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Saint Seiya High Godly Regenerationn

Since this thread has been derailed enough. If you guys give me a little bit of time. I can make a thread discussing AP in the verse for this. I will break it up into parts. A Part 1, and a Part 2. Part 1 focusing on Gold saints, and part 2 being Gods

(And those who scale to both)

This thread was concluded a while ago and never closed. Is it safe to close this thread?
 
Alonik said:
That's just a feat for Minos. Besides Hyoga is stronger than Camus, so we have a complete basis of not being an Hyperbole of Hyoga.
Click to expand...
No, because it's just a hit of a Kyoto that does not stand out in destructive power. And Hyoga only uses the description of the technique, which is only a myth, because this is never confirmed in the manga, even a warrior of the level of a gold can destroy it with a blow.

It is impressive that you do not accept a clear hyperbole, when you say that a description by a character of a fight is a hyperbole or the author showing that a weakened Suikyo can destroy the weapons of libra and libra cloth is a contradiction.
 
I'm already preparing a gigantic thread for Saint Seiya, I apologize for the irrelevant conversation just to show the inconsistencies of the profiles between Kurumada and Okada.
 
Well, just to clarify the Taizen describes that the weapons of libra increase their power through the user's cosmos.

Como sao feitas do mesmo material que as armaduras, conseguem armazenar a luz dentro delas e o seu poder vai aumentando conforme o cosmos se eleva.

The version of Taizen translated in Portuguese, Spanish and Italian describes that the G.E. de Saga has the power of an exploding galaxy.

 
Interesting, but why did you cut the part that says that even with the saints increase his cosmos, the weapon can smash stars?

People who are not Brazilian may not have understood seeing in the scan, but I saw it.
 
For those who are not Brazilian or don't understand portuguese, here a translation of Scan.

I6e9Izk
The weapons of the Libra Armor, the power that smashes the stars
The weapons the Gold Saint's can use are engaged in the Libra Armor. As they are made of the same material as armor, they can store the light inside them and their power increases as cosmo rises. They are worthy of being called secret weapons capable of shattering the stars.

Even in taizen the Libra Weapons are described with the user's elevated cosmos being able to shattering stars, suggest something higher than that, is NLF.

So, this is my last imput here.
 
The description is complete in the image. Just point out the most important thing, because weapons increase their power with the cosmos, just as armor increases their power. The power to destroy the stars is only the base force of the weapons, because even in the hands of a Bronze without domain of the Seventh these weapons can destroy stars.

In the image they describe that their power increases with the user's cosmos, because they are made of the same material as the Cloths. This is not an NLF, because it is only claimed that its power can destroy the stars and can increase to an unknown level with the user's cosmos.

This confirms what is shown in ND, where a weakened Suikyo can destroy the weapons of libra and libra cloth used by a young Dohko.
 
The Japanese Raw of Taizen confirms that the G.E. de Saga has a power equivalent to the explosion of a galaxy.

G.E. Saga in Taizen
µ£ÇÕñºÚÖÉÒü½Òü¥ÒüºÚ½ÿÒéüÒüƒÕ░ÅÕ«çÕ«ÖÒéÆÒÇüþø©µëïÒü½ÕÅ®ÒüìÒüñÒüæÒéïÒéÁÒé¼µ£ÇÕñºÒü«Õ┐൫║µèÇÒüºÒÇüÒüØÒü« Ú®Üþò░þÜäþá┤ÕúèÕèøÒü»Úèǵ▓│Òü«þá┤µ╗àÒü½ÒüíÕî╣µòÁÒüÖÒéïÒü¿Þ¿ÇÒéÅÒéîÒéïÒÇé

The version of Taizen translated in Portuguese, Spanish and Italian describes that the G.E. de Saga has the power of an exploding galaxy.

https://imgur.com/a/y2C7dLf

Taizen explain the G.E. It has the power of the galaxy exploding and weapons of libra increase its power with the user's cosmos. This ends the debate.
 
And Taizen contradicts herself. As I have shown before, then the level of "Destroy galaxies" is decreased to "Destroy her stars".

And that's on the Microcosm scale yet, as I had said before, just confirmed what I said.

  • µ£ÇÕñºÚÖÉÒü½Òü¥ÒüºÚ½ÿÒéüÒüƒÕ░ÅÕ«çÕ«ÖÒéÆÒÇü
  • The microcosm that has been enhanced to the maximum,
Libra Weapons increase her powers to the level to destroy stars, nothing less, and nothing more.
 
So this thread is about Regen right?

Only thing that I've seen that hasn't been argued against that was brought up in the middle of the thread is @Archaro wondering about Seiya possibly being a Conceptual existence of Hope with passive Fate manipulation and Miracle creation, which is a good idea for a revision but we haven't agreed on if the Regen revision goes through or not and now the thread is becoming a canon and power debate...
 
A big fail.

The microcosm is the cosmos (the energy that Saga and all StS characters use, the cosmos or microcosm inside his body), that's why they describe that Saga raises his cosmos or microcosm to the maximum to use the technique (as it appears in all translations, the translation is correct).

ÒÇÉÕ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö´╝êÒé│Òé╣Òâó）ÒÇæ

õ¢ôÕåàÒü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÕ«çÕ«ÖÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝Òü«ÒüôÒü¿ÒéÆÒüäÒüåÒÇé ÞüûÚùÿÕú½Òü»õ¢ôÕåàÒü«Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«ÖÒéÆþêåþÖ║ÒüòÒüøÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü½ÒéêÒüúÒüªÒÇüÚƒ│ÚǃÒü½Õî╣µòÁÒüÖÒéïÚǃÒüòÒü«µï│ÒéƵö¥ÒüíÒÇüþë®Þ│¬ÒéÆÕăաÉÒâ¼ÒâÖÒâ½Òüºþá┤ÕúèÒüÖÒéïÒü¬Òü®Ú®Üþò░þÜäÒü¬ÕèøÒéƵîüÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé

The basic level of Libra's weapons is the power to destroy stars, but they increase their power with the user's cosmos such as armor.

This confirms that you don't know the series.
 
The micro cosmos is not the cosmos, this is a question of having become accustomed to american/brazilian translation.

Masami Kurumada speaks of Micro Cosmo in the feeling of being a micro universe that holds the character's body, so he can create micro big bangs, and micro bursts of galaxies, and a lot other micro-activities.

I can use two simple examples of when Cosmo was worked on a scale of its actual size:

1. Eschatos Dunamis
2. Bronze Saints with Omega
 
No, the microcosm is the cosmos, it even appears in this way on the official website of the franchise. The microcosm or cosmos is only the energy used by the Saints or the warriors of this universe.
 
The basic level of Libra's weapons is the power to destroy stars, but they increase their power with the user's cosmos such as armor.

No. The Basic level of them is not a star, this has never been established, it's just speculation.

Unlike your statement, it is stated that when the saints combined and increased his cosmos to the maximum, the Libra Weapons can become Star level, not that she is Star on the basis.

Yes, the Libra Weapons, with them all broken after their MAXIMUM capacity was used, was only described as a star to multi star.

There's nothing to force Libra Weapon above the star level/Multi Star level, maximum capacity is that, and they break because they can't stand energy greater than that.
 
Diinou HotHead said:
Usually, Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö would have Òé│Òé╣Òâó furigana accompanying it.
So yeah, it IS Cosmo.
Click to expand...
This is going to be my last post on this thread, and just to show how Kurumada works.

Actually, no. Example:

The translation of this is

  • "So to speak, your body is also a microcosm born with the Big Bang!!"
On this entire page Kurumada used the same "cosmo" kanjis to write "microcosm" ("little universe", literally), but did not indicate the reading "cosmo", but rather the normal reading "shōuchü"
 
Um....they didn't break from the amount of energy the Saints were putting in.

They broke because they were hitting the Mainstay Pillar, a pillar supported by the cosmos of a god and explictly stated to be universal in durability.

Reread the context of that scene.


"If we do that, your BODY WILL BE SMASHED TO BITS AGAINST THAT PILLAR" followed by the page you showed, where they state that's what happened the Libra weapons.

Then Seiya mentions a Saint "elevating his cosmos to the max " which means before they WEREN'T and just using the weapons as weapons.
 
At no time did I say they broke because of their cosmos, I said that even when libra weapons broken their maximum level was star.

Please don't make strawman with my argument.

Then Seiya mentions a Saint "elevating his cosmos to the max " which means before they WEREN'T and just using the weapons as weapons.

They didn't even use the weapons after that. They just remembered that they could destroy the pillar by using atomic destruction to ignore the durability of the pillar.

Seiya didn't destroy him with the Libra Weapons, but creating a miracle.
 
For more evidence. Notice when Seiya and Hyoga defeat their opponents by burning their cosmos to the realm of the 7th sense, their cloths glow gold but return back to normal by the time they use the weapons just minutes later (no sparkles on the cloth, different look than the weapons)


This indicates they aren't burning their csmos to the level of the 7th sense and are just using the weapons at base
 
The official website describes quite well how the microcosm or cosmo of the Saints works.

ÒÇÉÕ░ÅÕ«çÕ«Ö´╝êÒé│Òé╣Òâó）ÒÇæ

õ¢ôÕåàÒü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïÕ«çÕ«ÖÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝Òü«ÒüôÒü¿ÒéÆÒüäÒüåÒÇé ÞüûÚùÿÕú½Òü»õ¢ôÕåàÒü«Õ░ÅÕ«çÕ«ÖÒéÆþêåþÖ║ÒüòÒüøÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü½ÒéêÒüúÒüªÒÇüÚƒ│ÚǃÒü½Õî╣µòÁÒüÖÒéïÚǃÒüòÒü«µï│ÒéƵö¥ÒüíÒÇüþë®Þ│¬ÒéÆÕăաÉÒâ¼ÒâÖÒâ½Òüºþá┤ÕúèÒüÖÒéïÒü¬Òü®Ú®Üþò░þÜäÒü¬ÕèøÒéƵîüÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé

The information on the official site is more important than the theory of a fan, which has no support for what is shown in the story.

Even the translation of that scene says that Saga raises its microcosm to the maximum, it is clear that they refer to the cosmos or microcosm, the energy used by the Saints.

Insisting on this does not change what is described on the page or what is described in the series itself.
 
Alonik said:
At no time did I say they broke because of their cosmos, I said that even when libra weapons broken their maximum level was star.
Please don't make strawman with my argument.
Click to expand...
I'm not. Maybe you INTENDED to say that. But what you LITERALLY said was "There's nothing to force Libra Weapon above the star level/Multi Star level, maximum capacity is that, and they break because they can't stand energy greater than that."
 
This indicates they aren't burning their csmos to the level of the 7th sense and are just using the weapons at base

And yet the Libra weapons broke down and were just said as Multi Star.
 
But, that's not what you said, nor how that sentence breaks down in English.

If you say "They broke because they can't stand energy greater than star level" when someone states "They can be boosted above their baseline star level with cosmos" the only interpretation of that is you refuting that they can not be boosted with cosmos above star level and would break if someone tried.

That's....kind of how conversations work. I hate to bring my job (English teacher and writer) into this, but next time, try making your meaning clearer as the way you phrased it has a completely opposite meaning of your intent
 
I think you got it wrong, because you didn't realize I was talking about the energy variation, that's a basic thing, which we have here to debate levels.

I recommend you take a look at the page of Attack Potency, and the tiers I was constantly mentioning in my comment.
 
Alonik said:
This indicates they aren't burning their csmos to the level of the 7th sense and are just using the weapons at base
And yet the Libra weapons broke down and were just said as Multi Star.
Click to expand...
Yes. They broke down and were said to be multi-star. In Base, with no cosmos added. As shown above, they can increase with cosmos.

Hell, in the same arc, Shun's chains, which are FAR weaker than the Libra Weapons, jump up to Gold Saint Level when he infuses 7th Sense level cosmos into them

and in Episode G: Assassin, Shiryu uses a cosmos facimile (weaker than the real thing) of the Libra Shield to block Gram Sigurd's attacks, despite revived Capricorn Shura thinking it was impossible.and calling Gram Sigurd's attacks "beyond anything imaginable".

 
Yes. They broke down and were said to be multi-star. In Base, with no cosmos added. As shown above, they can increase with cosmos.

They don't go beyond High 4-C. You should have read the scans I sent showing that they combined their three cosmos to increase the power of the Libra Weapons, and in the end they were described only as High 4-C.

It wasn't a base. This is false, and just keep repeating something that's already been shown otherwise, is just unreliable.

Hell, in the same arc, Shun's chains, which are FAR weaker than the Libra Weapons, jump up to Gold Saint Level when he infuses 7th Sense level cosmos into them

That means absolutely nothing.

and in Episode G: Assassin, Shiryu uses a cosmos facimile (weaker than the real thing) of the Libra Shield to block Gram Sigurd's attacks, despite revived Capricorn Shura thinking it was impossible.and calling Gram Sigurd's attacks "beyond anything imaginable".

Episode G is one thing, this here is limited only to the classic, as has been talked about dozens of times up there. This conversation was just to show inconsistencies that nerf episode G.
 
1. I actually did read those scans, and you still haven't countered my point about them provably not being at seventh sense as their Cloths had not turned gold, there's no evidence of them going 7th sense, and it is only AFTER this that Seiya mentions "burning our cosmos to the maximum"

That actually does mean something as it shows 7th Sense Cosmos amps artifacts far beyond their original power.

3. Episode G is not "it's own thing". It's refered to as "Seito Gaiden" which means "Legitimate sequel".
 
Alonik said:
I think you got it wrong, because you didn't realize I was talking about the energy variation, that's a basic thing, which we have here to debate levels.
I recommend you take a look at the page of Attack Potency, and the tiers I was constantly mentioning in my comment.
Click to expand...
No, I completely understood what you meant. You're simply wrong. As shown above, simply adding cosmos to objects makes them jump up several tiers and the saints factually were not adding seventh sense cosmos to the Libra Weapons when they described them as "Star busting"

As shown by a bronze chain jumping from Bronze Saint Level to Gold Saint Level simply by adding 7th sense cosmos to it, or Shiryu's cosmos facimile of the shield tanking attacks from Gram Sigurd, a guy who was scaring Shura. Remember, at this point, Shura is far beyond his teenage years when he already beat Galaxy Kreios and cut apart his Aster armor, which was stronger than his Aster shield that cut stars.

Shiryu's Libra Shield was stated to be far greater than his cosmos facimile of it, and was tanking multiple attacks from Gram Sigurd.

 
I actually did read those scans, and you still haven't countered my point about them provably not being at seventh sense as their Cloths had not turned gold, there's no evidence of them going 7th sense, and it is only AFTER this that Seiya mentions "burning our cosmos to the maximum"

I understand what is the problem here. First, you're wrong and at the same time you're right. But this can be answered by the simple question you raised

  1. provably not being at seventh sense as their Cloths had not turned gold
The point is, the bronze cloths were revived by the blood of the gold saints, and the bronze cloths turned golden when Seiya and his friends burned their cosmos

The problem is that Seiya on the Libra weapon issue, they were not with the Bronze Cloths, they were wearing the libra cloth (Shiryu), Aquarius cloth (Hyoga) and Seiya was wearing the armor of Aiolos, the Sagittarius Cloth.

Pegasus Cloth was destroyed by poseidon, and the seiya was burning its seventh sense.

After that, why didn't it have to burn the seventh sense for Seiya to be able to gold his armor? it's for the simple reasons they were already golden, because they we're golden cloths.

Now, you ask, why Seiya was using seventh sense with the Libra Weapons.

The seventh sense was being burned, after all, the seventh sense is simply the cosmos. And seiya was burning the cosmo (Seventh Sense).

Literally before they started using the Libras Weapon, they burned their seventh sense (cosmo) to go through poseidon.

So they were using their potential in the Libra Weapons.

And again, even with all this, they were shattered was still only cited as high level 4-C.

End, my last comment on this thread.
 
I would appreciate if somebody can provide a summary of the discussion and conclusions so far. Thanks.
 
The discussion is based on Sera's request to divide the profiles by works. I agreed with her and showed even more of why the profiles needed to be divided, so we started debating the mistakes of current profiles, and because Kurumada's writing is inconsistent with Okada's writing. The conversation derailed so much that I had to explain up to almost the entire Poseidon Arc.
 
Okay. As I mentioned earlier, I am fine with if you split up the profile, as long as it is done properly, but you would have to do so properly, both in terms of good justifications for the statistics, proper editing structures, all the relevant standard categories added at the bottom of the pages, and tabbers for the specific characters added at the tops of the pages.
 
Ant, I can do this, but at the moment it's impossible to simply separate the profiles. I'm preparing an great revision for Saint Seiya, and until at next week I'll finish it.

But the problem is that the current profiles have been building everything at each other's base, separating one, it's going to get worse.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. As I mentioned earlier, I am fine with if you split up the profile, as long as it is done properly, but you would have to do so properly, both in terms of good justifications for the statistics, proper editing structures, all the relevant standard categories added at the bottom of the pages, and tabbers for the specific characters added at the tops of the pages.
Click to expand...
There is a disagreemenet about this by multiple people who are debating it. This issue will likely become something that will need staff appovral (as it might be controversial) and probably all knowlegable memebers. Though i don't think its a good idea to rush it right now as Matt is busy Irl. This went from a talk about Regenerationn to Canon to a talk about Attack potency. It would be easier if a new threads was written out at a later time since this thread that was originally about regen somehow turned into something different via derailment...


But as many people have demonstrated - There is no "Inconsistencies." The only thing that needs new profiles/Key/Dividers is G/A Gold Saints, and the other works are cross canon scalable that do not need divided up into separate profiles.
 
I agree about that this shouldn't be rushed, and that it needs Matthew's attention, and since he is busy with very important real life issues, it will have to wait for a while.
 
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