however she was able to break free of it. So mind manipulation is a nope.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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So, in that video it's kinda hard to tell, cause it's an amv, but why isn't Ultear able to evaporate the ice after it gets a bunch of dudes blood(?) in it?Schnee One said:
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^That
Her profile also states that she can't affect living people.
Her profile also states that she can't affect living people.
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Anyways, my vote still stays for Shantae.
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So the reasonings for each side are Ultear
- Homing danmaku's
- Negs the explosions
- Negs the bubble too
- Can heal
- Has a x2-3 AP advantage
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Shantae has her transformations too.
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@Anonymous She can't neg the explosions. That's going to be extremely difficult as it is an AoE attack.
@1997KD Shantae can cover the distance between them very quickly due to Warp Dance. She has the ap advantage of almost x3, with Monster Milk, Super Monster Milk, and Twin Mints increasing it. If Shantae takes damage, Super Revive Dance will fully restore herself. Invisibility can give her a few free hits. Her mind manipulation gets resisted. And Shantae herself is experienced in fighting without having magic.
In fact, I completely forgot something important about Pirates Curse. Shantae can use bubble in Pirates Curse as an item as well, meaning it isn't magic. As well as her pike balls. Meaning Shantae can just use those items, albiet they are temporary, that doesn't negate their usefulness.
@1997KD Shantae can cover the distance between them very quickly due to Warp Dance. She has the ap advantage of almost x3, with Monster Milk, Super Monster Milk, and Twin Mints increasing it. If Shantae takes damage, Super Revive Dance will fully restore herself. Invisibility can give her a few free hits. Her mind manipulation gets resisted. And Shantae herself is experienced in fighting without having magic.
In fact, I completely forgot something important about Pirates Curse. Shantae can use bubble in Pirates Curse as an item as well, meaning it isn't magic. As well as her pike balls. Meaning Shantae can just use those items, albiet they are temporary, that doesn't negate their usefulness.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Shantae - 1 (DatOneWeeb)
Ultear - 2 (Schnee, Zackra)
Alright, let's start counting votes again. Are these still accurate?
Ultear - 2 (Schnee, Zackra)
Alright, let's start counting votes again. Are these still accurate?
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Why would she not be able to neg explosions? She has the AOE to casually reverse time on the GH airship and the Galuna Island temple. Even without that, she just needs to reverse part of the explosion that would hit her.
How good are these transformations because they need to be decent amps for Ultear to not just danmaku Shantae into the ground.
Invisibility needs to get passed ESP and the homing danmaku.
The mind manip resistance justification isn't even mind manip, its memory manip.
Ultear can also fight without magic not that she needs to. Without magic Shantae is limited to cqc against a range spammer.
Items get negged by Arc of Time too.
How good are these transformations because they need to be decent amps for Ultear to not just danmaku Shantae into the ground.
Invisibility needs to get passed ESP and the homing danmaku.
The mind manip resistance justification isn't even mind manip, its memory manip.
Ultear can also fight without magic not that she needs to. Without magic Shantae is limited to cqc against a range spammer.
Items get negged by Arc of Time too.
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Can you show examples of this?
I wasn't using transformation as an argument. Twin Mints and Monster Milk are the ones to boost her attack.
She was still able to resist dark magic which did have mind manipulation as an affect.
I'm pretty sure she needs to Ultear needs to see Shantae if she wants to hit her. She was still got surprised attack from Natsu while during battle.
Okay? My point was that Shantae is still an experienced fighter even while being limited.
How do items get negged? Arc of Time is only supposed to work on magic, Shantae's item's aren't magic.
I wasn't using transformation as an argument. Twin Mints and Monster Milk are the ones to boost her attack.
She was still able to resist dark magic which did have mind manipulation as an affect.
I'm pretty sure she needs to Ultear needs to see Shantae if she wants to hit her. She was still got surprised attack from Natsu while during battle.
Okay? My point was that Shantae is still an experienced fighter even while being limited.
How do items get negged? Arc of Time is only supposed to work on magic, Shantae's item's aren't magic.
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I typed up rwo responses with links and everything but wiki keeps eating my posts when I click to reply so f it, I can't be bothered to go copy and paste links on my phone anymore.
Chapter 35 will show the Galuna Temple after Natsu tilted it, Chapter 39 will show it getting fixed in a panel or two with AoT. Also look up Makarov vs Grimoire Heart, he tears apart the airship and Ultear immediately fixes the ship no diff. She has more than enough AOE to neg the explosions.
Was that not due to holy stuff? Thats resisting it as a side effect.
Is invisibilty an in character or common tactic in fights? Because danmaku is Ultear's first move.
Natsu > Shantae in cqc. Ultear handled Natsu
AoT is most commonly used on her orb which is an item. There is also the two moments I mentioned above.
Chapter 35 will show the Galuna Temple after Natsu tilted it, Chapter 39 will show it getting fixed in a panel or two with AoT. Also look up Makarov vs Grimoire Heart, he tears apart the airship and Ultear immediately fixes the ship no diff. She has more than enough AOE to neg the explosions.
Was that not due to holy stuff? Thats resisting it as a side effect.
Is invisibilty an in character or common tactic in fights? Because danmaku is Ultear's first move.
Natsu > Shantae in cqc. Ultear handled Natsu
AoT is most commonly used on her orb which is an item. There is also the two moments I mentioned above.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Bump
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The problem with those examples are the fact she needs to react to it. Shantae's explosion magic happens, it isn't like a fire ball which needs to get launched towards you, the explosion will just happen out of nowhere once the dance is done. She should at least get hit by it once as she won't expect it.
Shantae resisting Holly's mind manipulation is one of her example, there was another one. Shantae's magic in Half-Genie Hero was changed to Dark Magic, which made her good to evil. That's mind manipulation. She then was able to turn back to normal.
My point was that Natsu outpaced Ultear where she did not know where he was and ended up getting punced by Natsu. Shantae can do the same.
Not my point. I was not arguing who is more experienced. I was saying Shantae is still experienced without having magic so this fight shouldn't be new.
Uh, no? I was told it works on magic and magic only. Bubble and pike balls in Pirates Curse are items Shantae can use that are not magic but can still absorb projectiles. So if she ends up throwing them at Shantae, bubble will absorb the orbs.
Once Shantae gets close enough (which will be easy via warp dance) she can use Monster Milk or Twin Mints to start dealing a lot of damage to Ultear with her needing to now fight in hand to hand combat due to bubble. However that itself will be difficult with pike balls surrounding Shantae.
Shantae resisting Holly's mind manipulation is one of her example, there was another one. Shantae's magic in Half-Genie Hero was changed to Dark Magic, which made her good to evil. That's mind manipulation. She then was able to turn back to normal.
My point was that Natsu outpaced Ultear where she did not know where he was and ended up getting punced by Natsu. Shantae can do the same.
Not my point. I was not arguing who is more experienced. I was saying Shantae is still experienced without having magic so this fight shouldn't be new.
Uh, no? I was told it works on magic and magic only. Bubble and pike balls in Pirates Curse are items Shantae can use that are not magic but can still absorb projectiles. So if she ends up throwing them at Shantae, bubble will absorb the orbs.
Once Shantae gets close enough (which will be easy via warp dance) she can use Monster Milk or Twin Mints to start dealing a lot of damage to Ultear with her needing to now fight in hand to hand combat due to bubble. However that itself will be difficult with pike balls surrounding Shantae.
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Arc of Time Magically alters the time of "non living" things. It has a varity of effects such as rewinding, stopping, or fast-forwarding time on an object yo the point it makes a large amount of copies of said object, such as a tree or the orb Ultear fights with as well as magic. So the Bubble and pikeballs would also get negated as well.DatOneWeeb said:
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Ultear was shown in the fight with Gray that she can easily negate Defensive ablities as well as offencive ones and even if shante gets in close for CQC Ultear can hold he own with her Ice make Magic, which can bind Shante so Ultear can back off a bit and continue a the range fight.AquaWaifu said:
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