Servant Speeds - Fate Series

[Reppuzan]

Recently Ant and Mighty brought up the question about Servant speeds all being scaled to Saber's and Lancer's clash at the docks. Because of this, I think it would give everyone some piece of mind if we confirmed who scales to who and whether or not stat scalings work across series not in the main timelines of the Nasuverse.

Thoughts?

 

[Alakabamm]

Unfortunately I have always been of the opinion that servants are inconsistent except in same world verses...namely, that F/Z can scale to F/SN and F/HA, but not any of the F/E continuity.

This makes, in particular, Strange Fake, Grand Order, and Apocrypha troublesome to deal with. G/O, having the least to work with, at least.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Alaka so SF, GO and Apocrypha have no good speed feats I assume?

So would we just put them at unknown?

 

[KamiYasha]

Yes and No.

I mean, Fate/Apocrypha has a calc with Mach 50+ result, but i think Alaka said that was a calc staking.

Strange Fake has been described as "lightning" Even Enkidu's Noble phantasm reached outer space in manner of a few seconds.

Prototype has a calc with at least 3 digits Mach.

So, yeah sone of them lack of feats (F/GO). But power-scale them from the Saber and Lancer feat is okay. Example: Saber of Red (Mordred) fought against Saber (Arthur) when they were alive.

So, until a feat shows up, i think is okay to leave it as how it is right now.

 

[Inoue211]

@Alakabamm

The series is inconsistent even between SN/HA and Zero, like Berserker not catching Shirou and Kirei in the blink of an eye when they were running at 50 km/h and stuff like that. So it's kind of a pain in the ass trying to guess powerlevels between each other.

As far as I know Extra is another continuity

SF happens after the 5th war but it's not after any route of F/SN.

GO is said to be in the same continuity as Prototype or something like that.


Even then like KamiYasha says you can match between verses like Apocrypha because Mordred fought Saber in life.

Though about that I should add that Mordred is inferior to Saber.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Well, Arturia and Mordred fought in life, but they're dead and are moving magic puppets at the moment so...

 

[KamiYasha]

Technically saber isn't dead. When she was summoned in the Fourth and Fifth war she was still alive.

Also there is the fact that: Alive character>>>>crappy vessel.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Well, ok, she's alive. Mordred however isn't which kinda throws the entire Apocrypha-scaling-to-the-main-storylines into the wastebin.

 

[KamiYasha]

I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Gemmysaur]

How so? Isn't the very reason scaling is being done in the first place is because they fought each other when they were alive? I kinda don't understand the why on that.

 

[KamiYasha]

No, the power-scaling of F/Z can be scale to F/SN, F/HA and F/A.

Strange Fake and Grand Order not sure. (aside from characters with basic power-scaling such as Scathach being on Karnas and Arjunas level, etc)

 

[RegisNex1232]

Well, first I'll lay out what are the different timelines and such in Fate works (even if you've all heard this a million times over) for a better understanding of my point.

Zero ---> Stay Night (however, there are some glaring inconsistencies between them and so the timeline does not fully match, but it is close enough for scaling to work) ---> Hollow Ataraxia (again, similar faults as to the first but close enough for scaling to work)

Apocrypha

Extra/CCC (takes place on the Moon Cell, so scaling doesn't really work well here for the most part)

Prototype

Prototype Fragments (Scaling for Proto Arthur may work from Prototype, but only for Arthur)

Strange Fake

Grand Order (though it does visit or touch on some of the timelines here like SN and alternate version of Zero, as well as parts of KnK here and there)


So based on this, it's difficult to scale between most Grail Wars since they have quite a few differences based on differing timelines and such. However, one can still scale some characters based on reputation (Karna, Arjuna and so on) or if you find the difference between the Servant/ their containers to be minimal (Proto Arthur to other Fragments characters, possibly SN to other verses including Apo and GO). This all comes down to how one interprets the situation as the type of containers don't really change through out the various works save for Extra/CCC.


For Strange Fake however, I did find some quotes regarding lightning speed, which are here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/303803 towards the end of the thread

If you wish, you could make calcs based on that.

 

[Alakabamm]

Well, that would be a reaction speed calc but it seems pretty simple.

Arrow was 20m away, said to be as least as fast as the lightning (description even talks about the speed of light in relation to it so we know it is legit), Gilgamesh made a swatting motion from at least that time period.

So we can scale the length of his arm from his height, treat it as a radius in a circle, assume a reasonable degree of swatting and find the distance from there (in comparison to the 20m) via arc length.

 

[Lina_Shields]

First of all, considering that the battle at the docks calculation was done from descriptions from a novel, has anyone thoroughly checked the calculation itself to see if it was correct?

Their speeds could be a lot faster.

 

[Alakabamm]

Haha, that calc just gave me mach 42 off a brief attempt.

How consistent.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Forever HHS reaction servants I see.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Alakabamm: About that description...

Velocity lightning = 440000m/s

Distance = 20m

Time = Distance / Velocity

Timeframe = 20/440000 = 4.545e-5 seconds.

Gilgamesh swinging his sword; assuming that he swung his arms about 120 degrees...

Gilgamesh's arm length = 0.8m (I guess; using this for radius)

Length of arm swing = (2*pi*0.8m)(120/360) = 1.6755m

Velocity of swing = 1.6755m/(4.545e-5 seconds) = 36864m/s, or Mach 108.33

k...

 

[Yamatohime]

Swatting movement? I hope it's just wrong translation. Because swatting movement is just movement of the wrist.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Is that calc stacking or not?

 

[Yamatohime]

It's currently nothing at all since we don't have translated text.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I was speaking of the method, and yes, we do have fan translations as I've posted the link to in my previous posts which does describe the event, so we can have a go at calculating it.

 

[Yamatohime]

The method is OK as this. But the trajectory is kind of random. Like I said the swatting movement is mostly wrist movement so we should use it. Basicaly it is around 60-90 degree circular movement with sword to deflect arrow. Additionaly we should use the length of Gil's swords (let's say it looks like 1 meter long).

This way we get: 11365-17453 m/s (33-51 Machs - with average 42 Machs) if we assume that Gil deflected with mid of his sword.

 

[Alakabamm]

0.8m for arm length is pretty long and I used 60 degrees. 120 degrees of rotation is very uncomfortable as a movement.

 

[Yamatohime]

0.8m for arm length is pretty long and I used 60 degrees. 120 degrees of rotation is very uncomfortable as a movement.

Actualy it's OK... I think... If Gil has height of... 180-190 cm.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I believe Gil has a height of 1.83m, as stated here (go to "Servant stats" and check "height")

Anyways, you can probably measure your height first, and then measure the length of one of your arms, and then find the ratio for arm to height ratio.

This nets you an approximate length for Gil's arm, or you can just pixelscale.....

 

[Yamatohime]

Aprox. the lenght of your arm is around 3-3,5 heights of your head. The height of head is 1/8 of the person's height for those whose height is 180-190 cm. So... 80 cm is possibility.

 

[Alakabamm]

Your wingspan usually equals your height

so its like your height/2.5-ish give or take some.

 

[Yamatohime]

Your wingspan usually equals your height
so its like your height/2.5-ish give or take some.

It is for heights of 170-200 cm.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I've made a blog post regarding the Gil reaction speed feat here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RegisNex1232/Fate_Strange_Fake_Gilgamesh_Reaction_Feat

You can check it out to see if it is alright and ready to be added to his profile here (and whoever scales to him).