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Saint Seiya High Godly Regenerationn

We're wasting time since, even if we accept the concept part, they still wouldn't have High Godly because iirc, it'd be Type 1 concept stuff instead of 2 or 3 which is required for High Godly.
 
@Sera

So do we need to do anything here, or can we close this?
 
We should probably wait on Matt, for a little while longer.
 
Sera EX said:
We're wasting time since, even if we accept the concept part, they still wouldn't have High Godly because iirc, it'd be Type 1 concept stuff instead of 2 or 3 which is required for High Godly.
Click to expand...
Didn't you say it's type 2 or 3 conceptual Erasure on the revision thread? Wouldn't this change as well when the revisions for conceptual manipulation come?

Edit: if it is type 1 conceptual Erasure. I think the wiki should be alerted since many characters with type 2 or 3 conceptual Erasure (then Regen) got high godly..


Screenshot 20200114-091127
 
I said type 2/3 conceptual erasure is needed for high godly.
 
@Sera

Does the definition need to be modified again?
 
Maybe, or perhaps a note would be better. Essentially the " concept" in verse has to be the source of everything (so in verses where concepts > a disembodied consciousness like a soul is actually the case, rather than just assumed).
 
Thank you for the evaluation. I suppose that their regenerations should not be upgraded then.
 
Sera EX said:
Maybe, or perhaps a note would be better. Essentially the " concept" in verse has to be the source of everything (so in verses where concepts > a disembodied consciousness like a soul is actually the case, rather than just assumed).
Click to expand...
Another question I have is. How does acasualty type 2, and 4 be affected if they are erased??

And the source of everything, or a concept where everything in verse participates in it?
 
I don't really get how we treat acausality anymore.

And specifically concepts being the primary source of existence, the most fundamental basic principle of the verse so to speak.
 
Sera EX said:
I don't really get how we treat acausality anymore.

And specifically concepts being the primary source of existence, the most fundamental basic principle of the verse so to speak.
Click to expand...

Can being a primary source of existence be only 1 concept or multiple?

For example the concept of death for an entire verse? If it goes then death no longer exist for anyone in the verse.

Or all life stems from a single conceptual origin for the entire verse. That concept of life itself??

Or is it a concept that specifically deals with only existence itself? Examples being planets, Multiverses, universes, etc?
 
"Concepts" as a whole being the foundation of reality (not just one specific concept). In other words, everything is downstream or comes from concepts. Souls, life, death, the universe, etc.

An example of what I mean by "primary" is information in I/O. In that verse everything at its most basic is information. Data is the most fundamental aspect of existence. Everything is data.

So in terms of concepts, everything in the verse in its most basic fundamental nature would be conceptual, often platonic btw.
 
If a character has no present, or any future. If a character is also indepenedent of time (Separate character for that one) and they have mid godly regen. Temporal erasure won't effect them right? How do you prove high godly earsure then? (assume that they had mid godly under the old system)

Also characters who are the Past, present, and future, and characters who are omnipresent in the past present and future

Edit 3: What about characters who transcend time?
 
Sera EX said:
I don't agree with this.
Only the Primordial Gods are conceptual beings. All other gods simply rule realms and have dominion over certain aspects of reality like death, time, war, etc. They represent them, sure, but not in the way primordial gods personify them.

For example, Chronos (Primordial God) is the divine personification of time, while Cronus (Titan) has dominion over time.

The gods just have Mid-Godly, while the primordials likely have High-Godly as they had to be sealed away and couldn't even be destroyed by great gods like Zeus.
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Do the primordial still have your vote for "Likely High Godly?" because they are the personification of their concept + Mid Godly regen = High Godly??

Also, there is 2 more Primordials. Abzu the God of the Primordial Darkness, and Creation, and Saturn (Who is basically the animes version of Chronos)
 
In StS, the primordial gods (Uranus, Gea and Pontus) do not embody their concept or domain, so I do not agree with the High-Godly Regenerationn for these gods or any other god. The gods have is only Mid-Godly Regenerationn.

An example:
- Uranus is not sky in this universe, because he only created the sky or clouds (domain of the god) and mountains.

- Cronus did not fight with a god in the form of the sky, he only fights against a god with physical form and the appearance of a giant.

- Uranus is dead in StS and the sky or clouds did not disappear after the battle.
- Gea is not the Earth, because she is a goddess with physical form and has the appearance of a normal woman. Gea only created his domain (that's why she is the mother of the Earth), but she does not embody the Earth or something similar.

Therefore, these gods do not embody their domain or concept in the universe of StS, probably in mythology it is so, but in the universe of StS it is not so.

The only gods that embody his domain in StS are Chronus (the god that transcends), Hades (as shown in Episode.G Assassin), Eris (debatable, because I have my doubts about this), Tartarus (debatable, because I have my doubts about this), Apsu (for the anime, he is the embodiment of the darkness of the beginning and his body is only darkness) and Saturn.

Probably, Lugh and Balor by the description of these gods in TLC.

Sage explains that they are different from a goddess who has a physical form like Athena, because they are part of the earth and cycle of life.

Sage: Unlike our corporeal goddess...
Sage: These gods are fused directly with the earth where they reside.
Sage: They are part of the cycle of life, but they are very powerfu.

 
the characters can have defined, and real form, and still be a type 1 abstract existence, and i also believe "Sky" is representative of "heaven" in which Cronus took over after the death of Uranus. Now weather it was through just Concetpual manipulation, or abstract existence is irrelevant to this, or not important.

There is also these...

Cosmo is Balance. It keeps order, and Harmony in the universe. I am the Endless Darkness. I am Cosmo - This was Cronus (Saint Seiya) https://i.imgur.com/VVA0Mor.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VbBEPSC.jpg

Saturn states he is Eternity (Time) when fighting the main protagonist(s), and Saturn is the god of All time, and space. https://i.imgur.com/aF4fArV.jpg https://i.imgur.com/4KiDwM7.png (Cruncyroll has a protection aganist screenshots hence the black screen)

Abzu is the God of Creation, Destruction, and Darkness. https://i.imgur.com/8Cilfpq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/odfpQza.jpg https://i.imgur.com/29IiGQj.jpg He was shown to be Darkness https://i.imgur.com/aHpGuZd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tpJ5n5V.jpg https://i.imgur.com/wC8hgqZ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YzR19h1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Cckgmi7.jpg

The Titan Okaneos controls the perpetual flow of all things that have a flow https://i.imgur.com/QhbbdPx.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nrcDyZj.jpg; and he also states that he is the "Perpetual flow/current" https://i.imgur.com/LFDPI54.jpg

The Gods can Take a Temporary Forms https://i.imgur.com/R7VO7pI.png

The body of a god is a sacred existence in which a human can never interfere with due to the symbols of their power https://i.imgur.com/q9hsZDJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/UX8iSwN.jpg

There are different forms of Faith, and Beliefs. Their quantities correspond to the number of gods that exist in the world. https://i.imgur.com/fdxZdEX.jpg


Objects created by peoples/Human's feelings can never be destroyed. https://i.imgur.com/FrhLVny.jpg

anyways.. @Sera EX .. do you think the primordials still have High Godly regen?
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
the characters can have defined, and real form, and still be a type 1 abstract existence, and i also believe "Sky" is representative of "heaven" in which Cronus took over after the death of Uranus. Now weather it was through just Concetpual manipulation, or abstract existence is irrelevant to this, or not important.
There is also these...

Cosmo is Balance. It keeps order, and Harmony in the universe. I am the Endless Darkness. I am Cosmo - This was Cronus (Saint Seiya) https://i.imgur.com/VVA0Mor.jpg https://i.imgur.com/VbBEPSC.jpg

The Titan Okaneos controls the perpetual flow of all things that have a flow https://i.imgur.com/QhbbdPx.jpg https://i.imgur.com/nrcDyZj.jpg; and he also states that he is the "Perpetual flow/current" https://i.imgur.com/LFDPI54.jpg
Click to expand...
That's right, but these characters never embodied their domain or concept. Uranus created the sky or the clouds in the sky, he controls his domain, but he does not embody the sky in this universe, for example Poseidon controls the oceans, but he does not embody these oceans.

The Titan Okeanos only shows that a god can control the domain that it represents, although now it is the domain of Poseidon, the great god of the oceans.

I agree with Apsu and Saturn as gods that embody their domain in the universe of StS (anime universe), but these are different gods (they are even gods of another culture).
 
@Sera & Matthew

What do we need to do here?
 
The quote from Zeus in Episode G Assassin does not refer to a concept or anything like that, this is not made explicit and does not even give ideas about it, in the context it is made explicit that even without souls and bodies they still exist, and their will and core reside in a currently unknown place, which makes it possible for them to always return from their receptacles or with some will to be able to manifest themselves on the physical plane, but without powers. That, I believe, is Abstract Existence Type 2.

Hades also does not command tartarus, one of the good reasons for this is that gaia is a conscious and physical entity, just like uranus, and the existence of a typhoon shows that tartarus can also reproduce, which with my logical reasoning said above, it is clear that like gaia he lives in his own domain.

I would like to suggest something, I do not know if you guys noticed, but I believe that Pegasus is a possible Conceptual Existence, this scan proves this, the context of it is clear, without the pegasus no human can perform infinite miracles and cannot save the earth forever, but with his presence that is guided by time and destiny, the "hero" of humans can always save humanity and to seal him, hades sealed him where he never reincarnated where time never turns forward or backward. I believe with that he has a passive "Fate Manipulation" that even the gods cannot avoid and that affects not only him but the whole of humanity since without him, the dimension of the aiolos was totally destroyed with only him managing to live.
 
Archaron said:
The quote from Zeus in Episode G Assassin does not refer to a concept or anything like that, this is not made explicit and does not even give ideas about it, in the context it is made explicit that even without souls and bodies they still exist, and their will and core reside in a currently unknown place, which makes it possible for them to always return from their receptacles or with some will to be able to manifest themselves on the physical plane, but without powers. That, I believe, is Abstract Existence Type 2.

Hades also does not command tartarus, one of the good reasons for this is that gaia is a conscious and physical entity, just like uranus, and the existence of a typhoon shows that tartarus can also reproduce, which with my logical reasoning said above, it is clear that like gaia he lives in his own domain.

I would like to suggest something, I do not know if you guys noticed, but I believe that Pegasus is a possible Conceptual Existence, this scan proves this, the context of it is clear, without the pegasus no human can perform infinite miracles and cannot save the earth forever, but with his presence that is guided by time and destiny, the "hero" of humans can always save humanity and to seal him, hades sealed him where he never reincarnated where time never turns forward or backward. I believe with that he has a passive "Fate Manipulation" that even the gods cannot avoid and that affects not only him but the whole of humanity since without him, the dimension of the aiolos was totally destroyed with only him managing to live.
Click to expand...
This is a really interesting interpretation, and I agree
 
Archaron said:
Hades also does not command tartarus, one of the good reasons for this is that gaia is a conscious and physical entity, just like uranus, and the existence of a typhoon shows that tartarus can also reproduce, which with my logical reasoning said above, it is clear that like gaia he lives in his own domain.
Click to expand...
Hades commands Tartarus as the great god of the world of the dead in the universe of StS, the god can free Aioria from the depths of Tartarus and returns him to Earth (last chapter of Episode G ). Aiolos only narrates the myth of Typhoon in the universe of StS, a myth that says that Typhon was born of Gea and Tartarus, but Gea can create gods or children with the matter of the world (she created Uranus and Pontus in this way). In the following chapters (and Assassin) it was shown that Tartarus is a place, another part of the world of the dead controlled by Hades,a place where some mortal souls live after death , and the world of the dead (Elysium, Underworld, Tartarus, Shadow of the Underworld and Yomotsu) was destroyed by the power of the Black Core and the attack of Zeus when Hades cannot stop the destruction.
 
Eganergo said:
Would the regen revision change anything here?
Click to expand...
That was origianlly what this was for.

Gods being abstract nature with their existence being intertwined with the concept they represent/rule over. Weather it be Reliant immortlaity or they are the concept. For example, Hades being the God of Death, and the underworld. He dies so did his underworld and death for humans. but he comes back later.
 
Let's say I do agree with all the other stuff outside of regen.

The Episode G stuff (the more impressive stuff so far) need to be on it's own page. Episode G is it's own continuity after all, so it shouldn't be on their main canon files. I've noticed for example, Shura has Episode G keys instead of a separate page. Why? There's contradictory lore and a large distinction of abilities between the main series and Epsiode G. Same with Saintia Sho, the anime only Soul of Gold, etc.

If we separate the continuities for other verses, we should do the same for SS.
 
I think that Sera makes sense, but somebody would have to be willing to handle the work involved.
 
Sera EX said:
Let's say I do agree with all the other stuff outside of regen.
The Episode G stuff (the more impressive stuff so far) need to be on it's own page. Episode G is it's own continuity after all, so it shouldn't be on their main canon files. I've noticed for example, Shura has Episode G keys instead of a separate page. Why? There's contradictory lore and a large distinction of abilities between the main series and Epsiode G. Same with Saintia Sho, the anime only Soul of Gold, etc.

If we separate the continuities for other verses, we should do the same for SS.
Click to expand...
Episode.G is a weaker continuity, because it is the past of the main universe, the strongest continuity is the Classic Manga, Next Dimension and Assassin (because one of the universes is a possible future of the main timeline).

Shura of Episode.G is only a younger version (a more weak version) of Shura in the main universe of the series, therefore, it does not need a different page. Shura of Assassin (protagonist) must have his own page or a different key on the page, because it is a version of Shura of a different (unknown) universe of the multiverse with several power ups that it obtains in the Future World. However, this will be reviewed in future editions.

The basic skills of the characters are no different in the universes of the multiverse (franchise), because even the authors (Okada, Kuori and Shiori) wrote a joint work for the franchise that is the novel of Golden Age (a story between the Poseidon Arc and Hades Arc) and a comedy crossover with the three protagonists.
 
Only assassin's should get a separate profile for gold saiints. Hyoga states that the gold saints brought to their world were stronger than their previous selves, also Aiolia is a young teen iirc in assassin's

Destiny, zero, episode G, classic series, next Dimension, and assassin's are all the same timeline/"existence"

Also, there maybe far less issues with consistency than you guys believe. There isn't any,or not a lot, of contradictions to lore.

Classic/original series has scaling with Zeus, and a possible "Infinitely above baseline 2-C" feat that was overlooked, and There's also lots of other 2-C feats, and plenty of Low 2-C/3-A feats. I been preparing for the day when AP revisions come.
 
I agree with Sera and Ant, including I'm already preparing a massive revision for all the profile of saint seiya, and I've already architected several profiles as well.
 
Antvasima said:
I think that Sera makes sense, but somebody would have to be willing to handle the work involved.
Click to expand...
I could start with this work, but as TheUpgradeManHaHaxD explains it is just separating some pages and reviewing some skills.
 
Only gods wouldn't be affected unless the verse has some explanation for it

Obvsiouly the Bronze saints were given gold cloths so they would be completely different + They are older and more experienced as these events take place after next dimesion

the only questionable one is seiya, but the Gold God cloth can be separated too
 
TheUpgradeManHaHaxD said:
Obvsiouly the Bronze saints were given gold cloths so they would be completely different + They are older and more experienced as these events take place after next dimesion
Click to expand...
Yes, the protagonists (adults) like the new Gold Saints should have their own page, because they are older and some have new skills. This is similar to the pages of Naruto Part I (Kid), Part II (Teenager) and New Era (Adult).
 
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