Satoru Gojo VS Reinhard Van Astrea PART 2 (3-8-3)

[Fezzih_007]

Why?

Voting for reinhard

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Why?

space cut, I read JJk and a lot of stuff contradict their statments.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Speaking of which, does reinhard have any wicons? Because there is this thing about infinity being type 2 information, because of the cursed energy.

Unless he doesn't travel, like mind manipulation or something.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Speaking of which, does reinhard have any wicons? Because there is this thing about infinity being type 2 information, because of the cursed energy.

Unless he doesn't travel, like mind manipulation or something.

Magical transmission would still folded by Gojo.

On top of that, Sorcerors have an innate resistance to anything magical being spawned inside of their body, since bodies are also domains.

 

[Arkenis]

Reinhard FRA

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I hate this match so I will not give a vote.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Can OP list the names of the voters in the OP given they have their own standards for counting votes and to make it easier to follow? @Phoenks

 

[Phoenks]

Can OP list the names of the voters in the OP given they have their own standards for counting votes and to make it easier to follow? @Phoenks

sure

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I forgot to mention this but due to his godly intution there is also a chance for Reinhard to regain his mind manip blessing and control gojo

 

[Arkenis]

Why the ***** do JJK related matches always end up in arguing over stuff not even in the profiles yet.

We're just better than other verses. It's that simple.

 

[Zabazab]

Speaking of which, does reinhard have any wicons? Because there is this thing about infinity being type 2 information, because of the cursed energy.

Isn't the Type 2 info hax on the Cursed Energy page referring to the ability to use Cursed Energy to manipulate the fundamental info of a soul/body, not that Cursed Energy itself is Type 2 Information?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Very suspicious this match is happening while his profile is heavily under revisions. Twice, now, actually.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I forgot to mention this but due to his godly intution there is also a chance for Reinhard to regain his mind manip blessing and control gojo

Oh man.
I almost took the bait, good one Satella.

 

[Phoenks]

Very suspicious this match is happening while his profile is heavily under revisions. Twice, now, actually.

What are the revisions that would influence this match?

His tier is the only thing I could think of, with the earthquake feat and stuff. His powers haven't changed much though.




Also, I updated the OP to include names of voters.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

What are the revisions that would influence this match?

His tier is the only thing I could think of, with the earthquake feat and stuff. His powers haven't changed much though.




Also, I updated the OP to include names of voters.

His speed, which can now debatably he argued FTL if the calc is accepted, which would give him a massive increase against Reinhard considering he amps himself with not only CE, but Blue, which is fast enough to blitz comparable opponents to himself.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Isn't the Type 2 info hax on the Cursed Energy page referring to the ability to use Cursed Energy to manipulate the fundamental info of a soul/body, not that Cursed Energy itself is Type 2 Information?

I don't know, but gojo tenicas would still be type 2 information.

 

[Phoenks]

His speed, which can now debatably he argued FTL if the calc is accepted, which would give him a massive increase against Reinhard considering he amps himself with not only CE, but Blue, which is fast enough to blitz comparable opponents to himself.

I mean, even if that's accepted, speed is equalized, and if he amps to blitz level speed, Reinhard will still just instinctively dodge and become even faster anyway. Kind of how the dude works.

Wouldn't really impact the fight.

 

[Arkenis]

Isn't the Type 2 info hax on the Cursed Energy page referring to the ability to use Cursed Energy to manipulate the fundamental info of a soul/body, not that Cursed Energy itself is Type 2 Information?

No ce is also type 2 info and abstract. I maybe worded the portion incorrect, but this part

It can also interact with cursed spirits who are the manifested forms of images, emotions, and information stemming from collective human awareness and perceptions related to various phenomena[4].

"It" is in reference to curse energy, the fact cursed spirits are made from curse energy should have made it clear that curse energy also follow this.

Speaking of which, does reinhard have any wicons? Because there is this thing about infinity being type 2 information, because of the cursed energy.

Unless he doesn't travel, like mind manipulation or something.

This info type 2 infinity because of curse energy isn't a thing. The infinity is not made of curse energy. It's its own thing.

 

[KingNanaya]

put me in for rein

 

[Arkenis]

How is this done?

• Existence Erasure (Completely erased all traces of Puck from the world, to the degree that there was no hint that a battle had even taken place[29])

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I forgot to mention this but due to his godly intution there is also a chance for Reinhard to regain his mind manip blessing and control gojo

The gojo body is a domain. So it would be null because type 2 information for cursed energy things.

This info type 2 infinity because of curse energy isn't a thing. The infinity is not made of curse energy. It's its own thing.

I think Dr White disagrees.

As it stands, Regi cannot bypass infinity due to info type 2/math manip, but he can be taken out by DE.

Besides, I'm pretty sure infinity is a cursed technique.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I mean, even if that's accepted, speed is equalized, and if he amps to blitz level speed, Reinhard will still just instinctively dodge and become even faster anyway. Kind of how the dude works.

Wouldn't really impact the fight.

Your instinct doesn’t allow you to keep up with people that blitz you, lol. They still have to react, which is why it’s called instinctive reactions. Unless you have scans of Reinhard reacting to blitz level people.

 

[Zabazab]

How is this done?

By swinging his sword.

 

[Arkenis]

I think Dr White disagrees.

Besides, I'm pretty sure infinity is a cursed technique.

Yeah it is. That does not make it info type 2. This is not something accepted, nor established by the series that cursed techniques are info type 2. They are simply made from the utilization of ce.

Your instinct doesn’t allow you to keep up with people that blitz you, lol. They still have to react, which is why it’s called instinctive reactions. Unless you have scans of Reinhard reacting to blitz level people.

I mean ya can wait for that Sukuna calc to possibly get accepted and then both Gojo and reinhard can be at FTL speeds, and even with Blue's amp, it's not something Gojo casually does in combat, he certainly does not spam it during his Sukuna fight. And even if he had, Reinhard has

• Perception Manipulation (More skilled than Wilhelm who can slow down his perception of time,[30] intensifying his focus, making sound, color, and everything other than his opponent fade from the world, giving himself time to avoid attacks)
• Accelerated Development (Battle; Physical Statistics, Once he has seen an attack once, he can dodge it at greater speeds.[19])
• Instinctive Action (Superior to Wilhelm, who is superior to Julius who can dodge invisible attacks with instincts. Fights on the level of Garfiel are immediate, with no delay between decision making and action,[18] with the slightest delay being exploited by their opponent.[18] Reinhard instinctively understands how to react[19] so as to defend himself from attacks he is seeing for the very first time)

These three alone would make it so Gojo's Blue amp doesn't matter.

 

[Arkenis]

So Reinhard has Spatial cutting and Existence cutting? Yeah idk why ya still arguing bout this, the conceptual infinity has been removed and still has a crt up on if it's going to be accepted and several staff members already don't accept it. Reinhard has these two slashing attacks, Gojo's basically fighting a stronger Sukuna lol

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Yeah it is. That does not make it info type 2. This is not something accepted, nor established by the series that cursed techniques are info type 2. They are simply made from the utilization of ce.

This is incorrect, all of reality in JJK is fundamental fundamental info, which itself is underlined by emptiness (as we saw with Tengen vs Kenjaku), CE being no exception. Curses are explicitly stated to exist between mind and matter, meaning they are neither one fully, the same as information which underlies both mind and matter. So yes, it has been quite established in the series and was passed in the abilities upgrade thread.

 

[Fezzih_007]

put me in for rein

You have to give a reason, pretty sure.

 

[Arkenis]

This is incorrect, all of reality in JJK is fundamental fundamental info, which itself is underlined by emptiness (as we saw with Tengen vs Kenjaku), CE being no exception. Curses are explicitly stated to exist between mind and matter, meaning they are neither one fully, the same as information which underlies both mind and matter. So yes, it has been quite established in the series and was passed in the abilities upgrade thread.

Just wrong. All of reality is not fundamental info. What are you referring to for Tengen and Kenjaku there? Ce, the body, and the soul are information but not the reality.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Just wrong. All of reality is not fundamental info. What are you referring to for Tengen and Kenjaku there? Ce, the body, and the soul are information but not the reality.

That is quite literally what is passed.

If the souls and bodies of individuals can be downloaded from an information bank that perfectly replicates said individual, and the soul and body are both backward compatible with information being the conduit for said transposition, than it is a blatant conclusion that spirit and matter are both made of information. Matter is reality (physical) so I'm not sure how you would divorce the two from each other, and the other side of this is the spiritual reality which would include things like souls.

What do you mean when you say "CE, the body, and soul" are information but not reality? If that were the case, how would Gojo be able to use his Cursed technique to bring mathematical abstracts to impact reality?

Translation for first scan

Spoiler

Necromancy Technique Welcoming the information of the body and soul of the deceased into a new vessel. Due to the fear of resistance and loss of control, Aunt Ogami is unloading "only physical information". Baba style. A part of the body of the person being unloaded is required to use this spell. Also, there is a risk that the caster will be defenseless until the spell is activated. The degree of reproducibility is perfect, and the techniques used during life can be used without restrictions. Falling to the soul KI Jutsu ↑Because it is defenseless until the spell is activated, it is essential to have someone who protects the caster with . Jitsushiki Baba Zenintoji Ogami Baba sends a spirit to her grandson only about In Jingji's physical information. Reproduced the superhuman physical ability by divine curse.

 

[BoastJr]

pretty sure grace started

already voted via spatial slashes and godly intuition

 

[Arkenis]

That is quite literally what is passed.

If the souls and bodies of individuals can be downloaded from an information bank that perfectly replicates said individual, and the soul and body are both backward compatible with information being the conduit for said transposition, than it is a blatant conclusion that spirit and matter are both made of information. Matter is reality (physical) so I'm not sure how you would divorce the two from each other, and the other side of this is the spiritual reality which would include things like souls.

What do you mean when you say "CE, the body, and soul" are information but not reality? If that were the case, how would Gojo be able to use his Cursed technique to bring mathematical abstracts to impact reality?

The issue is that you're combining matter with "body", they are not portrayed or stated as the same within verse, idk where you got that from. And when I say ce, the body and soul are information, I mean they themselves are information but reality, the world, is not made of information in the verse or considered that.

And look at it this way, why would Sukuna need to change his target to the world if everything is already fundamentally information when his slashes can already target fundamental information? There would be no targeting there as he already targets it as he does with cursed spirits.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The issue is that you're combining matter with "body", they are not portrayed or stated as the same within verse, idk where you got that from.

Arkenis...You realize that a body is made up of matter, correct? A person is just a collection of molecules, which are a collection of atoms, so on and so forth until the most fundamental quantum parts of physics. If a body that has already decomposed can be perfectly replicated from information, in so much that Tojis heavenly restriction (an abstract feature of his body) and Cursed techniques can be passed over, this means the physical matter of the verse most also be fundamental to information.

Toji's body information then proceeded to replicate his soul, which is why her overtook her grandson's soul, and why Toji could later than remember his son and kill himself, despite the conditions set upon by his body. This backwards compatibility clearly outlines that information is the fundamental building block between the two.

And when I say ce, the body and soul are information, I mean they themselves are information but reality, the world, is not made of information in the verse or considered that.

Arkenis, how could bodies be made of information, but reality?

We know that the soul and body normally cannot interact, which is why Mahito is so dangerous in the first place. Mahito for instance, can utilize his soul to shapeshift his body information intro replicating non organic things such as metal. How would he be able to do this if matter is not subject to information?

You also didn't answer about Gojo. If reality is not fundamentally information, then how can Gojo use cursed energy (which is information) to manipulate reality at a fundamental level? He's doing so with math because of information.

And look at it this way, why would Sukuna need to change his target to the world if everything is already fundamentally information when his slashes can already target fundamental information? There would be no targeting there as he already targets it as he does with cursed spirits.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Information is fundamental to souls and matter but that doesn't mean souls and matter at the level of reality act the same as information. That's like saying why can't I punch a lepton since I can break a wooden board with my fist and the wood is made up of sub-atomic particles.

Sukuna needed to change is target to all of existence because that was the only way he could contain infinity in order to actually hit Gojo given that infinity is omnipresent in reality.

 

[Arkenis]

I think the misunderstanding is in the Viz trans for saying "physical information" they aren't necessarily wrong but raw trans is

にくたい じょうほう たましい じょうほう 肉体の情報から 魂の情報を 複製するんです ふくせい
The information of the soul is replicated from the information of the body.

からだ体


Within this trans's context, this is in reference to the person's body where Yaga takes information from the original person. He did this for Kusakabe's sister where he took the information of her son where the body's information is used to create the soul information thus creating the person again basically. This has nothing to do matter's information.

 

[Arkenis]

You also didn't answer about Gojo. If reality is not fundamentally information, then how can Gojo use cursed energy (which is information) to manipulate reality at a fundamental level? He's doing so with math because of information.

Different existences can interact with different existences. This happens all the time in series, it does not mean they now are the same existences. And gojo isn't literally interacting with reality on a fundamental level, he's bringing the infinity that's all around them and making it interact with the world.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

I think the misunderstanding is in the Viz trans for saying "physical information" they aren't necessarily wrong but raw trans is

にくたい じょうほう たましい じょうほう 肉体の情報から 魂の情報を 複製するんです ふくせい
The information of the soul is replicated from the information of the body.

からだ体


Within this trans's context, this is in reference to the person's body where Yaga takes information from the original person. He did this for Kusakabe's sister where he took the information of her son where the body's information is used to create the soul information thus creating the person again basically. This has nothing to do matter's information.

Physical information is correct for reasons I explained above. You can also see this term used the databook entry I posted above for Ogami's technique.

 

[Arkenis]

databook entry I posted above for Ogami's technique.

She used body information. We know she used body information cause she had to get a piece of Toji's body. So again, physical≠body.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

She used body information. We know she used body information cause she had to get a piece of Toji's body. So again, physical≠body.

Yes Arkenis, a body is made up of matter. A body is a material things that is physical. She needs the body because that is the blueprint material for replication and the condition for her ability. Also you are incorrect, here is the raw where she blatantly says physical information and also creates a clear dichotomy between spiritual and physical information as expressed also in the databook.
Translation

What do you mean... I have only given up "physical information" yet!! //That's right, in order to prevent such unforeseen situations from happening, I have decided not to give up all soul information!!

If you can create souls from physical info, and physical things such as bodies from information, and Mahito can change physical aspects via soul manip information shenanigans, then information is clearly the fundamental aspect ontologically.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

the only info type 2 in JJk is the body and the soul nothing else, based on using the word "information" which could be used here for other things like DNA, brainwave, personality... not necessarily the fundamental info that made up reality and the only feats of doing this is Mahito and that old lady.

CE is just the negative emotions manifesting as energy then that energy become a cursed spirit who are made from it. so NPI is enough to interact with them.

everything in the verse come from CE like techniques and abilities including their law manipulation that is basically just CE rules.

 

[Phoenks]

Match reached grace.

 

[Passersby]

yeah, still ain't convinced regular space cut would slash trough infinity mainly because i have no idea it should even work


space slashes don't ignore distance and if i remember gojo's ability correctly, his infinity makes infinite distance between the attack that's threatening him and himself, how would space that's been cut even behave? and is it still "space"? does the concept of distance even work here?

would infinity just seperate the slashed space and gojo?


...i feel like i'm overthinking stuff and i hate thinking since i'm an idiot so whatever, incon fra